The Derrick Rose Thread- (Chess not Checkers)

[Rerisen]

Rose needs to go back to the mid-range. He can get it almost as much as the open three but its a much easier shot.

[2Chainz]

Does anyone watch highlights of Rose's MVP season? He was routinely making plays that were more athletic than anything he's done this year. I would think if he really was going to go back to at least 90% of his peak years he would occasionally make plays like back then.

This might be subjective so I expect to be challenged on this but look at these highlights:



(And I believe this was on a bum ankle)

Then compare to this:


This was one of his best games this year.

He just looks slower.

He was freakishly fast and athletic, now he's just fast and athletic. His body can't do it at the same gear anymore. And that tiny difference in speed is enough to change him from elite to good. This is why Rose is desperately trying to force the 3. If he can be a threat from 3, the defense opens up more and he can drive. This is also why there are games that Rose just doesn't drive the ball at all. My theory is because the defense is set up to limit Rose penetration. Back in the day, it didn't matter how the defense played, Rose could get to the basket. But now, But the days of Rose consistently finding success by breaking down the defense and finishing at the rim is gone.

His last knee surgery was almost 16 months ago. He's been playing in games for 6 months now. If that extra level Rose was out there, we'd have seen it by now.

(Also this is all hypothesising based on what I've seen and a few basketball clips. I am by no means amongst the smartest basketball fans on the forum, so please challenge my thinking, I welcome it....but I think I might be right).

Honestly the best he looked physically all year was this game. It was really, really sick. He looked like his old self, beating everyone to the loose ball. The offensive board over Love and the putback. I'm hoping after the ankle and hamstring he realized he needed to preserve himself for the stretch run

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPSSIW0n3To[/youtube]

And then this game happened:

[youtube]http://youtu.be/t0aHCIzZH10[/youtube]

That one didn't have him attacking and explosive like the Cleveland game. The Cleveland game looked kind of like the essence of what made him great until he rolled that ankle.

[Payt10]

Does anyone watch highlights of Rose's MVP season? He was routinely making plays that were more athletic than anything he's done this year. I would think if he really was going to go back to at least 90% of his peak years he would occasionally make plays like back then.

This might be subjective so I expect to be challenged on this but look at these highlights:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4f4c4_kHx8[/youtube]

(And I believe this was on a bum ankle)

Then compare to this:

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iROzEkAQ3rU[/youtube]

This was one of his best games this year.

He just looks slower.

He was freakishly fast and athletic, now he's just fast and athletic. His body can't do it at the same gear anymore. And that tiny difference in speed is enough to change him from elite to good. This is why Rose is desperately trying to force the 3. If he can be a threat from 3, the defense opens up more and he can drive. This is also why there are games that Rose just doesn't drive the ball at all. My theory is because the defense is set up to limit Rose penetration. Back in the day, it didn't matter how the defense played, Rose could get to the basket. But now, But the days of Rose consistently finding success by breaking down the defense and finishing at the rim is gone.

His last knee surgery was almost 16 months ago. He's been playing in games for 6 months now. If that extra level Rose was out there, we'd have seen it by now.

(Also this is all hypothesising based on what I've seen and a few basketball clips. I am by no means amongst the smartest basketball fans on the forum, so please challenge my thinking, I welcome it....but I think I might be right).

Been saying this all year. He's not the same athletically anymore. He shows you something every once in a while but not as often as he used to. I don't think we will ever see the Joel Anthony dunk again from him. He much more of a below the rim player. Even some of the stuff he used to do off the dribble breaking ankles, stopping on a dime and reversing direction, hell, even splitting a pick and roll..

He's gone from elite in the athletic category to very good, IMO.

[ADDinChicago]

I think we should give him the full season before writing him off. It can take years to get back (if you can get back) to where you were after one horrific injury, let alone two of them.

He's gotten better as the season has gone on. But he, like the entire team, is very unpredictable every night.

[AirP.]

So you think they wanted him to take that 3? One of the more clutch players in the NBA? (while healthy)

This year.... yes.

http://www.82games.com/1415/14CHI2.HTM#clutch

On his Orlando 3, you can absolutely see that they were concerned with Jimmy Butler taking the 3, they weren't concerned with Rose, there was some bad defense there by Payton but you can see the concern wasn't there till after he made the shot, nobody was within 5 feet of Rose when he shot the ball.

The orlando play was really, really bad defense by the rookie. He got caught trying to go to the ball and he broke down the whole defense.

Sure but O'Quinn sure didn't care if Rose shot the 3, he guarded against the drive yet Orlando absolutely cared if Butler shot the ball from 3pt range.

[2Chainz]

This year.... yes.

http://www.82games.com/1415/14CHI2.HTM#clutch

On his Orlando 3, you can absolutely see that they were concerned with Jimmy Butler taking the 3, they weren't concerned with Rose, there was some bad defense there by Payton but you can see the concern wasn't there till after he made the shot, nobody was within 5 feet of Rose when he shot the ball.

The orlando play was really, really bad defense by the rookie. He got caught trying to go to the ball and he broke down the whole defense.

Sure but O'Quinn sure didn't care if Rose shot the 3, he guarded against the drive yet Orlando absolutely cared if Butler shot the ball from 3pt range.

It was bad defense by the Magic. Jo came up high to set a screen for Jimmy and O'Quinn stayed home. Payton for whatever reason came over to double it was just porous defense and wasn't much strategic about it. It's how a team loses a game up 7 with under a minute left

[AirP.]

The orlando play was really, really bad defense by the rookie. He got caught trying to go to the ball and he broke down the whole defense.

Sure but O'Quinn sure didn't care if Rose shot the 3, he guarded against the drive yet Orlando absolutely cared if Butler shot the ball from 3pt range.

It was bad defense by the Magic. Jo came up high to set a screen for Jimmy and O'Quinn stayed home. Payton for whatever reason came over to double it was just porous defense and wasn't much strategic about it. It's how a team loses a game up 7 with under a minute left

Ok... just seems odd that nobody rotated over to stop Rose from shooting yet they did for Butler. Odd how that worked out, you'd almost think if they were that worried about Rose maybe they may have had a better defender on him.

[2Chainz]

Sure but O'Quinn sure didn't care if Rose shot the 3, he guarded against the drive yet Orlando absolutely cared if Butler shot the ball from 3pt range.

It was bad defense by the Magic. Jo came up high to set a screen for Jimmy and O'Quinn stayed home. Payton for whatever reason came over to double it was just porous defense and wasn't much strategic about it. It's how a team loses a game up 7 with under a minute left

Ok... just seems odd that nobody rotated over to stop Rose from shooting yet they did for Butler. Odd how that worked out, you'd almost think if they were that worried about Rose maybe they may have had a better defender on him.

What are you talking about he was bringing the ball up the court? And Jo came to set him a screen. Payton defended Rose the whole game defense is supposed to be his specialty as a long armed point guard coming into the league.

[TheGOATRises007]

I think the Cavs game before the break was his best game in terms of performance and athleticism.

[BullsInBuffalo]

Rose needs to go back to the mid-range. He can get it almost as much as the open three but its a much easier shot.

So true.

I get so frustrated when he gets away from his mid range game.

[BullsInBuffalo]

No team begs someone to shoot a wide open 3 with 20 seconds to go when they are up 4.

That is a two score scenario regardless. Of course teams will encourage a terrible 3 pt shooter to shoot a 3. I'm not saying every team in every similar situation will, but its obviously one of several rational strategies under the circumstances. Particularly given that you are operating in "don't foul, don't stop the clock" mode at that point, defensively.

[kyrv]

Derrick Rose will win Finals MVP. Book it.

Dude.

[McBulls]

I posted two years ago at this time of year that the Bulls best move would be to trade Rose for whatever they could get in return.

That's still my opinion, in spite of the one or two all-star level games he's played in this month.

The problem is mental, not physical. Rose is getting bad advice from his entourage, and is following it. He seems to be incapable of adapting his game to team needs. Currently, the team does NOT need him as a #1 option. He clearly does not realize that fact.

When he physically starts to decline in the next year or two, his play will fall off a cliff. And take the Bullls, Thibs and the FO with him.

I was right two years ago. But the problem has been, and clearly is, primarily physical, accompanied by the complex mental Gymnastics that career-ending injuries evoke.

Sorry, DRose.

The flame that burns twice as bright burns half as long. -- Lao Tzu

[drbg43]

Derrick Rose will win Finals MVP. Book it.

Dude.

I'm sorry. I'll show myself out.

[bennjuiced34]

I posted two years ago at this time of year that the Bulls best move would be to trade Rose for whatever they could get in return.

That's still my opinion, in spite of the one or two all-star level games he's played in this month.

The problem is mental, not physical. Rose is getting bad advice from his entourage, and is following it. He seems to be incapable of adapting his game to team needs. Currently, the team does NOT need him as a #1 option. He clearly does not realize that fact.

When he physically starts to decline in the next year or two, his play will fall off a cliff. And take the Bullls, Thibs and the FO with him.

I was right two years ago. But the problem has been, and clearly is, primarily physical, accompanied by the complex mental Gymnastics that career-ending injuries evoke.

Sorry, DRose.

The flame that burns twice as bright burns half as long. -- Lao Tzu

Except he wasn't playing like a #1 option. He was building his body and his game for the playoffs and it happened.

Maybe it's insanity and delusion on my part, but I refuse to give up on him. I choose to believe we won the lottery for a reason and this can't be end of this story.