Draft Combine discussion thread

[DirtyDez]

I don't see Anthony Davis filling out too much more over the course of his career. I think he'll be in the 230 range thru his prime which is fine for a PF. He'll be a great fit next to Okafor.

[jman3134]

As for Drummond/Leonard, I think that both have a lot of potential. Drummond had a far worse college season than Leonard's second year. But, he also has moments where you think he's going to start taking over games. I think the mental aspect of the game held him back last year. Leonard also has a lot of raw talent that can be developed. Should be drafted higher than people are expecting right now.

And Leonard had the worse freshman year of anyone that is a first round prospect. It is silly to compare someone's freshman year to someone's sophomore year. Real scouts compare people on a equal basis then try to gauge the rate in which a player should grow.

?? Are you going to be another extremist who deflates the value of a solid sophomore season to prop up an underachieving player? Seriously, real scouts are able to determine player value independent of comparisons.

I was clearly stating the obvious with regard to Leonard's sophomore season. I didn't assert that this means that he is a better draft prospect or that he will be selected higher in this year's draft. I don't feel that either will occur.

And yes, you are right that real scouts account for player development. But, there is no reason to entirely discount one's only season at the college level. He's extremely talented, but the mental component to his game needs a lot of work.

[Superiorblogman]

As for Drummond/Leonard, I think that both have a lot of potential. Drummond had a far worse college season than Leonard's second year. But, he also has moments where you think he's going to start taking over games. I think the mental aspect of the game held him back last year. Leonard also has a lot of raw talent that can be developed. Should be drafted higher than people are expecting right now.

And Leonard had the worse freshman year of anyone that is a first round prospect. It is silly to compare someone's freshman year to someone's sophomore year. Real scouts compare people on a equal basis then try to gauge the rate in which a player should grow.

?? Are you going to be another extremist who deflates the value of a solid sophomore season to prop up an underachieving player? Seriously, real scouts are able to determine player value independent of comparisons.

I was clearly stating the obvious with regard to Leonard's sophomore season. I didn't assert that this means that he is a better draft prospect or that he will be selected higher in this year's draft. I don't feel that either will occur.

And yes, you are right that real scouts account for player development. But, there is no reason to entirely discount one's only season at the college level. He's extremely talented, but the mental component to his game needs a lot of work.

What is extreme about facts. Go find me a single player that is going to go in the 1st rd this year that had a freshman season as bad as Leonard? Are you going to be the true extremists that seeks to lesson the value of everyone just to build up one person? Why was everyone else so much more effective than Leonard as freshmen?

[jman3134]

I mean, there is an obvious answer to your question: he wasn't as good in his freshman year as he was last season. Improvement.

On the flipside, you could argue that those players did not improve as much as Leonard did. It's not about facts, it's about your outlook.

[Superiorblogman]

I mean, there is an obvious answer to your question: he wasn't as good in his freshman year as he was last season. Improvement.

On the flipside, you could argue that those players did not improve as much as Leonard did. It's not about facts, it's about your outlook.

So, you are telling me a player that will be playing a position that is notorious for taking a while to develop, mixed with the fact that the player is a slow developer compared to his peers deserves all this talk of being top 10, top 5, moving up? The guy is very likely to be big time garbage through his first contract just like BJ Mullens, Koufus, and plenty of other examples. Why do you guys think a team is going to be so high on a guy that will most likely not even develop for them?

[black bart]

Drummond is second. I don't know how you don't take those measurements second

[peachbucket]

What is extreme about facts. Go find me a single player that is going to go in the 1st rd this year that had a freshman season as bad as Leonard? Are you going to be the true extremists that seeks to lesson the value of everyone just to build up one person? Why was everyone else so much more effective than Leonard as freshmen?

You do understand that Leonard barely played as a freshman because he wasn't physically ready. He was actually still growing his freshman year and wasn't yet strong enough to play center. He was also a guard in high school and was still learning the center position. Not to mention that he was playing behind a solid senior. That's a bit different than Drummand who has been physically developed and playing his position for YEARS.

[jman3134]

I mean, there is an obvious answer to your question: he wasn't as good in his freshman year as he was last season. Improvement.

On the flipside, you could argue that those players did not improve as much as Leonard did. It's not about facts, it's about your outlook.

So, you are telling me a player that will be playing a position that is notorious for taking a while to develop, mixed with the fact that the player is a slow developer compared to his peers deserves all this talk of being top 10, top 5, moving up? The guy is very likely to be big time garbage through his first contract just like BJ Mullens, Koufus, and plenty of other examples. Why do you guys think a team is going to be so high on a guy that will most likely not even develop for them?

Where did you get that he is a slow developer? It can be argued that such a big jump from his freshman to his sophomore season is a quick development/adjustment to the college level. The problem you are having is that you're not separating your opinion from the reality of the situation. If you think he is bad, attack an aspect of his game, not the fact that he had a bad freshman season in college. Plenty of players are late bloomers.

[ManualRam]

Drummond is second. I don't know how you don't take those measurements second

because of everything else outside of those measurements

[black bart]

Drummond is second. I don't know how you don't take those measurements second

because of everything else outside of those measurements

6'11 in shoes. 7'6 wingspan. 38 inch vert. 280 pounds. If he puts in the effort, even if he sucks at basketball. He would be ben wallace on the defensive end

[SonOfMars]

measurements are soo overrated it rediculous

These kids clearly can play basketball, thats why they;re in the position that they're in..

If they "dominated" in college with these same measurements...I dont see them being too much of a major factor in the NBA

[EvanZ]

Here are measurement similarities that I calculated:

[ManualRam]

Drummond is second. I don't know how you don't take those measurements second

because of everything else outside of those measurements

6'11 in shoes. 7'6 wingspan. 38 inch vert. 280 pounds. If he puts in the effort, even if he sucks at basketball. He would be ben wallace on the defensive end

or he could play much smaller than those numbers would indicate because he doesnt have the right mentality.

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Greg Oden at 7'0, 285




Dwight Howard at 6'11, 265



What's bynum playing at, 275-285 or so right now? at 7'1:



Andre Drummond at apparently 6'11 285-290 pounds:



He's the shortest and by far the thinnest... definitely way heavier though!

He's actually taller than Dwight was at the same age, and the weight difference is in their legs, Drummond has tree trunks for legs.












Drummond could realistically gain 20lbs in his upper body and play at 300lbs, his base (legs) are similar to Shaq, who didn't have twig legs.

[MalonesElbows]

Drummond is second. I don't know how you don't take those measurements second

This. Plus most 270 lb guys are lucky to have a 30' vertical, and Drummond has a 38

[7-Day Dray]

measurements are soo overrated it rediculous

These kids clearly can play basketball, thats why they;re in the position that they're in..

If they "dominated" in college with these same measurements...I dont see them being too much of a major factor in the NBA

+1000 I don't know how so many people can ignore their play on the court and just go by combine numbers to indicate if they're a player or not.

[dballislife]

size, length, and athleticism matter a lot in basketball

[NoDopeOnSundays]

measurements are soo overrated it rediculous

These kids clearly can play basketball, thats why they;re in the position that they're in..

If they "dominated" in college with these same measurements...I dont see them being too much of a major factor in the NBA

+1000 I don't know how so many people can ignore their play on the court and just go by combine numbers to indicate if they're a player or not.

Because sometimes the measurements tell you that some guys just won't cut it a the next level.

Michael Beasley is a glaring example of this, had people just gone by his college dominance he would have been the number 1 pick. He was physically dominating at PF in college, got to the next level and had to make the change to SF because he was only 6"8 (listed @ 6"10) and not particularly long.

If you redid that draft McGee, Lopez and Hibbert all should have gone before him, but too many questions about motor for Lopez, how raw McGee was, or how unathletic Hibbert was meant you couldn't draft them over him. All of those guys were longer, taller and better prospects at the next level because of their measurements. Imagine how much better Miami would be if they picked any of those 3 guys regardless of the questions...

[hype_2004]

Drummond is second. I don't know how you don't take those measurements second

This. Plus most 270 lb guys are lucky to have a 30' vertical, and Drummond has a 38

Thus kid will be a monster imagine being 300 lbs with speed, agility and vertical of a SF, if this doesn't warrant consideration for the no.1 pick then I don't know what is.

[7-Day Dray]

Drummond is second. I don't know how you don't take those measurements second

This. Plus most 270 lb guys are lucky to have a 30' vertical, and Drummond has a 38

Thus kid will be a monster imagine being 300 lbs with speed, agility and vertical of a SF, if this doesn't warrant consideration for the no.1 pick then I don't know what is.

Drummond does have a very wide body but didn't get much above average on standing reach, which is equally important for centers. Cousins, for instance, has 4 inches on him there. Drummond also has very small hands which is crucial for easily catching entry passes and posting up. They aren't Kwame Brown small, but they are small. Overall the measurements were neutral for Drummond in regards to expectations. I do suspect he will kill on the vertical tests though.