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Should Hawks extend THJ or DS this summer?

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Re: Should Hawks extend THJ or DS this summer? 

Post#41 » by Skyhawk1 » Tue Sep 20, 2016 2:35 am

I would wait and not extend either player. Both have not proved anything to make me consider an extension. McCollum is a proven NBA elite talent, Giannis is a very good basketball player with terrific upside. Dennis has shown flashes that he can be special,just not consistent, his ego concerns me.
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Re: Should Hawks extend THJ or DS this summer? 

Post#42 » by jayu70 » Tue Sep 20, 2016 1:21 pm

Unless it's a GREAT deal for the Hawks - I would prefer they wait. His Q.O. next off season is $3.8 mil, if he signs an extension it counts against the cap limiting the available capspace.
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Re: Should Hawks extend THJ or DS this summer? 

Post#43 » by Jamaaliver » Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:35 pm

xccelerate wrote:Dennis @ $25m/per would horrific. He needs to make something close to Bazemore


D21 wrote:But Giannis has played a lot, as starter, and proved more than Dennis.
Maybe we can extend Dennis now, but it would be more risky to offer him the same contract...



Agreed with both of these sentiments.

If Bazemore - a clear role player - is making $17 million, and Giannis - a budding superstar - is making $25 million (on a less than max deal)...I'd be comfortable splitting the difference on a $20 million/year contract for Dennis. We have the leverage in negotiations this off-season with DS still a bit of an unproven commodity as a starter.

I'm told it's 'unrealistic' to expect to get him for less than a max, but if we could do so now...on a contract with no early out clause...it'd be ideal.

NOTE: I'm still very wary of how Dwight and Dennis will mesh on the floor. If DS has a poor season, but some other team comes along still willing to overpay him next summer...we could lose yet another valuable rotation piece to Free Agency for nothing. And it would only open a measly $4 million in additional cap space for us. That's a worst case scenario.
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Re: Should Hawks extend THJ or DS this summer? 

Post#44 » by Jamaaliver » Fri Sep 23, 2016 8:41 pm

Two other 2013 draftees are in talks for extensions, also. These respective negotiations could help set a baseline for what DS and THJr can expect in their own extensions.


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Caldwell-Pope and Bullock were both first-round picks in the 2013 draft. Because they signed their rookie-scale contracts that year, and haven’t been waived since then, both players are heading into the final year of those deals, making them eligible for a rookie-scale extension by October 31.


While C.J. McCollum and Giannis Antetokounmpo have each signed rookie-scale extensions already with their respective teams, most negotiations around the NBA will likely go down to the wire, with teams and their extension candidates potentially reaching agreements during the final week of October.
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Re: Should Hawks extend THJ or DS this summer? 

Post#45 » by MaceCase » Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:12 am

Context is often a beautiful but often overlooked thing.

Some would look at the teams that are already projected to be right around the 2017 cap suspiciously being the first with publicized extensions to their free agents as just coincidence.
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Re: Should Hawks extend THJ or DS this summer? 

Post#46 » by Jamaaliver » Wed Oct 5, 2016 2:40 pm

An interesting wrinkle to consider with two young players potentially entering restricted free-agency next summer:

...while the list of players with explicit no-trade clauses may be dwindling, there are still several players each year who have the ability to veto trades.

A player who signs an offer sheet and has that offer matched by his previous team is given no-trade protection. Players who accept qualifying offers after their rookie deals expire can also block deals.
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So if we match a contract offer to THJ or DS next summer to retain their services, we're limited in trade options for that first season. If we extend the QO and they sign that offer, in lieu of new contract, we're limited in trade options for that first season.

Interesting.

NOTE: We've heard from a few sources how impressive THJ has been this summer. If he lives up to these raised expectations, I wouldn't be surprised to see some team make a huge offer to steal him away...knowing we have so much tied up in Bazemore, Taurean and Bembry moving forward.
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Re: Should Hawks extend THJ or DS this summer? 

Post#47 » by MaceCase » Wed Oct 5, 2016 5:08 pm

Most teams typically like to have more than 3 players make up their wing rotation. I can't see where Bazemore and two rookie scales would prevent the Hawks from matching a Hardaway contract.
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Re: Should Hawks extend THJ or DS this summer? 

Post#48 » by jayu70 » Wed Oct 5, 2016 5:14 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:A interesting wrinkle to consider with two young players potentially entering restricted free-agency next summer:

...while the list of players with explicit no-trade clauses may be dwindling, there are still several players each year who have the ability to veto trades.

A player who signs an offer sheet and has that offer matched by his previous team is given no-trade protection. Players who accept qualifying offers after their rookie deals expire can also block deals.
Here


So if we match a contract offer to THJ or DS next summer to retain their services, we're limited in trade options for that first season. If we extend the QO and they sign that offer, in lieu of new contract, we're limited in trade options for that first season.

Interesting.

NOTE: We've heard from a few sources how impressive THJ has been this summer. If he lives up these raised expectations, I wouldn't be surprised to see some team make him a huge offer to steal him away...knowing we have so much tied up in Bazemore, Taurean and Bembry moving forward.

We only have money tied up in Bazemore for 3+1 years. Taurean and De'Andre are on rookie contracts.
By the time they are eligible to be extended Bazemore's contract will be up. Decisions to be made then.
Matching or extending Hardaway then possibly trading him later is ALWAYS an option.
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Re: Should Hawks extend THJ or DS this summer? 

Post#49 » by Jamaaliver » Wed Oct 5, 2016 6:37 pm

jayu70 wrote:We only have money tied up in Bazemore for 3+1 years. Taurean and De'Andre are on rookie contracts.By the time they are eligible to be extended Bazemore's contract will be up. Decisions to be made then.Matching or extending Hardaway then possibly trading him later is ALWAYS an option.



Yeah. Everything above makes sense. I'm just thinking that if THJ, Bembry and Taurean all play well this season...

We could see a bad team like Brooklyn offer a big contract to Hardaway knowing that with all our other Free Agents next summer (Millsap, Dennis, Tiago, Korver, Thabo, Humphries) we might be hesitant to match a rich contract for a backup SG.

The Nets offered a 4 year/ $50 million contract to Tyler Johnson and a 4 year/ $75 million contract to Crabbe last summer.

Would we match such an offer if Taurean is ready to start at SF and Bazemore entrenched at SG?

Should we? Or just bring back Thabo and/or Korver on MUCH cheaper deals and develop a guy like Isiah Cordinier?
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Re: Should Hawks extend THJ or DS this summer? 

Post#50 » by jayu70 » Wed Oct 5, 2016 7:49 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
jayu70 wrote:We only have money tied up in Bazemore for 3+1 years. Taurean and De'Andre are on rookie contracts.By the time they are eligible to be extended Bazemore's contract will be up. Decisions to be made then.Matching or extending Hardaway then possibly trading him later is ALWAYS an option.



Yeah. Everything above makes sense. I'm just thinking that if THJ, Bembry and Taurean all play well this season...

We could see a bad team like Brooklyn offer a big contract to Hardaway knowing that with all our other Free Agents next summer (Millsap, Dennis, Tiago, Korver, Thabo) we might be hesitant to match a rich contract for a backup SG.

The Nets offered a 4 year/ $50 million contract to Tyler Johnson and a 4 year/ $75 million contract to Crabbe last summer.

Would we match such an offer if Taurean is ready to start at SF and Bazemore entrenched at SG?

Should we? Or just bring back Thabo and/or Korver on MUCH cheaper deals and develop a guy like Isiah Cordinier?

The Hawks have to at some point decide if they will be continually playing checkers or start playing chess when it comes to salaries and exceeding the cap and paying the luxury tax. (I don't want them to do it just to do it).
If Hardaway blows up and commands a big deal, you match the offer. He can ALWAYS be traded. For that matter, what if he surpasses Bazemore after 1 year on his deal, that might leave Bazemore available for trade.
The point is we have options available and more importantly - FULL BIRD RIGHTS on all these players.
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Re: Should Hawks extend THJ or DS this summer? 

Post#51 » by Jamaaliver » Wed Oct 5, 2016 8:27 pm

jayu70 wrote:The Hawks have to at some point decide if they will be continually playing checkers or start playing chess when it comes to salaries and exceeding the cap and paying the luxury tax. (I don't want them to do it just to do it).
If Hardaway blows up and commands a big deal, you match the offer. He can ALWAYS be traded. For that matter, what if he surpasses Bazemore after 1 year on his deal, that might leave Bazemore available for trade.
The point is we have options available and more importantly - FULL BIRD RIGHTS on all these players.




Hey, I get it.

I'm thinking, with all the cap space/roster spots we can have next summer...it might be prudent to add a few low-cost, proven vets to the mix at PG, SG and SF to aid the youngsters.

I'd be okay making offers to Shaun Livingston, Tony Allen and/or JJ Redick. Their respective teams will have their own salary cap concerns next summer.

Also, Danilo Gallinari and Gordon Hayward hit the market as an Unrestricted Free Agents, so...I'd strongly consider upgrading the starting unit and bench talent altogether.

Especially if MIllsap leaves...
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Re: Should Hawks extend THJ or DS this summer? 

Post#52 » by MaceCase » Wed Oct 5, 2016 8:42 pm

In what world is it reasonable to suggest that Hardaway would blow up only to be let go in favor of retaining two players 10 years older than him in Thabo and Korver? The mental gymnastics required to come up with these rare scenarios only to use examples of players that were retained by their original teams is baffling. The Hawks would have $73 million in cap before they reach the luxury tax with only 2 free agents of note to retain (3 if you want to include Hardaway). Surely they can find the way to afford them all with the beauty of also being able to reach out to other high priced free agents because 2 of the 3's capholds are negligible while they possess the ability to both match any offer under the sun and go over the cap to do so.
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Re: Should Hawks extend THJ or DS this summer? 

Post#53 » by jayu70 » Thu Oct 6, 2016 12:03 pm

Jamaaliver wrote:
jayu70 wrote:The Hawks have to at some point decide if they will be continually playing checkers or start playing chess when it comes to salaries and exceeding the cap and paying the luxury tax. (I don't want them to do it just to do it).
If Hardaway blows up and commands a big deal, you match the offer. He can ALWAYS be traded. For that matter, what if he surpasses Bazemore after 1 year on his deal, that might leave Bazemore available for trade.
The point is we have options available and more importantly - FULL BIRD RIGHTS on all these players.




Hey, I get it.

I'm thinking, with all the cap space/roster spots we can have next summer...it might be prudent to add a few low-cost, proven vets to the mix at PG, SG and SF to aid the youngsters.

I'd be okay making offers to Shaun Livingston, Tony Allen and/or JJ Redick. Their respective teams will have their own salary cap concerns next summer.

Also, Danilo Gallinari and Gordon Hayward hit the market as an Unrestricted Free Agents, so...I'd strongly consider upgrading the starting unit and bench talent altogether.

Especially if MIllsap leaves...

That's just it - Low Cost and Vets in this money environment will be hard to do. If Reddick ( (32) has a similar season to last year he will get paid. A 39 year old Manu got $14 million. They won't come cheap. If the choice is between a 34 year Tony Allen and/or a 32 year old Thabo/35 year old Korver for our bench - I'd rather have Thabo/Kyle as our vet bench to aid our youngsters - they'd be easier to resign since we can exceed the cap to resign them and they are system familiar.
Additionally, if we sign an unrestricted free agents like Haywood/Gallinari (30% of the cap) - there goes ALL or MOST of the capspace, limiting our ability even further to add bench vets like Livingston and Allen who are also free agents.
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Re: Should Hawks extend THJ or DS this summer? 

Post#54 » by Jamaaliver » Thu Oct 6, 2016 3:07 pm

jayu70 wrote:That's just it - Low Cost and Vets in this money environment will be hard to do. If Reddick ( (32) has a similar season to last year he will get paid. A 39 year old Manu got $14 million. They won't come cheap. If the choice is between a 34 year Tony Allen and/or a 32 year old Thabo/35 year old Korver for our bench - I'd rather have Thabo/Kyle as our vet bench to aid our youngsters - they'd be easier to resign since we can exceed the cap to resign them and they are system familiar.
Additionally, if we sign an unrestricted free agents like Haywood/Gallinari (30% of the cap) - there goes ALL or MOST of the capspace, limiting our ability even further to add bench vets like Livingston and Allen who are also free agents.



And every bit of that makes sense.

I suspect that, unless we make an impressive run back to the Conference Finals with this roster, Ressler will encourage Bud to remake this team around Dwight next summer...or even blow the whole thing up.

Moving forward, I could see Dennis-Bazemore-Taurean starting at the 1, 2 & 3...and us getting a younger stretch-4 to help open the floor for D12.
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Re: Should Hawks extend THJ or DS this summer? 

Post#55 » by Jamaaliver » Wed Oct 12, 2016 6:24 pm

Zach Lowe, one of the more respected NBA Insiders around the league makes some predictions on which players will sign an extension, including our own Dennis Schroder:


Contract extension mania!
A lot can change between now and the Oct. 31 deadline for rookie extensions. If the league has a new CBA in place by then, you can scrap a lot of these predictions. For now, here's an educated guess at some of the thornier cases.


Dennis Schroder: No.
Here



No reason given, but he seems pretty confident that it ain't happening. Hawks will have to either sign him to an extension or extend a qualifying offer before the end of this month to retain his Restricted Free Agency status next summer.
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Re: Should Hawks extend THJ or DS this summer? 

Post#56 » by MaceCase » Wed Oct 12, 2016 8:50 pm

Could just apply the synopsis spent on other RFAs to get the gist of how things work.

Here, I'll help:

He wants the max, or close to it, and the [Hawks] would be right to hold off. An early extension can sew goodwill between player and team, but beyond that, there's not really any point to signing such deals at an amount close to the max. A team can just wait until restricted free agency, evaluate the player for another season and hand over the max (if that's what it takes) in July.


No. Giving [Schröder] a raise over his cap hold amount would cramp [Atlanta's] plans to carve out max-cap space.


The Hawks have till the 31st to offer an extension, they cannot offer a QO until next summer.
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Re: Should Hawks extend THJ or DS this summer? 

Post#57 » by PandaKidd » Fri Oct 14, 2016 7:10 pm

http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2016/10/14/13288896/dennis-schroder-contract-extension-unlikely-atlanta-hawks-marc-stein

The Hawks gave Schroder some of what he wanted by trading away Jeff Teagueand clearing the way for the 23-year-old German to take over as Atlanta's starter at the point. Yet there's a sense that the Hawks, as high as they are on Schroder, prefer to see how he responds to his promotion before launching into ‎a new long-term arrangement.

Setting Schroder up to be the starter, remember, wasn't Atlanta's only motivation in dealing Teague to Indiana. The Hawks understandably didn't want to employ two point guards entering the final year of their respective contracts.
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Re: Should Hawks extend THJ or DS this summer? 

Post#58 » by Jamaaliver » Fri Oct 14, 2016 8:32 pm

PandaKidd wrote:http://www.peachtreehoops.com/2016/10/14/13288896/dennis-schroder-contract-extension-unlikely-atlanta-hawks-marc-stein

The Hawks gave Schroder some of what he wanted by trading away Jeff Teague and clearing the way for the 23-year-old German to take over as Atlanta's starter at the point. Yet there's a sense that the Hawks, as high as they are on Schroder, prefer to see how he responds to his promotion before launching into ‎a new long-term arrangement.

Setting Schroder up to be the starter, remember, wasn't Atlanta's only motivation in dealing Teague to Indiana. The Hawks understandably didn't want to employ two point guards entering the final year of their respective contracts.



All of this makes sense.

I've just gotten to the point, where I'd never let my top players reach Free Agency. Restricted or Otherwise.


It's an interesting development that part of the team's purported reasoning for NOT extending Dennis...is because there is some skepticism regarding his abilities as a starting PG:

Marc Stein wrote:...the latest signals are less encouraging for Atlanta Hawks guard Dennis Schroder. [T]here's a sense that the Hawks prefer to see how he responds to his promotion.
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Re: Should Hawks extend THJ or DS this summer? 

Post#59 » by Jamaaliver » Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:06 pm

Wilcox makes a quick mention regarding the extensions for these two players:

C-Viv: Concerning Schroder, you have until Oct. 31 to extend his contract. Are there plans to do to that? Or will you see how he plays this season and deal with restricted free agency?

Wes Wilcox: It’s the deadline for both Dennis and Tim Hardaway Jr. We’ve had conversations with both representatives. It’s too difficult to say if something will get done and those conversations, as always, we keep internal. But yes, we’ve had conversations with both.
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Re: Should Hawks extend THJ or DS this summer? 

Post#60 » by Jamaaliver » Wed Oct 26, 2016 3:38 pm

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