The tough discussion to have about Joakim Noah

[FriedRise]

I don't see Thibs benching Noah. He'll start when he comes back. We won many games with him as a starter back in December, so if intensity, effort, and energy resemble anything like last night's game vs Spurs, the team will only benefit.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/KCJHoop/status/558684476180406272[/tweet]
I doubt he'll actually play tonight, but it sounds like he's making great progress.

[kyrv]

Starter material or first big off the bench ?

Tough discussion? It's been discussed non-stop for weeks.

[kyrv]

You don't win DPOY coming off the bench.

Noah and Gasol should be the most feared front line in the NBA - and when Noah is healthy it will be

I agree but Noah is not healthy.

[vvgotgame19]

I think we'd be better off with him coming off the bench. Sub him in for Gasol around the 6min mark and play with Taj for 4min and bring in Niko. Try to limit Gasol's minutes some and more importantly the time they are on the floor together. Mainly try to stick with Gasol/Gibson, Noah/Gibson or Noah/Mirotic lineups to optimize our front court.

Edit: Tho I will say even tho they haven't been the best pairing, Gasol/Noah pairing does have potential to work better. If Noah was hitting that mid range jumper like last year, he and Gasol could potentially have a nice high low game going on. But again, that's predicated to Noah not being a scoring liability, which looks unlikely this year.

[kodo]

IMO there is little basketball reason to start our current Noah over Taj.

Rim Protection
This has been covered before but Noah has dropped off in terms of rim protection while Taj hasn't.
Opponent FG% at rim, non-guards, players 25+ minutes.
Taj #3 (43.6%)
Pau #12 (47.8%)
Noah #34 (51.9%)

Notably, Noah is behind Channing Frye and Jared Sullinger.

(also interesting that Rose is among the best in the league at allowing 42.1%)

Rebounding
Looking at Contested REB percentage (because in theory even Nazr can grab an uncontested rebound):
Players 25+ minutes:
Taj #3 (54.7%)
Noah #4 (54.5%)

Neither are really great offensive players, although I'd give the edge to Taj there too.

Gibson provides far better, elite rim protection, the same rebounding, and better offense, and meshes with Gasol better as a natural PF/C combo.

The only reason to start Noah IMO is purely sentimental.
It can be re-examined when he's healthy...IF he can recover from major knee surgery at 100%.

[transplant]

Noah's a starter.

The Bulls not long ago won 10 of 11 with Noah and Gasol starting.

I'm not thrilled with the synergy these two bigs have goin' on, but I have a deep respect for their respective basketball IQs. I hope they can optimize the situation 'cause the Bulls O needs Gasol and the Bulls D needs Noah.

[WindyCityBorn]

He's the heart of this team. He starts. Make it work.

I'd rather win than force something for sentimental reasons. Or let him start then sub out at the 8 minute mark if it is that huge of a deal.

[keloms]

Honestly, I think the Bulls should listen to trade offers.

Story is he wouldn't even pass a trade physical so they couldn't move him if they tried.

Do you have a link to this story?

It was from this weeks Bulls Zone podcast, Believe the Noah talk starts around the 52:00 mark.

http://mybullszone.podomatic.com/enclos ... -08_00.mp3

[DuckIII]

Is this thread about explaining to my kids about Joakim Noah having sex?

[DanTown8587]

So we watch the Bulls play listless basketball for consecutive games without Noah (though he was here for some of that) and people want to relegate him to the bench? While I want to play Pau and Noah very little together, when anywhere close to healthy they're the two best big men on the roster and should be able to make it work for a few minutes a game.

I have no problem bringing him back to full health from the bench but I think he needs to play as a starter.

[vxmike]

Micro-fracture surgery will effectively end Jo's career. While he might be able to return, he won't be effective.

Agreed. I don't think even think he would be marginally effective. Noah's usefulness is entirely predicated on his athleticism and quickness. Even this season he's basically been a zero. He can't even finish around the rim anymore without lift.

As an undersized Center with no refined offensive skills he's useless without his physical tools. I hate to say this since he's been the heart of the Bulls for years, but it's simply a fact.

Bigs without speed and athleticism need strength, length or offensive skill. Unfortunately Jo has none of these

[RomeDaDome]

I think it's about time that Bulls management starts listening to this board...

Really tho, I think Noah is best starting because of the defensive necessity and the fact that he can make the extra pass. We're all disappointed in his season but we should've known he wasn't going to be 100%... Hopefully, he can be healthy enough to give it his all in the playoffs because with everybody healthy, this team is definitely better than a 4 seed.

[Red Larrivee]

He's the heart of this team. He starts. Make it work.

I'd rather win than force something for sentimental reasons. Or let him start then sub out at the 8 minute mark if it is that huge of a deal.

I'm of the mindset that you typically start your best players unless you have a Manu Ginobili, Jamal Crawford case where they're such an impact off the bench that it works. The Bulls don't really have that and Noah is the reigning DPOY. I get that he's been mediocre and gimpy this season, but I still believe in him to contribute when it matters most.

[Hachmabash]

He's the heart of this team. He starts. Make it work.

I'd rather win than force something for sentimental reasons. Or let him start then sub out at the 8 minute mark if it is that huge of a deal.

I'm of the mindset that you typically start your best players unless you have a Manu Ginobili, Jamal Crawford case where they're such an impact off the bench that it works. The Bulls don't really have that and Noah is the reigning DPOY. I get that he's been mediocre and gimpy this season, but I still believe in him to contribute when it matters most.

What makes Manu and Jamal so special? Why do we assume Noah wouldnt have a similar impact? We all know that he always brings a ton of energy.

[Rerisen]

Looks like Thibs is going to start him but keep his minutes down for a while (or just 1 game we'll see).

But seems like a fairly safe plan. I'd be giving Taj the bigger of the minutes between them though until Noah proves he is really healthy and impacting the game at a high level consistently.