Just Some Big Men Stats

[Leslie Forman]

I've stopped trying to figure out the front court logic and have succumbed to the theory that the Reinsdorf/Arm Tellem relationship is running the show.

You know who's also a Tellem client? LaMarcus Aldridge.

I guess Arn Paxson forgot to tell Reinsdorf that.

[kyrv]

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Yea but that group is the best group we have, and the best shot we have at winning. If your best players are slumping what can you do? They are your best players. Can't just sit them down unless you want to lose worse, and more frequently. Their going to get to keep playing through the slump, because its the best shot we have at winning and making the playoffs, which apparently is what Paxson wants to do.

If he didn't, he'd be looking at next season already.

We don't know that.

If your best players are slumping, they aren't necessariiy the best players.

I understand, the current coaches would rather lose with the vets than win with the young players. I personally don't trust Boylan to give the team the infamous 'best chance to win'.

Ben Wallace is currently NOT one of the Bulls best five players. Neither is Duhon.

[Red Larrivee]

We don't know that.

If your best players are slumping, they aren't necessariiy the best players.

I understand, the current coaches would rather lose with the vets than win with the young players. I personally don't trust Boylan to give the team the infamous 'best chance to win'.

Ben Wallace is currently NOT one of the Bulls best five players. Neither is Duhon.

All players go through slumps though. Just because a player is slumping doesn't mean he isn't one of your best chances at winning. Slumps happen to everyone in sports. Good and bad.

I doubt the coaching staff is against the young group. If Noah/Tyrus/Sefolosha presented a greater chance at winning, they would play them good minutes. Why do you think they started playing Gray more? Because he was bringing some type of inside scoring, which the team needed. It did help for a small stretch, but it's hasn't been as effective recently.

I agree that Wallace is not one of the Bulls best 5 players, and same goes for Duhon. But if we're talking the 5 best.

Deng, Gordon, Nocioni, Hinrich, Smith.

Is what you have. So if these guys are slumping, you wouldn't play them?

[Rerisen]

I stick with my premise that Pax asked Boylan to showcase Kirk, Gordon, Wallace, Smith, Noc and Duhon to boost their trade value before the deadline (and maybe get some of them out of their early season slumps).

We can hope. But I think the last thing you would want to do with Wallace to showcase him, is play him. His decline is a one way trip unfortunately. And while his numbers have picked up of late, too often they are just a function of large minutes and no other players around to grab those rebounds. Teams that break down his play over the course of a entire game, will find many things to hate, even beyond his career weakness of not being able to score worth a lick. Which itself has even deteriorated and reached historically bad levels.

[DuckIII]

Red, we are 37 games into the season. I think its pretty fair to say that Hinrich, Duhon and Wallace are doing a bit more than "slumping". They are just flat out having bad seasons.

And when a player is having a bad season, and players behind him are proven to be more productive in the minutes they get, then yes you bench the veteran and the the reserve a shot.

[Red Larrivee]

Red, we are 37 games into the season. I think its pretty fair to say that Hinrich, Duhon and Wallace are doing a bit more than "slumping". They are just flat out having bad seasons.

And when a player is having a bad season, and players behind him are proven to be more productive in the minutes they get, then yes you bench the veteran and the the reserve a shot.

Who behind Hinrich and Duhon has proven to be more productive? Sefolosha just started playing better in these past 2 games. That's about it. Theres no option there, unless you want to play Griffin (no) or bring up JamesOn Curry (yes).

[DuckIII]

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Who behind Hinrich and Duhon has proven to be more productive? Sefolosha just started playing better in these past 2 games. That's about it. Theres no option there, unless you want to play Griffin (no) or bring up JamesOn Curry (yes).

Care to ask the same question about Ben Wallace?

And the answer to the question you did ask is Thabo. The only reason Thabo is getting his shot now is because Hinrich is hurt. Prior to that, Duhon was shooting like 12% as a starting guard for a long stretch of games, and Thabo still wasn't getting a fair shot out there.

Thats absurd.

Red, this organization couldnt be **** up player rotations and development any more than it is. Its a total disaster.

[Magilla_Gorilla]

Who behind Hinrich and Duhon has proven to be more productive? Sefolosha just started playing better in these past 2 games. That's about it. Theres no option there, unless you want to play Griffin (no) or bring up JamesOn Curry (yes).

Sefolosha has played well in the last 4 games, and in 5 of the last 6. So why did it take 30 games to get him minutes?

[BR0D1E86]

I agree that Wallace is not one of the Bulls best 5 players, and same goes for Duhon.

Ben Wallace is definitively not the best center on this team and if you consider that Joe Smith can play center minutes he's easily the 4th best.

I can see an argument for Duhon earning backup minutes because he's performed well there as recently as the start of this season and it's arguable how many guys on the team have PG skills.

Wallace is a flat out disaster offensively and is bad defensively. He isn't earning a single minute of his time.

[Red Larrivee]

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Care to ask the same question about Ben Wallace?

And the answer to the question you did ask is Thabo. The only reason Thabo is getting his shot now is because Hinrich is hurt. Prior to that, Duhon was shooting like 12% as a starting guard for a long stretch of games, and Thabo still wasn't getting a fair shot out there.

Thats absurd.

Red, this organization couldnt be **** up player rotations and development any more than it is. Its a total disaster.

Yea, but for the majority of the season, when Sefolosha was getting time, he was stinking it up. He couldn't hit a shot to save his life, and was damn near useless out there. So of course their going to go back to Duhon, if he's not producing.

Duhon has been useless too after starting, and it sucks, but with Hinrich injured, theres no option, unless you want to put Gordon back in the starting lineup, which the team doesn't look like they want to do right now.

And with the Wallace/Noah/Thomas thing, it's just about Thomas/Noah knowing their role with the team, understanding the plays, and gaining more control. And for the most part they haven't shown doing that when in the game. So if their not, Skiles or Boylan just went back to the guy who doesn't need to have his hand held.

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Sefolosha has played well in the last 4 games, and in 5 of the last 6. So why did it take 30 games to get him minutes?

Because he stunk last season, and when he was getting played this season, he still stunk. Did we forget about the series of Bust-o-losha threads all over this board when he was getting time earlier?

[BR0D1E86]

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And with the Wallace/Noah/Thomas thing, it's just about Thomas/Noah knowing their role with the team, understanding the plays, and gaining more control. And for the most part they haven't shown doing that when in the game. So if their not, Skiles or Boylan just went back to the guy who doesn't need to have his hand held.

I disagree entirely. Ben Wallace is out of position, late or doesn't even bother to try on his rotations defensively more than anyone on this team.

We changed our entire defensive scheme for him. He hates fronting so we let him play behind his man. He has done that at an increasing rate since he's been here. The massive erosion in his game and effort have led to the complete collapse of this defense.

Our schemes for helping are entirely different now and we're forced to bring guards down for double teams more often because Ben Wallace is routinely getting roasted.

Plenty of guys are having poor efforts defensively this year, but the scheme itself has changed for the worse and it's largely due to Ben Wallace.

[JeremyB0001]

:roll: I posted the exact same stats that people were posting about our current guys. I'm just showing how substandard our big man arsenal (if you can call it that) really is.

Yeah? I didn't see anyone posting per minute stats based on 78 minute sample sizes or selectively choosing which seasons to post. Also, someone supplemented the numbers with PER which provides a lot of context.