Bulls vs Pistons 7pm CT Feb. 11 2025

[jnrjr79]

Yeah. If anything, this should’ve been happening in October. Now we just have way higher odds of landing 7-10 than we do 1-6. Which in this draft (if not all drafts), appears to be a mistake. Had we started the season aiming for the bottom of the barrel, we’d have a whopping 52% chance of top-4, instead of 26%. These new odds create more lucky breaks, but in the end, tanking aggressively and deliberately still works (which is why it’s stupid, but alas).

AK acquired a core of three #7 picks. The lone remaining pick is still an unreliable core member, 6y later. Drafting one #7 per losing season is an exhaustingly slow and uncertain method of rebuilding.

Went against the logical grain as long as possible. The only relief is Vuc’s on the roster- the master tank commander. The best worst-player-ever.

Sunk costs everywhere in the Bulls’ portfolio. Very impressive, actually. Hard to do, considering what he started with and acquired. You could’ve let a video game GM sim run and probably come out better.

Yeah, the Bulls are in pretty bad shape. I'm not sure how much more they could have done before the season to tank, because I think Zach had to demonstrate his health and quality of play before he could be traded (but there are mistakes further back in the past that really hurt them). The Pat Williams extension hurts, but it didn't hurt the tank, since he sucks.

Though I'm angry about AK's past performance, all you can do now is stop the bleeding. He's gotten control back of their 1sts, which is a start. But if KC's reporting that he doesn't want to deal Coby unless he gets an overwhelming offer is true, that's a problem.

The Bulls have Matas - that's a start. They have plenty of other guys that can have roles on a good team, but who are going to be asked to do too much here.

They should be bad enough to lose a lot for the remainder of the season. You really have to hope Philly doesn't elect to pack it in. From there, you just have to hope the lotto balls come out in your favor. This offseason, they have to unload more guys.

It can be done, but it won't be easy given how late they were to change course. AK realizing changes have to be made is positive, but obviously he's done nothing to earn any trust that he'll have the right vision forward. This offseason would be a very natural inflection point to can him and hire someone else to handle the rebuild, but I have very little hope of that.

How come Ayo always gets a pass on this board ? He is just as mediocre as Coby and his defense is overrated . He got torched last night .

I...didn't say anything about Ayo?

[Stratmaster]

Coby has no case for a starter on a good team, unreliable offensively and trash defensively.

I think a better way to state this is that Coby White isn't a top 3 player on a good team. Could he start on a title winning team? Sure. Go look historically at the 5th best starter on a lot of title teams, and Coby is better than a ton of those guys, but that's because a ton of title teams have 3 starts and the 4th/5th guys are very replaceable players.

Whether he's 4th/5th starter or 1st guy off the bench, Coby isn't a needle mover, but he's a solid contributing role player.

Yep. You put a stud defensive C with him and he doesn’t look nearly as bad on D.

I think Coby could be prettty darn good on a team like the Magic with two first options and stellar D.

Not as a starter. What would his role be? Coby is a streaky volume shooter and scorer. Perfect 6th man.

[League Circles]

I think a better way to state this is that Coby White isn't a top 3 player on a good team. Could he start on a title winning team? Sure. Go look historically at the 5th best starter on a lot of title teams, and Coby is better than a ton of those guys, but that's because a ton of title teams have 3 starts and the 4th/5th guys are very replaceable players.

Whether he's 4th/5th starter or 1st guy off the bench, Coby isn't a needle mover, but he's a solid contributing role player.

Yep. You put a stud defensive C with him and he doesn’t look nearly as bad on D.

I think Coby could be prettty darn good on a team like the Magic with two first options and stellar D.

Not as a starter. What would his role be? Coby is a streaky volume shooter and scorer. Perfect 6th man.

Orlando's guards aren't very good. I think he'd be an upgrade as a starter there.

[MrSparkle]

My main takeaway from last night's game is that I'm happy about it. I wanted the Bulls to tank. This is it. I also want them to be disabused of the notion that they already have in place much of a core to build around.

I feel like I can't ask for a tank and then get mad about blowouts.

Yeah. If anything, this should’ve been happening in October. Now we just have way higher odds of landing 7-10 than we do 1-6. Which in this draft (if not all drafts), appears to be a mistake. Had we started the season aiming for the bottom of the barrel, we’d have a whopping 52% chance of top-4, instead of 26%. These new odds create more lucky breaks, but in the end, tanking aggressively and deliberately still works (which is why it’s stupid, but alas).

AK acquired a core of three #7 picks. The lone remaining pick is still an unreliable core member, 6y later. Drafting one #7 per losing season is an exhaustingly slow and uncertain method of rebuilding.

Went against the logical grain as long as possible. The only relief is Vuc’s on the roster- the master tank commander. The best worst-player-ever.

Sunk costs everywhere in the Bulls’ portfolio. Very impressive, actually. Hard to do, considering what he started with and acquired. You could’ve let a video game GM sim run and probably come out better.

Yeah, the Bulls are in pretty bad shape. I'm not sure how much more they could have done before the season to tank, because I think Zach had to demonstrate his health and quality of play before he could be traded (but there are mistakes further back in the past that really hurt them). The Pat Williams extension hurts, but it didn't hurt the tank, since he sucks.

Though I'm angry about AK's past performance, all you can do now is stop the bleeding. He's gotten control back of their 1sts, which is a start. But if KC's reporting that he doesn't want to deal Coby unless he gets an overwhelming offer is true, that's a problem.

The Bulls have Matas - that's a start. They have plenty of other guys that can have roles on a good team, but who are going to be asked to do too much here.

They should be bad enough to lose a lot for the remainder of the season. You really have to hope Philly doesn't elect to pack it in. From there, you just have to hope the lotto balls come out in your favor. This offseason, they have to unload more guys.

It can be done, but it won't be easy given how late they were to change course. AK realizing changes have to be made is positive, but obviously he's done nothing to earn any trust that he'll have the right vision forward. This offseason would be a very natural inflection point to can him and hire someone else to handle the rebuild, but I have very little hope of that.

Well, he could have traded Zach, Vuc and Lonzo by December, when they were all demonstrating they can play. He could’ve also made the moves for picks instead of Giddey. But oh well.

[MrSparkle]

I get that quicker feet >>> lumbering size these days (on defense… well, and offense)…

But Billy takes it to a whole new level by entertaining 2 SMALL PGs with 2 SMALL combo guards… with an undersized & unathletic C in Vuc (or plain undersized Jalen)… and an unathletic Giddey in the frontcourt…

Seeing lineup combinations of Tre, Jevon, Coby and Ayo… with Giddey being the most versatile heavy “wing” on the floor… it’s truly the most insane thing in NBA basketball.

Adding Cooper Flag to the rotation might just … not work.

PG Lonzo 18 mpg
SG Coby 30 mpg
SF Giddey 30 mpg
PF Matas 23 mpg
C Vuc 34 mpg

6 Ayo - 28 mpg
7 Tre (resigned) 17 mpg
8 Jevon 13 mpg
9 Pat 21 mpg
10 Flag 18 mpg / DNP
11 Jalen 11 mpg
12 Phillips 10 mpg

[jnrjr79]

Yeah. If anything, this should’ve been happening in October. Now we just have way higher odds of landing 7-10 than we do 1-6. Which in this draft (if not all drafts), appears to be a mistake. Had we started the season aiming for the bottom of the barrel, we’d have a whopping 52% chance of top-4, instead of 26%. These new odds create more lucky breaks, but in the end, tanking aggressively and deliberately still works (which is why it’s stupid, but alas).

AK acquired a core of three #7 picks. The lone remaining pick is still an unreliable core member, 6y later. Drafting one #7 per losing season is an exhaustingly slow and uncertain method of rebuilding.

Went against the logical grain as long as possible. The only relief is Vuc’s on the roster- the master tank commander. The best worst-player-ever.

Sunk costs everywhere in the Bulls’ portfolio. Very impressive, actually. Hard to do, considering what he started with and acquired. You could’ve let a video game GM sim run and probably come out better.

Yeah, the Bulls are in pretty bad shape. I'm not sure how much more they could have done before the season to tank, because I think Zach had to demonstrate his health and quality of play before he could be traded (but there are mistakes further back in the past that really hurt them). The Pat Williams extension hurts, but it didn't hurt the tank, since he sucks.

Though I'm angry about AK's past performance, all you can do now is stop the bleeding. He's gotten control back of their 1sts, which is a start. But if KC's reporting that he doesn't want to deal Coby unless he gets an overwhelming offer is true, that's a problem.

The Bulls have Matas - that's a start. They have plenty of other guys that can have roles on a good team, but who are going to be asked to do too much here.

They should be bad enough to lose a lot for the remainder of the season. You really have to hope Philly doesn't elect to pack it in. From there, you just have to hope the lotto balls come out in your favor. This offseason, they have to unload more guys.

It can be done, but it won't be easy given how late they were to change course. AK realizing changes have to be made is positive, but obviously he's done nothing to earn any trust that he'll have the right vision forward. This offseason would be a very natural inflection point to can him and hire someone else to handle the rebuild, but I have very little hope of that.

Well, he could have traded Zach, Vuc and Lonzo by December, when they were all demonstrating they can play. He could’ve also made the moves for picks instead of Giddey. But oh well.

I don't really agree that he could have traded Zach in December. There's a reason most moves don't happen until close to the deadline.

The Lonzo extension is a great move, so there's nothing to be mad about there. And the report out today was that the Lonzo options involved taking back multiple years of salary (though in combination with some sort of protected first), so without knowing who/how much/how long, it's tough to assess whether any deal for him was actually good.

The Vooch thing - ugh.

[Chi town]

I think a better way to state this is that Coby White isn't a top 3 player on a good team. Could he start on a title winning team? Sure. Go look historically at the 5th best starter on a lot of title teams, and Coby is better than a ton of those guys, but that's because a ton of title teams have 3 starts and the 4th/5th guys are very replaceable players.

Whether he's 4th/5th starter or 1st guy off the bench, Coby isn't a needle mover, but he's a solid contributing role player.

Yep. You put a stud defensive C with him and he doesn’t look nearly as bad on D.

I think Coby could be prettty darn good on a team like the Magic with two first options and stellar D.

Not as a starter. What would his role be? Coby is a streaky volume shooter and scorer. Perfect 6th man.

He’s a floor spacing shooter than can get his own shot. He’s a solid starter/6th man that can win you games when he’s hot. His 3 ball has gravity and volume.

[Chi town]

I get that quicker feet >>> lumbering size these days (on defense… well, and offense)…

But Billy takes it to a whole new level by entertaining 2 SMALL PGs with 2 SMALL combo guards… with an undersized & unathletic C in Vuc (or plain undersized Jalen)… and an unathletic Giddey in the frontcourt…

Seeing lineup combinations of Tre, Jevon, Coby and Ayo… with Giddey being the most versatile heavy “wing” on the floor… it’s truly the most insane thing in NBA basketball.

Adding Cooper Flag to the rotation might just … not work.

PG Lonzo 18 mpg
SG Coby 30 mpg
SF Giddey 30 mpg
PF Matas 23 mpg
C Vuc 34 mpg

6 Ayo - 28 mpg
7 Tre (resigned) 17 mpg
8 Jevon 13 mpg
9 Pat 21 mpg
10 Flag 18 mpg / DNP
11 Jalen 11 mpg
12 Phillips 10 mpg

Flagg would lead the team in mins and be our starting 4 day one. Buz our starting 3. Nothing else would really matter for the future.

[Invictus88]

That's a bingo.

Not sure I'm ready to make any big statement on the potential of Cade and the Pistons. But they seem to be plateauing as a .500 team. On this board that's commonly called NBA Hell.

He's certainly putting up more numbers, on a clearly higher usage rate. And starting next year Cade becomes a $40mm player, slowly growing each season till it's legit $50mm per year.

The Pistons won 14 games last year. This is an absolute step up from last season. It's NBA hell if you're a veteran team without any future going forward, it is 100% not the same thing as recent previous years Bulls teams.

This is a funny conversation to have after that butt whooping, but I do think it's an interesting conversation.

The Pistons are having a MUCH better season, no doubt about it.

3 players in the top 6 of win shares and those same 3 players are top 5 minutes are 100% veteran players - Tobias Harris, Malik Beasley, and Tim Hardway Jr (I'm also curious where Schroder nets out in minutes per game going forward for them).

So yes they've drastically improved from their 14 win season to now looking like a team that will finish around .500. Largely it seems on the backs of the veteran players they added to the roster.

Again, the Bulls jumped from 22 wins to 31 wins to 46 wins after adding veterans like Vuc, DeRozan, etc. and again - many here classified this as NBA Hell. We had young players on the roster during this time, same as the Pistons.


Pistons top 5 in total minutes

2023-24:
Ivey
Cunningham
Duren
Thompson
Stewart


2024-25
Cunningham
Harris
Basley
Hardway
Duren

It's clear to me that the Pistons growth can be in large part attributed to the addition and playing time of veteran players, and that their jump in wins has not come on the backs of youth development.

I'm curious what Detroit looks like as these veteran players move on, and their young players start making significant money that eats up large portions of their cap preventing them from adding veterans like these.

Pistons fan here (I come in peace).

It's true that Harris and THJ have stepped up in specific instances that have led to wins. However, it's not been on a consistent basis. They've had just as many (if not more) instances where they have disappeared in games. Neither are projected as long term additions and instead are stopgaps while some of their younger players (Ausar Thompson and Ron Holland) grow into their roles. Ausar was slowed by his absence due to clotting issues and is just now starting to flash (see this last game) and may even still be under light minute restriction still. Holland is just 19 and still making solid but inconsistent contibutions; primarily on the defensive end.

Both Holland and Ausar have stayed in the game in place of a struggling Harris or THJ and held their own in those spots. It might not be time yet to relegate either of the vets to the bench yet but it won't be surprising when it happens; especially with Ausar as of late.

Ivey played well enough prior breaking his leg (clean break, no tendon tears) with improved outside shooting, playmaking and defense to warrant being extended; which was a question heading into this year.

Beasley has stated on multiple occasions that he he wants to stay here and has had the same discussions with our front office.

Looking forward to a more competitive game today. Good luck!

[drosestruts]

The Pistons won 14 games last year. This is an absolute step up from last season. It's NBA hell if you're a veteran team without any future going forward, it is 100% not the same thing as recent previous years Bulls teams.

This is a funny conversation to have after that butt whooping, but I do think it's an interesting conversation.

The Pistons are having a MUCH better season, no doubt about it.

3 players in the top 6 of win shares and those same 3 players are top 5 minutes are 100% veteran players - Tobias Harris, Malik Beasley, and Tim Hardway Jr (I'm also curious where Schroder nets out in minutes per game going forward for them).

So yes they've drastically improved from their 14 win season to now looking like a team that will finish around .500. Largely it seems on the backs of the veteran players they added to the roster.

Again, the Bulls jumped from 22 wins to 31 wins to 46 wins after adding veterans like Vuc, DeRozan, etc. and again - many here classified this as NBA Hell. We had young players on the roster during this time, same as the Pistons.


Pistons top 5 in total minutes

2023-24:
Ivey
Cunningham
Duren
Thompson
Stewart


2024-25
Cunningham
Harris
Basley
Hardway
Duren

It's clear to me that the Pistons growth can be in large part attributed to the addition and playing time of veteran players, and that their jump in wins has not come on the backs of youth development.

I'm curious what Detroit looks like as these veteran players move on, and their young players start making significant money that eats up large portions of their cap preventing them from adding veterans like these.

Pistons fan here (I come in peace).

It's true that Harris and THJ have stepped up in specific instances that have led to wins. However, it's not been on a consistent basis. They've had just as many (if not more) instances where they have disappeared in games. Neither are projected as long term additions and instead are stopgaps while some of their younger players (Ausar Thompson and Ron Holland) grow into their roles. Ausar was slowed by his absence due to clotting issues and is just now starting to flash (see this last game) and may even still be under light minute restriction still. Holland is just 19 and still making solid but inconsistent contibutions; primarily on the defensive end.

Both Holland and Ausar have stayed in the game in place of a struggling Harris or THJ and held their own in those spots. It might not be time yet to relegate either of the vets to the bench yet but it won't be surprising when it happens; especially with Ausar as of late.

Ivey played well enough prior breaking his leg (clean break, no tendon tears) with improved outside shooting, playmaking and defense to warrant being extended; which was a question heading into this year.

Beasley has stated on multiple occasions that he he wants to stay here and has had the same discussions with our front office.

Looking forward to a more competitive game today. Good luck!

Thanks for sharing your perspective on the current Pistons team.

My intention is certainly not to rain on your parade at all.

I think the Bulls community, especially here, has a very negative outlook on the future of the team, and in many cases holds strong "grass is greener on the other side" feelings about teams like your Pistons.

You mentioned Ivey playing well enough to warrant an extension. That well enough is 17,4, and 4 on 46/41/73 shooting splits with a TS% of 57%

Coby White, just two years older, is putting up 18, 3, and 4.6 on 43/37/89 shooting splits with a TS% of 58.5% and many here view him as a failed player who the team should trade for whatever it can get.

Coby has been more efficient (TS%) than Ivey in each of his last 3 seasons.

And again, you view Ivey as a building block of your future. Bulls fans are ready to move on from White.


Zach LaVine is "a career loser who is overpaid", De'Aaron Fox is somehow worth LaVine and 3 1sts in a trade. Fox has 2 more career playoff wins than Zach, and has never had a season with a TS% over 60% while Zach has done so in 4 of his last 5 seasons. I stand by my statement that if Zach is a career loser, then so is Fox.

In my view, Bulls players are viewed more negatively than their peers. Particularly it seems, amongst the Bulls fanbase.

[Dan Z]

I tried to tell y'all. Dude has been washed for 2 years.

Maybe he gets his jumper back, but that still doesn't make him any good.

It's odd how fast he fell off (which was before the Bulls got him). Was it an injury?

His jumper died after that first year in Sac and never recovered. He shot .402 on 510 3PA, the next year was .361 on 341 3PA and it was only an 11 game difference.

He is a decent rebounder but they needed someone who could stretch the floor and play defense. His jumper fell off and then he couldn't do either. Then Keon Ellis played good-to-great defense and it was difficult to justify Huerter's minutes. Mike Brown eventually shelved Ellis this year but Huerter still only started a third of the games.

Once Brown was gone it was over. Ellis was back in the lineup and Doug Christie looked like a genius for playing a guy who was shooting better and was capable of lock down defense (at times).

Huerter was shooting 1.4 for 4.8 attempts per game.. in 21mpg. Dude was out there letting it fly, but they just weren't falling.

What gets me is he was saying he thinks our system would be better for him, but the dude was getting half of those looks wide open. I assume his issue is all mental and he just lost his confidence but I watched enough of him on the Kings. I just hope his jumper comes around well enough to let us trade him in the offseason. I am sure he'd fare better playing as a deep bench guy on a playoff team, but personally I would rather have Sam Hauser in the role.

EDIT: To be fair I am pretty sure his jumper was fine to start last season, but then tanked after Christmas. I would have to check game logs but I swear he had some decent games to start last year.

EDIT 2: Looked it up and his best 12 three point made games were all until February. He even had a 7-12 heater against Indy. But yeah the latest two of those 12 outings were Feb 7th and 22nd. After that he didn't have more than three made 3s in a game. Dude had 11 games w/ 4 or more threes all of last season..

EDIT 3: And I had to look it up for this year. 7 games of 4 or more threes made and the last one was on 12/08.. So in the last two years he has had 18 games with 4 or more threes.. out of 108 and all 18 were before this time last year.

EDIT 4: I made myself depressed going down this rabbit hole.

Your edits...haha!

I agree with you. Hopefully he improves a bit so the Bulls can trade him. If not he only has one more year on his deal.

[Dan Z]

Exactly this route takes you to the real NBA hell and most of the time you still won’t build a championship team.

They're in NBA Hell right now

Plus, wendell and Patrick could have been SGA and Hali if we knew how to draft properly. The plan worked fine the execution sucked ass

I'm still surprised that they didn't draft Mikal Bridges. He seemed like such a "Bulls pick" at that time.

[Muzbar]

The Pistons won 14 games last year. This is an absolute step up from last season. It's NBA hell if you're a veteran team without any future going forward, it is 100% not the same thing as recent previous years Bulls teams.

This is a funny conversation to have after that butt whooping, but I do think it's an interesting conversation.

The Pistons are having a MUCH better season, no doubt about it.

3 players in the top 6 of win shares and those same 3 players are top 5 minutes are 100% veteran players - Tobias Harris, Malik Beasley, and Tim Hardway Jr (I'm also curious where Schroder nets out in minutes per game going forward for them).

So yes they've drastically improved from their 14 win season to now looking like a team that will finish around .500. Largely it seems on the backs of the veteran players they added to the roster.

Again, the Bulls jumped from 22 wins to 31 wins to 46 wins after adding veterans like Vuc, DeRozan, etc. and again - many here classified this as NBA Hell. We had young players on the roster during this time, same as the Pistons.


Pistons top 5 in total minutes

2023-24:
Ivey
Cunningham
Duren
Thompson
Stewart


2024-25
Cunningham
Harris
Basley
Hardway
Duren

It's clear to me that the Pistons growth can be in large part attributed to the addition and playing time of veteran players, and that their jump in wins has not come on the backs of youth development.

I'm curious what Detroit looks like as these veteran players move on, and their young players start making significant money that eats up large portions of their cap preventing them from adding veterans like these.

Pistons fan here (I come in peace).

It's true that Harris and THJ have stepped up in specific instances that have led to wins. However, it's not been on a consistent basis. They've had just as many (if not more) instances where they have disappeared in games. Neither are projected as long term additions and instead are stopgaps while some of their younger players (Ausar Thompson and Ron Holland) grow into their roles. Ausar was slowed by his absence due to clotting issues and is just now starting to flash (see this last game) and may even still be under light minute restriction still. Holland is just 19 and still making solid but inconsistent contibutions; primarily on the defensive end.

Both Holland and Ausar have stayed in the game in place of a struggling Harris or THJ and held their own in those spots. It might not be time yet to relegate either of the vets to the bench yet but it won't be surprising when it happens; especially with Ausar as of late.

Ivey played well enough prior breaking his leg (clean break, no tendon tears) with improved outside shooting, playmaking and defense to warrant being extended; which was a question heading into this year.

Beasley has stated on multiple occasions that he he wants to stay here and has had the same discussions with our front office.

Looking forward to a more competitive game today. Good luck!

It's weird that people are underselling your young guys, Ivey was having a great season until he got hurt and Cade has had himself a breakout year and is an All-star. The Pistons have done exactly what they should have done, brought in vets to help their young guys.

You've got a good young core and perfect vets to compliment them.

[Dominator83]

They're in NBA Hell right now

Plus, wendell and Patrick could have been SGA and Hali if we knew how to draft properly. The plan worked fine the execution sucked ass

I'm still surprised that they didn't draft Mikal Bridges. He seemed like such a "Bulls pick" at that time.

Especially since they went with a low ceiling guy anyway. Absolutely hated the WCJ pick in real time. We weren't in position to be going with high floor low ceiling. We needed to swing for the fences. I wanted MPJ. Still a loss compared to SGA but still way better than WCJ and was also worth way more in a trade. WCJs value was literally as a throw in with the Vuc trade.

[Dan Z]

Plus, wendell and Patrick could have been SGA and Hali if we knew how to draft properly. The plan worked fine the execution sucked ass

I'm still surprised that they didn't draft Mikal Bridges. He seemed like such a "Bulls pick" at that time.

Especially since they went with a low ceiling guy anyway. Absolutely hated the WCJ pick in real time. We weren't in position to be going with high floor low ceiling. We needed to swing for the fences. I wanted MPJ. Still a loss compared to SGA but still way better than WCJ and was also worth way more in a trade. WCJs value was literally as a throw in with the Vuc trade.

SGA would've changed the direction of the franchise. Would he help "unlock" MarkkeneNs potential?

MPJ or Mikal would at least give the Bulls better assets to work with (or keep them).

[Ccwatercraft]

Someone give a reason to care about this team anymore. And don’t say Buzelis.

Matas

You guys were caring about this team (besides Matas) before? I stopped that in 2018....I care about a few players and thats about it, the management, owners, coaches, all of it makes it impossible to root for the organization currently

You do you.

I have LP and I'm watching about 70 games a year and at least 1 live minimum. 3 live games this season including flying to Cleveland, we had a great time!

[drosestruts]

This is a funny conversation to have after that butt whooping, but I do think it's an interesting conversation.

The Pistons are having a MUCH better season, no doubt about it.

3 players in the top 6 of win shares and those same 3 players are top 5 minutes are 100% veteran players - Tobias Harris, Malik Beasley, and Tim Hardway Jr (I'm also curious where Schroder nets out in minutes per game going forward for them).

So yes they've drastically improved from their 14 win season to now looking like a team that will finish around .500. Largely it seems on the backs of the veteran players they added to the roster.

Again, the Bulls jumped from 22 wins to 31 wins to 46 wins after adding veterans like Vuc, DeRozan, etc. and again - many here classified this as NBA Hell. We had young players on the roster during this time, same as the Pistons.


Pistons top 5 in total minutes

2023-24:
Ivey
Cunningham
Duren
Thompson
Stewart


2024-25
Cunningham
Harris
Basley
Hardway
Duren

It's clear to me that the Pistons growth can be in large part attributed to the addition and playing time of veteran players, and that their jump in wins has not come on the backs of youth development.

I'm curious what Detroit looks like as these veteran players move on, and their young players start making significant money that eats up large portions of their cap preventing them from adding veterans like these.

Pistons fan here (I come in peace).

It's true that Harris and THJ have stepped up in specific instances that have led to wins. However, it's not been on a consistent basis. They've had just as many (if not more) instances where they have disappeared in games. Neither are projected as long term additions and instead are stopgaps while some of their younger players (Ausar Thompson and Ron Holland) grow into their roles. Ausar was slowed by his absence due to clotting issues and is just now starting to flash (see this last game) and may even still be under light minute restriction still. Holland is just 19 and still making solid but inconsistent contibutions; primarily on the defensive end.

Both Holland and Ausar have stayed in the game in place of a struggling Harris or THJ and held their own in those spots. It might not be time yet to relegate either of the vets to the bench yet but it won't be surprising when it happens; especially with Ausar as of late.

Ivey played well enough prior breaking his leg (clean break, no tendon tears) with improved outside shooting, playmaking and defense to warrant being extended; which was a question heading into this year.

Beasley has stated on multiple occasions that he he wants to stay here and has had the same discussions with our front office.

Looking forward to a more competitive game today. Good luck!

It's weird that people are underselling your young guys, Ivey was having a great season until he got hurt and Cade has had himself a breakout year and is an All-star. The Pistons have done exactly what they should have done, brought in vets to help their young guys.

You've got a good young core and perfect vets to compliment them.

"Ivey was having a great season until he got hurt" - please help my understand what you consider to be "Great" about Ivey's season?

Zach LaVine is having a FAR better season than Ivey

Coby White is having a better season than Ivey

Ayo's post All-star break last year was better than Ivey season this year

To call Ivey's season great is wild to me.


The Pistons, so far this season, are winning games because of Cade Cunningham and veteran role players. And by winning games, I mean 2 games over .500 with pretty much no chance of winning a playoff series. If we were in this situation you all would be calling it NBA Hell.

[dougthonus]

He doesn't have great size for his position, not great basketball iq and plays little defense and can be a streaky shooter. That screams 7th man role.

I don't know know that you've really surveyed the landscape of what the 7th best guy is on most teams, but it's a guy a lot worse than Coby White IMO.

[Muzbar]

Pistons fan here (I come in peace).

It's true that Harris and THJ have stepped up in specific instances that have led to wins. However, it's not been on a consistent basis. They've had just as many (if not more) instances where they have disappeared in games. Neither are projected as long term additions and instead are stopgaps while some of their younger players (Ausar Thompson and Ron Holland) grow into their roles. Ausar was slowed by his absence due to clotting issues and is just now starting to flash (see this last game) and may even still be under light minute restriction still. Holland is just 19 and still making solid but inconsistent contibutions; primarily on the defensive end.

Both Holland and Ausar have stayed in the game in place of a struggling Harris or THJ and held their own in those spots. It might not be time yet to relegate either of the vets to the bench yet but it won't be surprising when it happens; especially with Ausar as of late.

Ivey played well enough prior breaking his leg (clean break, no tendon tears) with improved outside shooting, playmaking and defense to warrant being extended; which was a question heading into this year.

Beasley has stated on multiple occasions that he he wants to stay here and has had the same discussions with our front office.

Looking forward to a more competitive game today. Good luck!

It's weird that people are underselling your young guys, Ivey was having a great season until he got hurt and Cade has had himself a breakout year and is an All-star. The Pistons have done exactly what they should have done, brought in vets to help their young guys.

You've got a good young core and perfect vets to compliment them.

"Ivey was having a great season until he got hurt" - please help my understand what you consider to be "Great" about Ivey's season?

Zach LaVine is having a FAR better season than Ivey

Coby White is having a better season than Ivey

Ayo's post All-star break last year was better than Ivey season this year

To call Ivey's season great is wild to me.


The Pistons, so far this season, are winning games because of Cade Cunningham and veteran role players. And by winning games, I mean 2 games over .500 with pretty much no chance of winning a playoff series. If we were in this situation you all would be calling it NBA Hell.

Iveys numbers are up across the board, he's averaging career highs in points (17.4), fg% (46) & 3pt% (40).

I should hope that LaVine is having a far better season than Ivey seeing as he's in his 11th season and Ivey is in his 3rd.

How exactly is Coby having a better season than Ivey? Ivey is shooting more efficiently from the floor (Coby has him beat on FT%) he's averaging 0.8 less ppg than Coby and 0.6 less apg than Coby.

Ivey is only in his 3rd season, maybe I shouldn't have said 'great' but since we like to argue semantics, Ivey was definitely having a good season.

[Stratmaster]

Yep. You put a stud defensive C with him and he doesn’t look nearly as bad on D.

I think Coby could be prettty darn good on a team like the Magic with two first options and stellar D.

Not as a starter. What would his role be? Coby is a streaky volume shooter and scorer. Perfect 6th man.

He’s a floor spacing shooter than can get his own shot. He’s a solid starter/6th man that can win you games when he’s hot. His 3 ball has gravity and volume.

Agree on the 6th man. Agree to disagree on the starter.