DuckIII wrote:League Circles wrote:DuckIII wrote:I'm not saying this because he had a great game, I'm just using the great game to reiterate a point I've already been making. Taking talent, positional diversity, two-way play, and presumed contract value into consideration, Ayo is the one we need to make sure we keep over Giddey and White in a rebuild.
Also really great to see Buzelis continue to grow and I continue to think Lavine looks really good even in, and sometimes especially in, games in which he has his foot off the offensive gas. The way he has been playing this year, taking it specific game by specific game, is the way he should have been doing it for years. It is the way he will do it if paired with a true superstar. I don't understand why NBA teams don't see this while nut-hugging guys like Booker, Beal, etc. He looks incredible this year to me.
As for these posts about how good we looked, and we did look good, these are the types of things that need to be put into a larger context. The Spurs are very deliberately not cashing in their chips in order to stay "bad" as Wemby continues to develop. That's why the only vets they've brought in were washed, but incredibly intelligent, types like Paul and the Falcon. And why they traded a lottery pick this year for future assets. They don't want to be good yet. They are the best run organization in basketball and have been for decades, so its not a surprise that they are smart and patient. But their intelligence is why we played a terrible team we played a team last night without Wemby. Every player is there to be built around him being on the floor. Without him, as of today, they suck.
Not trying to piss on the wins. I want the Bulls to keep their pick and write about it often. I don't get mad when we win and I enjoy watching them in the moment as much as anyone. Just keep in mind what you are watching.
I think most would agree with your comment on Ayo, in a vacuum, relative to Giddey and Coby. But that can be severely modified by what each of them might haul in a trade and what each of them might cost to keep on their next contract. Yes, Ayo is easily the most versatile, well balanced, and odds are the cheapest to re-sign. But his skillset is arguably the most easily replaceable and pedestrian too. Hard to argue that he's enough better than a Javonte Green type to justify paying 5-10 times the salary for, for example.
Of those three players I find his skillset the hardest to replace because it is already complete. The only thing for him to do is to continue to improve at what he is already doing well. Giddey and White both have massive holes in their games and their strengths do not adequately offset them in a way that makes them superior to Ayo. And yet I still suspect he will get the most reasonable contract.
Even mentioning a purely one dimensional scrap heap role player like Green is ridiculous even without equating them, which I realize you are not. Ayo is averaging 15/5/6/1 per 36 this year. His only real issue has been his 3 ball, and in the last 15 games following his 2/10 stinker, he's shooting the 3 at over 40%.As for the Spurs, hard to understand the praise in the context of them already being a 500 team in the strong west. If they're not trying to be good, they should be, because the evidence suggests it's too late to be bad for the purposes of it helping them. Doesn't mean they should go all in to "win now", but there's no reason to "wait" for anything. If they have opportunities to improve their long term roster now via trade or FA, they should, especially cause Wemby is on a rookie deal. If they're waiting because there aren't good options available, that's smart and might be exactly what you're saying. If they're "waiting" to draft more mid to late first rounds picks of their own that's very unwise IMO.
They are waiting on the right players and taking their time and experimenting with Wemby in order to determine what the "right" players are and how they play. Doing that isn't tanking for better picks but comes with the added value of high pick assets by not rushing to inflate their win total to compete before they are ready to do it exactly how they want to do it.
I think we mostly agree on guys like Giddey and Coby, and maybe even the Spurs (though I realize I came across like I was debating them). You're just higher on Ayo than me. He might be my second favorite Bull, and isn't bad at anything, but also isn't really that good at anything IMO. He's definitely an above average defender but not a great one (I think Javonte truly is a great defender). Ayo has not been a good perimeter shooter in his career (just OK). He's a very solid, but small and unspectacular defender who is an adequate shooter. Plays smart and has good shot selection going to the rim.
Hard to see why he'd be so much better than Javonte. There's always a perception burden for guys like Javonte who weren't drafted.
IMO, he's easily a better defender, rebounder, and cutter than Ayo, while Ayo is a better ball handler, playmaker, and slightly better shooter. Ayo is definitely better, just probably not by enough to pay him like 15 mil/year when a guy like Javonte can be had for 2 mil.
