DragonFyre (what a sexy couple)

[Wannabe MEP]

We should have recognized the awesomeness of Dragic + Frye a long time ago.

2009-2010
On January 18, 2010, the Suns were a not-so-elite 24-17. They had lost their last 3 games, and 4 of 5. The Nash-led SSOL dream was finally gonna die. The Suns threw up a desperation heave: they benched Channing Frye. What happened? The starting crew got worse (they dropped from +7.5 to +4.0). But then Goran Dragic and Channing Frye found each other: Dragic's OffRtg leapt from 107.4 to 113.4 the rest of the way, the bench exploded, and the Suns went on a tear, going 30-11 the rest of the way. For the first time in forever, the Suns could play decent basketball without Nash on the court. The Suns swept the Spurs in the 2nd round and came within a few plays of the NBA Finals.

- Dragic-Frye 114.2 OffRtg (regular season) -- contrast with Dragic-Lopez 105.0
- Dragic-Frye 116.5 (playoffs)
- Dragic 110.5 (16th out of 252 players miniminum 50 games and 15 min/game)
- Individually, Frye led the whole league at 115.8

2010-2011
Though still in Phoenix, Dragic and Frye are separated again. Despite the freakish success of the 2nd unit, the Suns blow up that crew on Dragic: Lou and Barbosa are gone, and Duds and Frye move to the starting unit. Dragic drowns on ever-changing hacked lineups featuring the likes of Hakim Warrick, Hedo Turkoglu, and Earl Barron, and his OffRtg plummets to 99.0.

2011-2012
Dragic is gone. Starting lineup is actually pretty good still, but the bench is absolute trash. Frye leads the Suns in OffRtg with a moderate 107.7.

Dragic finally gets starter minutes in Houston when Lowry is out with an infection. While the Rockets emphasize spacing, they don't have a stretch-big like Frye, so Dragic doesn't come close to his Phoenix numbers. Still, he leads the Rockets in OffRtg (105.0).

2012-2013
Dragic returns, but this time Frye is out. No Frye plus a lot of Michael Beasley leads to the Suns being the 2nd worst offense in the NBA. Dragic leads the team in OffRtg, but now it's down to 100.5.

2013-2014
Dragic and Frye are finally reunited. They're best (significant minute) offensive pairing in the NBA that's not part of the LeBron-Chalmers-Bosh trio. Better than…

- Durant-Westbrook
- Griffin-CP3
- LeBron-Wade
- Lillard-Aldridge
- Harden-Dwight
- Curry-Klay
- Monta-Dirk
- Conley-ZBo
- Melo-Chandler
- Duncan-Parker
- Paul George-Hibbert
- Joe Johnson-Paul Pierce

…and hundreds more.

They're the top two Suns in both OffRtg (Frye 111.2, Dragic 110.4) and NetRtg (Dragic +7.4, Frye +7.3), and they're - of course - particularly effective together (OffRtg 112.7, NetRtg +9.1).

[sunsbum]

Nice post. Frye has always been a huge xfactor for us and for some reason people are always looking to **** on him.

[TASTIC]

Frye's been awful lately but I still have faith that when we need a big shot to win or tie a game, it'll go to him at the top of the key or on the corner and he'll knock a 3 down...

Dragic is finally getting the recognition he deserves, although I can't believe ESPN left him off their potential Most Improved Player list and Paul George got on there??? He seems to get mentions in all the podcasts I listen to - Short Corner 3, BS Report, The Starters...they all mention how great he's been.

I love how he just grabs the board/outlet pass and he's GONE, head down and careering towards the hope not giving a flying eff who's in the way, it's awesome to watch and he really puts other guards to shame with his reckless play barreling into the teeth of the D without a hint of flopping or milking a foul. He takes hits and gets right back up which is definitely going to gain him respect (and more importantly free throws) from the referees...

[Jdiddy701]

Channing Frye has a lot of terrible games with us. We expect a lot out of him because he's our starting power forward. I don't mind if his shots don't drop, just play defense and rebound.

[Sun Scorched]

Los Soles and I haven't always seen eye to eye - still, two things:

1. Great read Los Soles

2. Completely agree

[Calvin Klein]

Zach Lowe with some nice words about Goran and Frye too:

http://grantland.com/features/the-marc-gasol-all-stars/

[bigfoot]

I'm curious what the on-off court numbers look like for Bledsoe and Plumlee. Bledsoe seems to like playing with Plumlee and at the beginning of the season there were many more alley-oops thrown down.

[grumpysaddle]

Zach Lowe with some nice words about Goran and Frye too:

http://grantland.com/features/the-marc-gasol-all-stars/

Good stuff. I would have included Gerald Green on that list, but maybe 3 players from the same team was too much. His dunks are one thing, but he's more entertaining because of his ridiculous celebration faces after the dunks or big shots.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I527 using RealGM Forums mobile app

[Wannabe MEP]

Zach Lowe with some nice words about Goran and Frye too:

http://grantland.com/features/the-marc-gasol-all-stars/

Man, I was planning on doing a follow-up post on the whys...Lowe stole like 90% of my thunder. Definitely go read that article. Also, Lowe references this one: http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2014/02/2 ... -the-suns/. That one looks at the pick-and-roll numbers: Dragic-Frye is the best points-per-possession pair in the NBA, and Phoenix as a team leads the league as well.

[Wannabe MEP]

I'm curious what the on-off court numbers look like for Bledsoe and Plumlee. Bledsoe seems to like playing with Plumlee and at the beginning of the season there were many more alley-oops thrown down.

OffRtg: 104.3 (not very good)
DefRtg: 98.5 (very good)
NetRtg: 5.8 (pretty good)

These are early-season weighted, and offenses tend to improve throughout the season, so I'd think both the Off and Def numbers would have risen some if Bledsoe had stayed healthy. But I think this would hold anyway: Bledsoe is a very effective defender, but he's nowhere near as effective on offense as Dragic.

[mixerball]

impeccable post, as always

[Wannabe MEP]

One of the most interesting things about Dragic and Frye is how easy it is to build around them. They've been very, very effective together when surrounded by players that were otherwise barely making it in the NBA (Amundson, Tucker, Green, Barbosa, Plumlee).

Also, money is kinda sorta a little bit important. Offense is typically where the money goes. Here are some elite offensive pairings (ranked by offensive rating):

112.5 OffRtg -- LeBron-Bosh . . . . . $38.2 million
112.0 OffRtg -- CP3-Griffin . . . . . . . $35.1 million
111.9 OffRtg -- DragonFyre . . . . . . . $13.9 million
109.9 OffRtg -- Durant-Westbrook . . $32.5 million
109.9 OffRtg -- Harden-Dwight . . . . . $34.2 million

It's easy to find players that work well with them AND these two are abnormally inexpensive. Our entire current starting unit costs just 18.5 million -- that's less than, e.g., Chris Bosh…Carmelo Anthony…Amare Stoudemire.

And, out of the 30 units that have played at least 250 minutes together this season, they're ranked 2nd. For comparison's sake...

(ranked by net rating)
+12.5 . . Bledsoe-Dragic-Tucker-Frye-Plumlee . . . . . . . $18.5 million
+8.1 . . . Chalmers-Wade-LeBron-Battier-Bosh . . . . . . . $64.2 million
-7.5 . . . Westbrook-Sefolosha-Durant-Ibaka-Perkins . . $57.5 million

[bwgood77]

Zach Lowe with some nice words about Goran and Frye too:

http://grantland.com/features/the-marc-gasol-all-stars/

Man, I was planning on doing a follow-up post on the whys...Lowe stole like 90% of my thunder. Definitely go read that article. Also, Lowe references this one: http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2014/02/2 ... -the-suns/. That one looks at the pick-and-roll numbers: Dragic-Frye is the best points-per-possession pair in the NBA, and Phoenix as a team leads the league as well.

I read the first few posts, and then clicked on that Lowe link, and then that link you just posted, and read it, and came to post it because it is great stuff.

But your write up was great. When I first read your post I was thinking "I wish more national writers knew this stuff" but I guess some do.

[bwgood77]

One of the most interesting things about Dragic and Frye is how easy it is to build around them. They've been very, very effective together when surrounded by players that were otherwise barely making it in the NBA (Amundson, Tucker, Green, Barbosa, Plumlee).

Also, money is kinda sorta a little bit important. Offense is typically where the money goes. Here are some elite offensive pairings (ranked by offensive rating):

112.5 OffRtg -- LeBron-Bosh . . . . . $38.2 million
112.0 OffRtg -- CP3-Griffin . . . . . . . $35.1 million
111.9 OffRtg -- DragonFyre . . . . . . . $13.9 million
109.9 OffRtg -- Durant-Westbrook . . $32.5 million
109.9 OffRtg -- Harden-Dwight . . . . . $34.2 million

It's easy to find players that work well with them AND these two are abnormally inexpensive. Our entire current starting unit costs just 18.5 million -- that's less than, e.g., Chris Bosh…Carmelo Anthony…Amare Stoudemire.

And, out of the 30 units that have played at least 250 minutes together this season, they're ranked 2nd. For comparison's sake...

(ranked by net rating)
+12.5 . . Bledsoe-Dragic-Tucker-Frye-Plumlee . . . . . . . $18.5 million
+8.1 . . . Chalmers-Wade-LeBron-Battier-Bosh . . . . . . . $64.2 million
-7.5 . . . Westbrook-Sefolosha-Durant-Ibaka-Perkins . . $57.5 million

That's pretty amazing.

[BurningHeart]

That's pretty bad ass. I hope they have these numbers on hand when trying to lure a free agent.

[Wannabe MEP]

Breaking down DragonFyre units (ranked by net rating)

+18.9 . . DragonFyre + Bledsoe-Tucker-Markieff . . . OffRtg 118.5; DefRtg 81.4 (only 44 min)
+15.2 . . DragonFyre + Barbosa-Dudley-Amundson . ORtg 114.5; DRtg 99.3
+15.1 . . DragonFyre + Barbosa-Dudley-Amundson . ORtg 114.8; DRtg 99.8 (playoffs)
+13.8 . . DragonFyre + Bledsoe-Tucker-Plumlee . . . . ORtg 107.0; DRtg 93.1
+12.3 . . DragonFyre + GHill-Dudley-Amundson . . . . ORtg 109.3; DRtg 97.0
+11.0 . . DragonFyre + Green-Marcus-Markieff . . . . . ORtg 123.3; DRtg 112.3
+2.4 . . . DragonFyre + Green-Tucker-Plumlee . . . . . ORtg 111.0; DRtg 108.6


Secondary Creator -- Barbosa, Bledsoe

Ideal candidate is…

1) Quick creator off the dribble; second pick-and-roll option
2) Good catch-and-shoot 3-point shooter
3) Scrappy defender

Because Dragic isn't a pure PG like Nash - more of a PG/SG hybrid - he works particularly well next to ANOTHER PG/SG hybrid. That combo puts enormous pressure on the defense, with two different guards attacking the rim off the pick-and-roll. Both have to be decent off-ball 3-point shooters to maintain spacing.

Bledsoe is a phenomenal defender in this role, and he's very dangerous on offense because of his quickness and aggressiveness. If he improves his C&S game and learns to cut down turnovers a little bit, he'll be absolutely perfect.

3&D Swingman -- Dudley, Tucker

Ideal candidate is…

1) Scrappy defender/rebounder
2) Good catch-and-shoot 3-point shooter

Classic Spurs position: defensive wing who parks in the corner and knocks down 3s if you leave him alone. I think Tucker is perfect. We could spend a heck of a lot more money to get more offense from this position, but the defense/rebounding is the most important part anyway, and I just think that money is better spent elsewhere.

Defensive Big -- Lou, Plumlee, Markieff

Ideal candidate is…

1) Scrappy defender/rebounder
2) Exceptionally quick for a PF/C -- create mismatches on offense, defend quick 4s, and cover the outside of the 2-3 zone (remember 2010 playoffs?)
3) Decent pick-and-roll/pick-and-pop option
4) Decent catch-and-shoot 3-point shooter

This is the most intriguing position, in my opinion. I think the absolutely ideal candidate is a Lou/Amare/Marion-hybrid: Lou's quickness and scrappiness, Amare's pick-and-roll ability, and Marion's versatility and stretch-4 shooting ability. That complete package is incredibly difficult (impossible?) to find, but I'd be very interested in the Suns spending a lot of money to come as close as possible.

Because DragonFyre lineups have been so effective even with players at this position who are very limited offensively - i.e. Lou and Plumlee - and because Frye is not an elite defender/rebounder, I think defense/rebounding has to come first here. Where I differ from a lot of people is that I would strongly advocate that we emphasize quickness here, even at the expense of size.

[grumpysaddle]

That's a great breakdown, and I agree with you on pretty much everything in it.

[Beetlejuice]

How has this tandem worked against elite teams ? Are those OffRtg and DefRtg similarly impressive ?

[Wannabe MEP]

How has this tandem worked against elite teams ? Are those OffRtg and DefRtg similarly impressive ?

I haven't figured out how to see head-to-head lineup data like I could a couple years ago...website shut down when the guy got hired by an NBA team.

I'm pretty confident in these two:

+13.8 . . DragonFyre + Bledsoe-Tucker-Plumlee . . . . ORtg 107.0; DRtg 93.1
+15.1 . . DragonFyre + Barbosa-Dudley-Amundson . ORtg 114.8; DRtg 99.8 (playoffs)

The 1st one has had a lot of starter minutes, so they've definitely played against good units. The 2nd was in three playoff rounds, including against Popovich and Phil Jackson -- they were going against savvy, well-coached teams that had shortened the bench. I do remember looking at the data then and seeing some shocking trends, like Lou-Frye lineups absolutely destroying Gasol-Bynum lineups.

Remember those late rallies by the Suns' bench against the Spurs and Lakers' starters?

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaVMZo5YxhI[/youtube]

[Wannabe MEP]

I thought "DragonFyre" was my own coinage. I had clearly seen it before...DRK gets full credit: viewtopic.php?f=27&t=1287910#p37693076

Dragon FYRE