Is Isiash Thomas the best PG in the EAST? [Poll added]

rygar · Post #121 » by **rygar** » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:45 am

Isiah = Best scoring PG
Lowry = Best PG in regular season
Kyrie = Best PG in playoffs

Isiah is a huge 4th quarter player and pretty clutch. He's also a liability in defense so for me he's 3a/b with Wall.

I can't put Lowry over Kyrie until he proves he can handle the playoffs intensity. That's the main problem with the Raptors; both of the main guys hide under the rock once the meaningful games begin. (both have <.400 career playoff fg%)

Kyrie's not perfect either but for me he's the #1. He can thank Lebron though, he can focus on his strengths playing alongside the GOAT.

Post #122 » by **165bows** » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:50 am

Where is my thread from the summer saying Thomas v Wall for AS spot would be a storyline this year? Need to find that at some point.

Post #123 » by **165bows** » Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:52 am

rygar wrote:Isiah = Best scoring PG
Lowry = Best PG in regular season
Kyrie = Best PG in playoffs

Isiah is a huge 4th quarter player and pretty clutch. He's also a liability in defense so for me he's 3a/b with Wall.

I can't put Lowry over Kyrie until he proves he can handle the playoffs intensity. That's the main problem with the Raptors; both of the main guys hide under the rock once the meaningful games begin. (both have <.400 career playoff fg%)

Kyrie's not perfect either but for me he's the #1. He can thank Lebron though, he can focus on his strengths playing alongside the GOAT.

Seems an odd assessment considering Kyrie never made the playoffs without LeBron.

Wilfried · Post #124 » by **Wilfried** » Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:00 am

Isaiah scores bad in real plus/minus, because of his very bad D

So no, he's not the best. Lowry and Wall are certainly better.

In the East, he's currently ranked 6th PG (behind Lowry - Wall - Walker - Teague - Irving)

rygar · Post #125 » by **rygar** » Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:02 am

165bows wrote:
rygar wrote:Isiah = Best scoring PG
Lowry = Best PG in regular season
Kyrie = Best PG in playoffs

Isiah is a huge 4th quarter player and pretty clutch. He's also a liability in defense so for me he's 3a/b with Wall.

I can't put Lowry over Kyrie until he proves he can handle the playoffs intensity. That's the main problem with the Raptors; both of the main guys hide under the rock once the meaningful games begin. (both have <.400 career playoff fg%)

Kyrie's not perfect either but for me he's the #1. He can thank Lebron though, he can focus on his strengths playing alongside the GOAT.

Seems an odd assessment considering Kyrie never made the playoffs without LeBron.

That's why I said he's the best PG in playoffs.

Pennebaker · Post #126 » by **Pennebaker** » Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:11 am

zronv7 wrote:Putting up historical numbers in the 4th quarter, natural born clutch closer.

33ppg last 10 games on 50% shooting

28/6/3 this year with 27 per

No. The best point guard in the east is LeBron James.

Thomas takes too many shots for someone that's 5'8. That only hurts Boston in the long run, in my opinion. Anytime you're in a situation where your leading scorer is taking 20 shots a game and only shooting 46%.... that's not ideal. Then you see that he's 5'8 or 5'9 and it's even less palatable because the rim is always going to be at least 10 feet high with all sorts of very, very tall dudes defending it.

queridiculo · Post #127 » by **queridiculo** » Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:03 am

I don't think he's the best point guard in the east, at least in the traditional sense, but you can certainly make the argument that the title of best guard in the East is between him and DeRozan.

To me the Celtics have done a great job maximizing his talents but I doubt he'd be every bit as effective running the point for any team outside of the current top three in the Eastern Conference.

Meliorus · Post #128 » by **Meliorus** » Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:16 pm

165bows wrote:
rygar wrote:Isiah = Best scoring PG
Lowry = Best PG in regular season
Kyrie = Best PG in playoffs

Isiah is a huge 4th quarter player and pretty clutch. He's also a liability in defense so for me he's 3a/b with Wall.

I can't put Lowry over Kyrie until he proves he can handle the playoffs intensity. That's the main problem with the Raptors; both of the main guys hide under the rock once the meaningful games begin. (both have <.400 career playoff fg%)

Kyrie's not perfect either but for me he's the #1. He can thank Lebron though, he can focus on his strengths playing alongside the GOAT.

Seems an odd assessment considering Kyrie never made the playoffs without LeBron.

Not to mention an absurdly bad record when Lebron sits and K-Love and Kyrie play. Teams literally roll over and blow the **** out of the Cavs when Lebron doesn't play.

LivingLegend · Post #129 » by **LivingLegend** » Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:21 pm

Does Thomas' beyond abysmal defensive impact get factored into this at all? He might score 28 in a game, but he is a turnstile on defense with his size that gives up just as much.

He is a very good scorer and a passable facilitator. His defense though cannot be overlooked.

The_Hater · Post #130 » by **The_Hater** » Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:09 pm

Pennebaker wrote:
zronv7 wrote:Putting up historical numbers in the 4th quarter, natural born clutch closer.

33ppg last 10 games on 50% shooting

28/6/3 this year with 27 per

No. The best point guard in the east is LeBron James.

Thomas takes too many shots for someone that's 5'8. That only hurts Boston in the long run, in my opinion. Anytime you're in a situation where your leading scorer is taking 20 shots a game and only shooting 46%.... that's not ideal. Then you see that he's 5'8 or 5'9 and it's even less palatable because the rim is always going to be at least 10 feet high with all sorts of very, very tall dudes defending it.

Considering his TS% is at 61.7% and among the league leaders, the Celtics offense ranks 7th in the league with him leading every important category and they are 3rd overall in the conference, he absolutely does NOT take too many shots. I have no idea what his height has to do with your argument and if you actually think he's inefficient then you're looking at the wrong stats. The ball goes in. Period.

IT's problem is that he's a terrible defensive player. Offensively he's one of the best and most efficient weapons in the entire league.

Wargreymon · Post #131 » by **Wargreymon** » Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:00 am

Boston34Bg wrote:
Wargreymon wrote:When people talk ball, a lot of them are like, "Yo did you see IT drop 30 and 10 the other night against the Knicks? 30 and 10 BRUH!!!"
People aren't gonna bring up advanced stats in the same light like, "Yo dawg, you see KLow7 with that +36 Net Rating+/-?? He leads the league in VORP and Real Plus/Minus!!!"

He just scored 39 again(IT did). I literally don't care about Lowry, he's good, but ur team gonna get forced into an absurd overpay to keep him more than likely.

The past month Thomas has scored 32 a game shooting around 49% from the field, 44 from 3... He's probably 5'7, nobody has done that at his size, not to mention he's the first guy to record over 10 pts a game in the fourth(he's the king of the fourth) and the most important thing this is not a Kyle Lowry thread it's IT thread, you posted 3 times about Lowry, already.

In a thread that's about discussing whether or not IT is the best PG in the East, you have to bring up other players to compare him too. Bringing up Kyle Lowry seems to irk you though huh lol?

AKFO · Post #132 » by **AKFO** » Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:49 am

queridiculo wrote:I don't think he's the best point guard in the east, at least in the traditional sense, but you can certainly make the argument that the title of best guard in the East is between him and DeRozan.

At the same time, I'm not sure any of the Lowry/Irving/Wall trio would elevate the Celtics instantly to a 50 win pace like IT did when he was traded to the C's two years ago. That was a team that a lot of you guys here considered to be completely devoid of talent back in the 14/15 season. Maybe..

Meliorus · Post #133 » by **Meliorus** » Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:09 am

AKFO wrote:
queridiculo wrote:I don't think he's the best point guard in the east, at least in the traditional sense, but you can certainly make the argument that the title of best guard in the East is between him and DeRozan.

At the same time, I'm not sure any of the Lowry/Irving/Wall trio would elevate the Celtics instantly to a 50 win pace like IT did when he was traded to the C's two years ago. That was a team that a lot of you guys here considered to be completely devoid of talent back in the 14/15 season. Maybe..

Wall led his team to the 2nd round twice. Remember the Nick Young/McGee/Blatche joke Wizards? That was the franchise he stepped into. Isaiah has never been to the 2nd round. Boston's GM is also clearly superior, building a very good surrounding cast. You're not taking into account all the changes Ainge has made since Isaiah arrived.

AKFO · Post #134 » by **AKFO** » Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:28 am

Meliorus wrote:
AKFO wrote:
queridiculo wrote:I don't think he's the best point guard in the east, at least in the traditional sense, but you can certainly make the argument that the title of best guard in the East is between him and DeRozan.

At the same time, I'm not sure any of the Lowry/Irving/Wall trio would elevate the Celtics instantly to a 50 win pace like IT did when he was traded to the C's two years ago. That was a team that a lot of you guys here considered to be completely devoid of talent back in the 14/15 season. Maybe..

Wall led his team to the 2nd round twice. Remember the Nick Young/McGee/Blatche joke Wizards? That was the franchise he stepped into. Isaiah has never been to the 2nd round. Boston's GM is also clearly superior, building a very good surrounding cast. You're not taking into account all the changes Ainge has made since Isaiah arrived.

Isaiah arrived and took a team that was contending for a top 5 pick and went like 22-11 to close out the 2015 season. I don't know if those guys could've replicated that on the Celtics. Maybe Wall/Lowry/Irving are better point guards, but I wouldn't necessarily rather have them on the C's.

Par36 · Post #135 » by **Par36** » Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:36 am

It really is a shame the game of basketball has two parts.. Offense and defense or you'd be 110% right!

He's a solid#3 behind Lowry and Wall.

Wraps_fan · Post #136 » by **Wraps_fan** » Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:46 am

queridiculo wrote:I don't think he's the best point guard in the east, at least in the traditional sense, but you can certainly make the argument that the title of best guard in the East is between him and DeRozan.

To me the Celtics have done a great job maximizing his talents but I doubt he'd be every bit as effective running the point for any team outside of the current top three in the Eastern Conference.

DeRozan isn't even the best guard on his team

Pelly24 · Post #137 » by **Pelly24** » Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:19 am

Kyle Lowry is the best PG in the east because he's an elite offensive player and a very good defensive player.
IT is the best scorer in the East and his offensive numbers have been borderline transcendant. Wall's been very good playing both ways and gotten the Wizards back on track. I have Lowry at number one, and Wall at 2A. and IT and 2B.

Arman_tanzarian · Post #138 » by **Arman_tanzarian** » Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:22 am

OrlandoTill wrote:
PierceFan4ever wrote:Look at what he did to both Wall and Walker just recently. Better player this season is IT. I'm just using records as a cherry on top. Celtics would be near lottery without him.

I'm not sure man your teams has one of the best guard situations in the league. Also this

Hey where'd you get this Chart? Original sauce?

becausephilchow · Post #139 » by **becausephilchow** » Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:32 am

Nope, he's not at all.

Post #140 » by **bwgood77** » Fri Jan 20, 2017 5:39 am

He is the best shoot first and scoring PG in the east. I'd still put Lowry and Wall ahead of him. For clutch factor, Kyrie, but I don't know that Kyrie can take over a game as easily as IT did the other night at this point.

It's a little tough to completely judge Kyrie on being a PG, because for all intents and purposes, LeBron runs point.

Who is the best PG in the East?