Is Isiash Thomas the best PG in the EAST? [Poll added]

jangles86 · Post #142 » by **jangles86** » Fri Jan 20, 2017 7:27 am

John Wall is the best point guard in the east.

If wall had just one other all star to play with he'd average 13-15 assists. He's the best defensive PG in the league and has somehow led this shambles of a Wizards roster to 23-19 record!

celtics543 · Post #143 » by **celtics543** » Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:13 pm

jangles86 wrote:John Wall is the best point guard in the east.

If wall had just one other all star to play with he'd average 13-15 assists. He's the best defensive PG in the league and has somehow led this shambles of a Wizards roster to 23-19 record!

Bradley Beal is averaging 22 points on 45/40/81 percentages. How is that not a star player?

The_Hater · Post #144 » by **The_Hater** » Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:19 pm

jangles86 wrote:John Wall is the best point guard in the east.

If wall had just one other all star to play with he'd average 13-15 assists. He's the best defensive PG in the league and has somehow led this shambles of a Wizards roster to 23-19 record!

If Washington had another all star Wall's apg would most likley go down. Right now he handles the ball on every single offensive set instead of sharing that job.

Braggins · Post #145 » by **Braggins** » Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:24 pm

Lowry
Wall
Kemba
IT
Kyrie

tdotrep2 · Post #146 » by **tdotrep2** » Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:13 pm

Lowry just wills his team man. He'll pick his spots but when the team needs him he dominates everyone. He's disgusting

Meliorus · Post #147 » by **Meliorus** » Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:20 pm

celtics543 wrote:
jangles86 wrote:John Wall is the best point guard in the east.

If wall had just one other all star to play with he'd average 13-15 assists. He's the best defensive PG in the league and has somehow led this shambles of a Wizards roster to 23-19 record!

Bradley Beal is averaging 22 points on 45/40/81 percentages. How is that not a star player?

He's talking about the rest of the team. We have 3 good players outside of Wall, our bench is consistently at the bottom in all statistics. Heck Otto is a star and our 2nd best player. But our bench is 2nd to last in NetRtg. When your GM doesn't have a functional brain, you can't even build an average bench. 1 of our big signings seems to have chronic knee issues. The other is completely healthy but collecting DNPs (because he sucks). We have a garbage roster, and Wall is making the most out of nothing.

http://www.sbnation.com/2016/12/7/13867032/washington-wizards-bad-john-wall-bench

Pennebaker · Post #148 » by **Pennebaker** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:50 am

The_Hater wrote:
Pennebaker wrote:
zronv7 wrote:Putting up historical numbers in the 4th quarter, natural born clutch closer.

33ppg last 10 games on 50% shooting

28/6/3 this year with 27 per

No. The best point guard in the east is LeBron James.

Thomas takes too many shots for someone that's 5'8. That only hurts Boston in the long run, in my opinion. Anytime you're in a situation where your leading scorer is taking 20 shots a game and only shooting 46%.... that's not ideal. Then you see that he's 5'8 or 5'9 and it's even less palatable because the rim is always going to be at least 10 feet high with all sorts of very, very tall dudes defending it.

Considering his TS% is at 61.7% and among the league leaders, the Celtics offense ranks 7th in the league with him leading every important category and they are 3rd overall in the conference, he absolutely does NOT take too many shots. I have no idea what his height has to do with your argument and if you actually think he's inefficient then you're looking at the wrong stats. The ball goes in. Period.

IT's problem is that he's a terrible defensive player. Offensively he's one of the best and most efficient weapons in the entire league.

You take the label "True Shooting Percentage" at face value - as if that is indeed his true shooting percentage.

That is what the creators of that stat wanted you to think, so well done!

Thomas augments his poor shooting with a .913 free throw percentage. 2nd in the league. But in my opinion the TS% stat overvalues free throw shooting. It's weighted at .44 per attempt, which is puzzling to me and many others. In other words, is a FTA 44% of a field goal attempt, or is it more accurately understood as 33% of a 3-point attempt? This goes unanswered with TS%.

You have to get around the idea that the label of "true" actually means that it's true in a literal sense. It's just a name.

bronxknicksfan1 · Post #149 » by **bronxknicksfan1** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:58 am

Pennebaker wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
Considering his TS% is at 61.7% and among the league leaders, the Celtics offense ranks 7th in the league with him leading every important category and they are 3rd overall in the conference, he absolutely does NOT take too many shots. I have no idea what his height has to do with your argument and if you actually think he's inefficient then you're looking at the wrong stats. The ball goes in. Period.

IT's problem is that he's a terrible defensive player. Offensively he's one of the best and most efficient weapons in the entire league.

You take the label "True Shooting Percentage" at face value - as if that is indeed his true shooting percentage.

That is what the creators of that stat wanted you to think, so well done!

Thomas augments his poor shooting with a .913 free throw percentage. 2nd in the league. But in my opinion the TS% stat overvalues free throw shooting. It's weighted at .44 per attempt, which is puzzling to me and many others. In other words, is a FTA 44% of a field goal attempt, or is it more accurately understood as 33% of a 3-point attempt? This goes unanswered with TS%.

You have to get around the idea that the label of "true" actually means that it's true in a literal sense. It's just a name.

Thomas also take almost 9 free throws a game shooting 91.3%. That's why he has a very high true shooting percentage. Say what you want about him taking 20 shots a game. His shots produce 1.5 points per shot, which is a very similar rate to James Harden and Kevin Durant right now and much higher than LeBron.

Slax · Post #150 » by **Slax** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:29 pm

Pennebaker wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
Pennebaker wrote:
No. The best point guard in the east is LeBron James.

Thomas takes too many shots for someone that's 5'8. That only hurts Boston in the long run, in my opinion. Anytime you're in a situation where your leading scorer is taking 20 shots a game and only shooting 46%.... that's not ideal. Then you see that he's 5'8 or 5'9 and it's even less palatable because the rim is always going to be at least 10 feet high with all sorts of very, very tall dudes defending it.

Considering his TS% is at 61.7% and among the league leaders, the Celtics offense ranks 7th in the league with him leading every important category and they are 3rd overall in the conference, he absolutely does NOT take too many shots. I have no idea what his height has to do with your argument and if you actually think he's inefficient then you're looking at the wrong stats. The ball goes in. Period.

IT's problem is that he's a terrible defensive player. Offensively he's one of the best and most efficient weapons in the entire league.

You take the label "True Shooting Percentage" at face value - as if that is indeed his true shooting percentage.

That is what the creators of that stat wanted you to think, so well done!

Thomas augments his poor shooting with a .913 free throw percentage. 2nd in the league. But in my opinion the TS% stat overvalues free throw shooting. It's weighted at .44 per attempt, which is puzzling to me and many others. In other words, is a FTA 44% of a field goal attempt, or is it more accurately understood as 33% of a 3-point attempt? This goes unanswered with TS%.

You have to get around the idea that the label of "true" actually means that it's true in a literal sense. It's just a name.

I take TS% to be an approximation of half the average points the player will score in a single possession where that possession ends in the player either taking a shot or shooting free throws. Thus two point attempts and three point attempts contribute the same to the denominator because both add one possession, but three pointers made add more than two pointers made to the numerator because they add more points to the player's total. Presumably the 44% for free throw attempts is based on an empirical observation that roughly 12% of free throw attempts come from an and-1 opportunity or on a three point attempt (so that the player is shooting three) and thus the possession is already accounted for by a two or three point shot attempt or other free throws. That all seems pretty logical. It's obviously not perfect but sensible for getting a rough approximation of whether that player is helping or hurting your team by trying to score, and it accurately shows that IT is helping the Celtics by getting to the line so frequently and hitting his free throws so consistently.

maisenza13 · Post #151 » by **maisenza13** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:41 pm

In this regular season yes

The_Hater · Post #152 » by **The_Hater** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:30 pm

Pennebaker wrote:
The_Hater wrote:
Pennebaker wrote:
No. The best point guard in the east is LeBron James.

Thomas takes too many shots for someone that's 5'8. That only hurts Boston in the long run, in my opinion. Anytime you're in a situation where your leading scorer is taking 20 shots a game and only shooting 46%.... that's not ideal. Then you see that he's 5'8 or 5'9 and it's even less palatable because the rim is always going to be at least 10 feet high with all sorts of very, very tall dudes defending it.

Considering his TS% is at 61.7% and among the league leaders, the Celtics offense ranks 7th in the league with him leading every important category and they are 3rd overall in the conference, he absolutely does NOT take too many shots. I have no idea what his height has to do with your argument and if you actually think he's inefficient then you're looking at the wrong stats. The ball goes in. Period.

IT's problem is that he's a terrible defensive player. Offensively he's one of the best and most efficient weapons in the entire league.

You take the label "True Shooting Percentage" at face value - as if that is indeed his true shooting percentage.

That is what the creators of that stat wanted you to think, so well done!

Thomas augments his poor shooting with a .913 free throw percentage. 2nd in the league. But in my opinion the TS% stat overvalues free throw shooting. It's weighted at .44 per attempt, which is puzzling to me and many others. In other words, is a FTA 44% of a field goal attempt, or is it more accurately understood as 33% of a 3-point attempt? This goes unanswered with TS%.

You have to get around the idea that the label of "true" actually means that it's true in a literal sense. It's just a name.

While that was an excellent attempt to discredit his efficiency, newsflash, FT's still count towards your team's point total. So they're kinda important.

And if you want to ignore them, he's still 11th in the league among all perimeter players in effective field goal percentage. So he's highly efficient even without those 8 made FT's per game.

reload141 · Post #153 » by **reload141** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:47 pm

Between Wall/IT for this season so far. Without a doubt.

rasta_marley · Post #154 » by **rasta_marley** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:58 pm

Fadeaway_Jumper wrote:It is between him and Lowry for best PG in the east.

Kyrie wouldn't be my first choice to be the face of the franchise,but I've noticed in the playoffs no matter which PG he's matched up against he rountinely out plays them. He destroyed Lowry & mr. MVP steph curry last year on his way to a ring

I think LeBron playing defence on curry is what got him. Threw curry off his game.

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I_Like_Dirt · Post #155 » by **I_Like_Dirt** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:19 pm

rasta_marley wrote:I think LeBron playing defence on curry is what got him. Threw curry off his game.

Lebron is a huge factor against opposing PG-led teams, or really, any opposing offensive weapon in general. If anything, I think Lebron is actually a bit underrated at this point. The Warriors will be interesting in the finals this year, if it comes to that, because Lebron isn't going to be able to help out nearly as much with Durant around as he was with Barnes instead. But against Lowry? Lebron is always there looking for blocks and steals because Carroll and Ross really weren't guys that challenged him. Irving routinely outplays the opposing PG statistically, but the stats don't tell the whole story there because Lebron just makes that big of a difference, either as help, or when Irving is really overmatched, but straight up guarding the opposing PG.

Post #156 » by **Froob** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 5:27 pm

maisenza13 wrote:In this regular season yes

This is a big playoffs for him, first run he didn't play well but we were badly overmatched. Last year AB was out and Crowder's ankles were ****ed so he had no shooters. No excuses this year if we have our squad healthy.

Torres · Post #157 » by **Torres** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:04 pm

1A Lowry
1B Isaiah

TopDawg · Post #158 » by **TopDawg** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:29 pm

Regular Season
1 Wall
2 Lowery
3 Kyrie

Playoffs
1. Kyrie
2. Everyone else

bmurph128 · Post #159 » by **bmurph128** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:51 pm

Braggins wrote:Lowry
Wall
Kemba
IT
Kyrie

C'mon man. I'm good with Lowry and Wall ahead of Kyrie, but that's it.

TheKingOfVa360 · Post #160 » by **TheKingOfVa360** » Wed Feb 15, 2017 10:43 pm

TopDawg wrote:Regular Season
1 Wall
2 Lowery
3 Kyrie

Playoffs
1. Kyrie
2. Everyone else

Wall has took his team to the second round of the playoffs twice as the lead player. Something Kyrie couldn't come close to doing as the best player on his team. Guys like Wall and IT are the best players on their team (Lowry is also arguably) which makes their jobs tougher.

Who is the best PG in the East?