The Official Lin Net Thread II

[Vae Victus]

Ed Davis is actually kinda like a Poor Man's Noel.

Incredibly skinny so is easily pushed around, but a solid off ball rim protector. Basic offensive game (actually is much better than Noel down low) that excels in the PnR, has incredible finishing ability. On a dirt cheap deal with 1 year left. He's actually the perfect backup for BroLo and can at times play with him by being the rim runner PnR partner for Lin, while BroLo spots up.

They played together with the LAL and had instant chemistry. Their PnR was utterly deadly, either Lin got a layup, Davis got a easy layup, or Lin bricks his layup but drew both defenders and Davis get an easy putback. Byron "TankMasts" Scott put an end to that **** quick.

Only way i can see BRK getting Davis is as a throw in with Crabbe to ditch more salary. Basically a Plan C option IMO, to go for after whiffing on Porter and other better options.

[Prokorov]

[

Depending on who you get to replace Lopez, Brooklyn may get a bit better at PnR defense, but Brooklyn loses a lot on offense and [b]the ability to stretch the floor with a stretch-5 which I believe is much more valuable than a stretch-4

its not a bit better in the pick and roll... its an enormous monumental upgrade. going from arguably the worst pick and roll defending big among starters to even a bad pick and roll defender is an upgrade. not to mention a center who could switch an hold his own.

19 points isnt tough to make up for and ideally you prefer scoring from wings and forwards anyhow.

Lopez is holding us back. it isnt all on him, this team has no talent, but he will always hold us back defensively

As I stated, when Lin came back, Brooklyn was much more competitive and Lopez's offense canceled out whatever you feel he's not given you on the PnR defense........So the second half of the season demonstrated to all of us you can win with Lopez if you give him a good PG and add a few NBA level players around him.

Marks should look to team Lopez with a physical rebounding PF who is not undersized...A guy like Ed Davis would be great alongside Lopez + Davis could be a great PnR partner for Lin who had great chemistry with Lin with the Lakers.

We did play much better. but we were still a losing team reacord wise. and you can win games with lopez, you just have a very low ceiling of a low playoff seed that is likely to get bounced in the first round. better playoff teams will take advantage of it especially in a 7 game series wher ethey gameplan for you. Its not like we went 20-5 post allstar break or something. look at the difference in the bucks for instance once they benched monroe (lopez -light but similar) for thon maker. they finished 17-5.

We've paired lopez with rebounder in the past... kris humhries, reggie evans, KG... it doesnt really work out. it all comes down to pick and rorll defense and switching....

-if the opponent puts lopez in a pick and roll, there is nothing the PF can do to help
-if a team has a stretch big, that PF wont be in position to help renound

there is only 1 way around these issue. bring in a new center. maybe we draft him groom him this year and let lopez walk. thats an option. but we will never really be more a first round out with lopez on the team

i like ed davis too, and id be fine with him replacing lopez

[MrDollarBills]

i don't think we're bringing in any big names free agency wise.

[hood30]

its not a bit better in the pick and roll... its an enormous monumental upgrade. going from arguably the worst pick and roll defending big among starters to even a bad pick and roll defender is an upgrade. not to mention a center who could switch an hold his own.

19 points isnt tough to make up for and ideally you prefer scoring from wings and forwards anyhow.

Lopez is holding us back. it isnt all on him, this team has no talent, but he will always hold us back defensively

As I stated, when Lin came back, Brooklyn was much more competitive and Lopez's offense canceled out whatever you feel he's not given you on the PnR defense........So the second half of the season demonstrated to all of us you can win with Lopez if you give him a good PG and add a few NBA level players around him.

Marks should look to team Lopez with a physical rebounding PF who is not undersized...A guy like Ed Davis would be great alongside Lopez + Davis could be a great PnR partner for Lin who had great chemistry with Lin with the Lakers.

We did play much better. but we were still a losing team reacord wise. and you can win games with lopez, you just have a very low ceiling of a low playoff seed that is likely to get bounced in the first round. better playoff teams will take advantage of it especially in a 7 game series wher ethey gameplan for you. Its not like we went 20-5 post allstar break or something. look at the difference in the bucks for instance once they benched monroe (lopez -light but similar) for thon maker. they finished 17-5.

We've paired lopez with rebounder in the past... kris humhries, reggie evans, KG... it doesnt really work out. it all comes down to pick and rorll defense and switching....

-if the opponent puts lopez in a pick and roll, there is nothing the PF can do to help
-if a team has a stretch big, that PF wont be in position to help renound

there is only 1 way around these issue. bring in a new center. maybe we draft him groom him this year and let lopez walk. thats an option. but we will never really be more a first round out with lopez on the team

i like ed davis too, and id be fine with him replacing lopez

the Bucks have enough scoring, so they can afford to start a rookie like Thon Maker who doesn't give them much on the offense end of the ball at this point.. Giannis and Middleton are both legit 25-20 point scorer, so they really don't need Monroe to start....But Brooklyn can not say the same if they remove Lopez since he's the only one that can consistently give you 20 on a nightly basis.

You remind me of Hornets fan who strongly believed MKG defensive impact alone was much greater than Lin/Lee offensive output..Of course MKG is a good defender(not great) but Hornets got worse this year..You want to know why??..Because MKG couldn't shoot or score enough to replace the scoring they lost by allowing Lin/Lee to leave via free agency

You are grossly over-rating the impact of guys who aren't even elite defenders while under-valuing natural scorers and than forcing yourself to believe anybody that's a bit better than Lopez on PnR defense would improve Brooklyn....This is where I strongly disasgree with your premise....To me, if you're going to get rid of Lopez, you better be sure you would be able to replace his scoring and you simply can not do it with a strict Lopez- for Noel swap.

I can confidently state that this Brooklyn team would not be better this year if Noel was playing center instead of Lopez...It is mind boggling to think so and Noel is not even that good on defense..The gap on the defensive end between Noel and Lopez would have to be massive in which it is not....Noel is no where close to Jordan or Whiteside and only this type of defense at the center position can make you ignore a 20ppg center.

[bws94]

I think hood has a good point. You need an exceptional defensive player to make up for the excellent scoring that Brook brings.

[Prokorov]

You are grossly over-rating the impact of guys who aren't even elite defenders while under-valuing natural scorers and than forcing yourself to believe anybody that's a bit better than Lopez on PnR defense would improve Brooklyn....This is where I strongly disasgree with your premise....To me, if you're going to get rid of Lopez, you better be sure you would be able to replace his scoring and you simply can not do it with a strict Lopez- for Noel swap.

His scoring is super easy to replace.,, we arent talking about harden or durant here. its 19 points a game. you find a wing scorer to take Foyes spot an get a couple more points from levert and you've accomplished it.

meanwhile, its not "a bit better" pnr defense. it an enormous difference from completely conceeding pick and rolls having your center sit neat the restricted area and always having your gaurd go over the screen vs. being able to blitz it, trap it, show and recover it, or switch it. the difference on defense is monumental. the offense isnt tough at all to replace.

get 6 to 8 points from your new center, get about 3 points from levert, and find someone to takes foyes starting spot to give you 14 points a game.

I can confidently state that this Brooklyn team would not be better this year if Noel was playing center instead of Lopez...It is mind boggling to think so and Noel is not even that good on defense..The gap on the defensive end between Noel and Lopez would have to be massive in which it is not....Noel is no where close to Jordan or Whiteside and only this type of defense at the center position can make you ignore a 20ppg center.

it would be enormous. its not that noel is anything great. its that lopez is as bad as it gets in pick and rolls and switching. we DONT EVEN ATTEMPT to switch or trap or blitz or show and recover. there are tons of strategies that are just out the window. with noel you can do more and from a TEAM defensive perspective it makes an enormous difference

we would be 5-10 wins better with noel (or anyone capable of those things)

[Prokorov]

I think hood has a good point. You need an exceptional defensive player to make up for the excellent scoring that Brook brings.

No you dont. 19 points per game is easy to patch together.

the defensive impact is like 10 times that impact if not more. again its not just talent level on defense, there are legit like a half dozens stratagies all the best defensive teams use that are out the window because lopez isnt capable so we dont even attempt it.

[hood30]

You are grossly over-rating the impact of guys who aren't even elite defenders while under-valuing natural scorers and than forcing yourself to believe anybody that's a bit better than Lopez on PnR defense would improve Brooklyn....This is where I strongly disasgree with your premise....To me, if you're going to get rid of Lopez, you better be sure you would be able to replace his scoring and you simply can not do it with a strict Lopez- for Noel swap.

His scoring is super easy to replace.,, we arent talking about harden or durant here. its 19 points a game. you find a wing scorer to take Foyes spot an get a couple more points from levert and you've accomplished it.

meanwhile, its not "a bit better" pnr defense. it an enormous difference from completely conceeding pick and rolls having your center sit neat the restricted area and always having your gaurd go over the screen vs. being able to blitz it, trap it, show and recover it, or switch it. the difference on defense is monumental. the offense isnt tough at all to replace.

get 6 to 8 points from your new center, get about 3 points from levert, and find someone to takes foyes starting spot to give you 14 points a game.

I can confidently state that this Brooklyn team would not be better this year if Noel was playing center instead of Lopez...It is mind boggling to think so and Noel is not even that good on defense..The gap on the defensive end between Noel and Lopez would have to be massive in which it is not....Noel is no where close to Jordan or Whiteside and only this type of defense at the center position can make you ignore a 20ppg center.

it would be enormous. its not that noel is anything great. its that lopez is as bad as it gets in pick and rolls and switching. we DONT EVEN ATTEMPT to switch or trap or blitz or show and recover. there are tons of strategies that are just out the window. with noel you can do more and from a TEAM defensive perspective it makes an enormous difference

we would be 5-10 wins better with noel (or anyone capable of those things)

keep in mind Lopez averaged 20.5ppg while playing without a real PG for 2/3 of the season...A fully healthy Lin would heighten Lopez's stats.....Unless you can get 2 good free agent, It will be extremely hard to replace Lopez's scoring.

Brooklyn went 0-7 when Lopez rested and gave up more points while scoring much less as oppose to when he's on the floor...

If your claim is true that his offense does not make up for his PnR defense, Brooklyn should be much better when he's off the floor..That should had been obvious when watching the games...His scoring does make a huge difference, specially when you take into account his 35% 3pt shooting and his post-up offense.

Unless brooklyn can sign Hill or Milsap, they will be a terrible offensive team next year IF they trade Lopez for a low draft pick...

As much as I love Lin, you shouldn't count on him to consistently give you 20 a night, and LeVert is still a few year away..I don't expect him to score much even next year..maybe 11-13 ppg...So where exactly will the points come from with no #1 option on offense?

Maybe you think the Euro guy Tadostic can score 15ppg..I seriously doubt that..This guy is probably the new Sergio Rodriguez with terrible defense and not much scoring.

[Prokorov]

keep in mind Lopez averaged 20.5ppg while playing without a real PG for 2/3 of the season...A fully healthy Lin would heighten Lopez's stats.....Unless you can get 2 good free agent, It will be extremely hard to replace Lopez's scoring.

His PPG werent any higher with Lin. just like they werent higher when dwill was playing like an allstar. and 20.5 ppg isnt really impressive. again its not like we need to replace the scoring output of a cousins or derozan or thomas.

and again, we need to start shifting that scoring load to our wings soon anyhow. your not gonna win at a high level with your center scoring 20 a game while your wings get you 5ppg and 8ppg. get an extra 15 points from those spots and have your new center give you 4 or 6. thats what you ideally want. I think Levert can get to 12 ppgs next year and if we get a reddick/porter/KCP/whomever they should be able to get 14-15 ppg

Brooklyn went 0-7 when Lopez rested and gave up more points while scoring much less as oppose to when he's on the floor...

when you have a 20 win team and remove ANY starter your going to lose basically every game. we had a what 1-28 stretch without lin?

If your claim is true that his offense does not make up for his PnR defense, Brooklyn should be much better when he's off the floor..That should had been obvious when watching the games...His scoring does make a huge difference, specially when you take into account his 35% 3pt shooting and his post-up offense.

No because hamilton is terrible at PnR defense as well and overall our bigs outside lopez are bench/dleague level. we dont have a long athletic guy who can blitz pick and rolls.... a MUCH better example is when lopez went down and KG mooved to the 5 and we blitz pick and rolls all over the place and had the most success weve seen in brooklyn.

Scoring is meh... easy to replace that on the wings.

[quote[
Unless brooklyn can sign Hill or Milsap, they will be a terrible offensive team next year IF they trade Lopez for a low draft pick...[/quote]

we were a terrible offensive team with lopez this year. and again, it doesnt matter its about development. finding scoring is alot easier then finding a defensive anchor and building the chemistry need to rotate as a team once your big and pg trap a pick and roll.

As much as I love Lin, you shouldn't count on him to consistently give you 20 a night, and LeVert is still a few year away..I don't expect him to score much even next year..maybe 11-13 ppg...So where exactly will the points come from with no #1 option on offense?

We dont need lin to give us 20 and and levert coul easily go from 8 to 12 ppg in year two.

Maybe you think the Euro guy Tadostic can score 15ppg..I seriously doubt that..This guy is probably the new Sergio Rodriguez with terrible defense and not much scoring.

foye gave us a 5 ppg... whoever our new SG is should easily be able to double that.... and when i say new SG i mean longterm SG not short term SG so it doesnt need to be the guy we get this offseason.

People are talking like Lopez is kareem or david robinson scoring 25-30 a night.

[MrDollarBills]

If we bring in a wing that can replace that 20 pts a night I'm with you.

Not bringing in that player, and saying that we can patch together that 19-25 pts Lopez gives us plus the shooting, that's a wee bit hopeful.

[Prokorov]

If we bring in a wing that can replace that 20 pts a night I'm with you.

Not bringing in that player, and saying that we can patch together that 19-25 pts Lopez gives us plus the shooting, that's a wee bit hopeful.

I dont think its hopeful at all.

i dont see why with 4-6 more FGA per game levert can score 3 or 4 more points.

i dont think finding a wing to score 13-15 a game is really all that tough.

I dont think asking our new center to score 6 points even without touches is tough. at our pace and an athletic roll man for line he'd get 3 baskets a game i think.


people are making it out like we are replacing the scoring of kareem or something.

[bws94]

If we bring in a wing that can replace that 20 pts a night I'm with you.

Not bringing in that player, and saying that we can patch together that 19-25 pts Lopez gives us plus the shooting, that's a wee bit hopeful.

I dont think its hopeful at all.

i dont see why with 4-6 more FGA per game levert can score 3 or 4 more points.

i dont think finding a wing to score 13-15 a game is really all that tough.

I dont think asking our new center to score 6 points even without touches is tough. at our pace and an athletic roll man for line he'd get 3 baskets a game i think.


people are making it out like we are replacing the scoring of kareem or something.

Not the scoring of Kareem or Hakeem, but one of the best scoring centers in the league. And now he's a stretch center. There aren't a lot of high scorers on this team. LeVert may take a few more seasons if he gets there, and there are no Korvers on this team.

I'd like to just try adding a big 4 to this team and seeing what happens. The team has chemistry with Lopez and continuity counts for something. As well as Lopez can carry the scoring loads some nights. Lin may have to become more of a scorer as well, bump up his 14.5 to 17.

[Prokorov]

Not the scoring of Kareem or Hakeem, but one of the best scoring centers in the league.

Thats not saying much since teams dont want scoring from that spot today and not many centers score. points all count the same no matter where they come from. we arent losing a top 10 scorer here.

And now he's a stretch center. There aren't a lot of high scorers on this team. LeVert may take a few more seasons if he gets there, and there are no Korvers on this team.

when you shed lopez 22 million that goes along way towards getting a new starting SG who can score

I'd like to just try adding a big 4 to this team and seeing what happens. The team has chemistry with Lopez and continuity counts for something. As well as Lopez can carry the scoring loads some nights. Lin may have to become more of a scorer as well, bump up his 14.5 to 17.

we dont have chemistry though. we run a defensive system that avoids rotations and switching at all costs. lopez just sits 10 feet pick on all pick rolls and the gaurd always goes over the screen. thats not chemistry its a system designed to never have to play team defense.

We need to play modern defense and we need a modern center.

[Packers+NetsWIN]

If we bring in a wing that can replace that 20 pts a night I'm with you.

Not bringing in that player, and saying that we can patch together that 19-25 pts Lopez gives us plus the shooting, that's a wee bit hopeful.

I dont think its hopeful at all.

i dont see why with 4-6 more FGA per game levert can score 3 or 4 more points.

i dont think finding a wing to score 13-15 a game is really all that tough.

I dont think asking our new center to score 6 points even without touches is tough. at our pace and an athletic roll man for line he'd get 3 baskets a game i think.


people are making it out like we are replacing the scoring of kareem or something.

But you are forgetting that lopez spaces the floor which makes it easier for guys like levert and rhj to attack the basket. The type of center you want sounds like he will be mostly restricted to scoring in the paint.

And I agree that it is a little hopeful that the nets will find a 13-15 point wing that fits mark's culture, will not be as big of a liability on the perimeter as lopez is in the pick and roll defense, can be had on a reasonable contract, can shoot the 3 at a decent clip to fit Atkinson's offense, and is willing to come here if an unrestricted FA or will be let go by his team if a restricted FA

[Prokorov]

But you are forgetting that lopez spaces the floor which makes it easier for guys like levert and rhj to attack the basket. The type of center you want sounds like he will be mostly restricted to scoring in the paint.

Then find another player to stretch the floor. bring in stretch PF or get a new sniper like reddick at SG.

[Packers+NetsWIN]

But you are forgetting that lopez spaces the floor which makes it easier for guys like levert and rhj to attack the basket. The type of center you want sounds like he will be mostly restricted to scoring in the paint.

Then find another player to stretch the floor. bring in stretch PF or get a new sniper like reddick at SG.

Even with a stretch 4 the center still clogs the paints. And keeping lopez doesnt stop us from getting reddick so they point is moot.

Additionally, getting a stretch 4 means rhj goes to the bench and I think based on the 2nd half of last season, rhj deserves next season to show if he can become a fulltime starting powerforward

[Prokorov]

But you are forgetting that lopez spaces the floor which makes it easier for guys like levert and rhj to attack the basket. The type of center you want sounds like he will be mostly restricted to scoring in the paint.

Then find another player to stretch the floor. bring in stretch PF or get a new sniper like reddick at SG.

Even with a stretch 4 the center still clogs the paints. And keeping lopez doesnt stop us from getting reddick so they point is moot.

Additionally, getting a stretch 4 means rhj goes to the bench and I think based on the 2nd half of last season, rhj deserves next season to show if he can become a fulltime starting powerforward

lol.... so i guess like the other 29 teams in the league clog the paint. how do they every score!!!!

here is the thing about "clogging the paint" if you drive and the center helps that leaves your center open for an easy dunk.

i get if your like the bulls where your PG/SG/C cant shoot it causes spacing issues. or like with wallace/evans where your PF/SF cant shoot.

but you dont need 5 shooters on the floor to achieve spacing. you really just need 3. 4 gives you even better spacing.

RHJ going to the bench isnt a bad thing. he is more of a bench guy anyhow.

[Packers+NetsWIN]

Then find another player to stretch the floor. bring in stretch PF or get a new sniper like reddick at SG.

Even with a stretch 4 the center still clogs the paints. And keeping lopez doesnt stop us from getting reddick so they point is moot.

Additionally, getting a stretch 4 means rhj goes to the bench and I think based on the 2nd half of last season, rhj deserves next season to show if he can become a fulltime starting powerforward

lol.... so i guess like the other 29 teams in the league clog the paint. how do they every score!!!!

here is the thing about "clogging the paint" if you drive and the center helps that leaves your center open for an easy dunk.

i get if your like the bulls where your PG/SG/C cant shoot it causes spacing issues. or like with wallace/evans where your PF/SF cant shoot.

but you dont need 5 shooters on the floor to achieve spacing. you really just need 3. 4 gives you even better spacing.

RHJ going to the bench isnt a bad thing. he is more of a bench guy anyhow.

The other 29 teams? The majority of teams have a least one starting big that can shoot.

So you either want to hinder or at the very minimum prolong rhj's potential by sending him to the bench, which I dont vote for. Or you want to go get patton, which would require a trade up and then send rhj (Patton and rhj cant start together) to the bench creating another starting gap the nets will have to fill at powerforward

[Prokorov]

Even with a stretch 4 the center still clogs the paints. And keeping lopez doesnt stop us from getting reddick so they point is moot.

Additionally, getting a stretch 4 means rhj goes to the bench and I think based on the 2nd half of last season, rhj deserves next season to show if he can become a fulltime starting powerforward

lol.... so i guess like the other 29 teams in the league clog the paint. how do they every score!!!!

here is the thing about "clogging the paint" if you drive and the center helps that leaves your center open for an easy dunk.

i get if your like the bulls where your PG/SG/C cant shoot it causes spacing issues. or like with wallace/evans where your PF/SF cant shoot.

but you dont need 5 shooters on the floor to achieve spacing. you really just need 3. 4 gives you even better spacing.

RHJ going to the bench isnt a bad thing. he is more of a bench guy anyhow.

The other 29 teams? The majority of teams have a least one starting big that can shoot.

dude you JUST said even with a stretch 4 we would clog the paint! now its "as long as you have a starting big that can shoot". you literally responded to me when i said "we can bring in a stretch 4"

So you either want to hinder or at the very minimum prolong rhj's potential by sending him to the bench, which I dont vote for. Or you want to go get patton, which would require a trade up and then send rhj (Patton and rhj cant start together) to the bench creating another starting gap the nets will have to fill at powerforward

im fine starting RHJ nd patton or whomever since its not about winning yet its about rebuilding and as long as we have 3 other shooters i think we would be fine anyhow. and if not you sit RHJ at that point. no issus with that.

im not sure why we have to tie ourselves in nots to keep an enormous defensive liability on the floor who prevents us from playing a modern brand of defense.

Look at what the bucks are doing to an excellent toronto team just by having a center who can trap everything or switch everything and have a team of long athletic guys who rotate well.

scoring is easy to find... achieving excellent modern team defense is not.

[Packers+NetsWIN]

lol.... so i guess like the other 29 teams in the league clog the paint. how do they every score!!!!

here is the thing about "clogging the paint" if you drive and the center helps that leaves your center open for an easy dunk.

i get if your like the bulls where your PG/SG/C cant shoot it causes spacing issues. or like with wallace/evans where your PF/SF cant shoot.

but you dont need 5 shooters on the floor to achieve spacing. you really just need 3. 4 gives you even better spacing.

RHJ going to the bench isnt a bad thing. he is more of a bench guy anyhow.

The other 29 teams? The majority of teams have a least one starting big that can shoot.

dude you JUST said even with a stretch 4 we would clog the paint! now its "as long as you have a starting big that can shoot". you literally responded to me when i said "we can bring in a stretch 4"

So you either want to hinder or at the very minimum prolong rhj's potential by sending him to the bench, which I dont vote for. Or you want to go get patton, which would require a trade up and then send rhj (Patton and rhj cant start together) to the bench creating another starting gap the nets will have to fill at powerforward

im fine starting RHJ nd patton or whomever since its not about winning yet its about rebuilding and as long as we have 3 other shooters i think we would be fine anyhow. and if not you sit RHJ at that point. no issus with that.

im not sure why we have to tie ourselves in nots to keep an enormous defensive liability on the floor who prevents us from playing a modern brand of defense.

Look at what the bucks are doing to an excellent toronto team just by having a center who can trap everything or switch everything and have a team of long athletic guys who rotate well.

scoring is easy to find... achieving excellent modern team defense is not.

Sorry for the confusion on what I said, I said that with the impression of keeping rhj as the starting 4. But you cleared that up by saying you are okay with rhj and Patton starting together. I don't agree with them being able to start together and being productive though. They don't compliment each other very well and that means the nets would absolutely HAVE TO get a sniper to plug in as the other starting wing. So I think it would be very difficult to find a 13-15 point wing, who fits Mark's culture, who fits atkinson's scheme as a sniper, who plays at least solid perimeter defense, who is affordable, and if an unrestricted FA willing to come here or a restricted FA is willing to be let go by his respective team.

I understand defense is a focal point but as you stated the nezt couple of years are about development. Double teams the post get the other guys better looks and when he stretches the floor it gives guys lanes to drive to the basketball which rhj loves

And it helps when the other guy trapping is a superstar like giannis. Wish we had one of those lol