Why didnt Bulls make a trade for legit PG?

[TheStig]

The biggest issue was not retaining Augustin. He could have been kept for a relatively cheap amount and would have done just fine as a starter. We always knew Rose getting injured again was a big possibility. Brooks has been very solid, but he's no DJ.

DJ would have had to take a paycut. The Piston's paid him more than the room exception we had after signing Gasol and Mirotic.

He may have not taken the slight paycut, but we know he wanted to return and many believe that he would have taken the cut. As far as we know, the Bulls never seriously tried to retain him, and instead opted for waiting around for cheaper guys like Brooks.

We just don't know if he would have taken a pay cut or if the Pistons would have upped their offer a bit. Both are more probable.

I also think we will see with Rose out that there isn't a noticeable difference between Brooks and DJ in that role. I actually like Brooks ability to finish around the basket more. I like DJ but he simply wouldn't be happy getting limited minutes behind Rose.

[HomoSapien]

I agree with the possibility of Rose getting injured. But, c'mon, Augustin is no game changer.

Excuse me. He's no game changer??? Did you miss all of last season? HE was the reason we made the playoffs. That's the definition of a game changer.

[chrispatrick]

The biggest issue was not retaining Augustin. He could have been kept for a relatively cheap amount and would have done just fine as a starter. We always knew Rose getting injured again was a big possibility. Brooks has been very solid, but he's no DJ.

I do think D.J. was better in the regular season but also think Brooks will be better in the playoffs than D.J. was. I thought D.J. was easily shut down in the playoffs once the pressure ramped up and he didn't have the athleticism to adjust to it. Nate did fine because he had the athleticism to keep the pressure off of him, while Brooks isn't athletic, the craftyness in which he creates shots should carry over better than D.J.

[chrispatrick]

I agree with the possibility of Rose getting injured. But, c'mon, Augustin is no game changer.

Excuse me. He's no game changer??? Did you miss all of last season? HE was the reason we made the playoffs. That's the definition of a game changer.

Depends, was playing Augustin the game changer or was not playing Teague?

Also, Augustin got healthy right when Jimmy got healthy from his toe, so that could have been the bigger factor as well (as the Snell/Teague backcourt was beyond awful).

[Mech Engineer]

I agree with the possibility of Rose getting injured. But, c'mon, Augustin is no game changer.

Excuse me. He's no game changer??? Did you miss all of last season? HE was the reason we made the playoffs. That's the definition of a game changer.[/quote]

C'mon ....he was an average, decent smallish PG. Brooks is not greatly worse than him. Either way, you are not going anywhere with both of them especially with their defense. And, we saw how DJ was terrible against Washington. Last year was more due to Noah and Taj playing in a different gear.

Yeah, he contributed and did well to help the team in the regular season. But, logically, even Brooks could have done the same and failed the same way in the playoffs. There are obviously some differences in stats but I just disagree that the regular season could not have been saved by somebody else like Brooks last year.

[HomoSapien]

I agree with the possibility of Rose getting injured. But, c'mon, Augustin is no game changer.

Excuse me. He's no game changer??? Did you miss all of last season? HE was the reason we made the playoffs. That's the definition of a game changer.

C'mon ....he was an average, decent smallish PG. Brooks is not greatly worse than him. Either way, you are not going anywhere with both of them especially with their defense. And, we saw how DJ was terrible against Washington. Last year was more due to Noah and Taj playing in a different gear.

Yeah, he contributed and did well to help the team in the regular season. But, logically, even Brooks could have done the same and failed the same way in the playoffs. There are obviously some differences in stats but I just disagree that the regular season could not have been saved by somebody else like Brooks last year.[/quote]

This is flat out wrong. Having a bad playoff series because he's not intended to be a number one option shouldn't erase everything he did for this team. He's not only a game changer, he was a season changer for us. Few backups can provide that. DJ proved that he could.

[chrispatrick]

If Derrick had stayed healthy, you think Knight or Dragic wanted to ride the bench?

Dragic probably wouldn't stay here and repeat the PHX dual backcourt.

But generally speaking on adding a PG, not like we haven't been playing Brooks and Rose together already most of the year, and even closing games.

I was worried someone would point that out. Tried to qualify by mentioning that Dragic would be entering the same situation he left in Phoenix and that Knight actually cost a lot to acquire but I think we're on the same page.

[NecessaryEvil]

Draft night trade : Taj & the King's pick to Boston for Isaiah Thomas (or moved to a 3rd team)

G Rose / Thomas
G Butler / Snell
F Snell / McD
F Gasol / Mirotic
C Noah / 1st rounder

Over 5 guys a night that could put up 20 + any given game.

[unknownnewbie]

If Derrick had stayed healthy, you think Knight or Dragic wanted to ride the bench?

Dragic probably wouldn't stay here and repeat the PHX dual backcourt.

But generally speaking on adding a PG, not like we haven't been playing Brooks and Rose together already most of the year, and even closing games.

No offense to Aaron, but he was signed as the 3rd string PG. So he's probably going to be happy with any sort of playing time he gets. But someone like Dragic or Knight or MCW or another starting PG would likely not be eager to come here to play alongside Rose or to back him up. Also, with all the big contracts already on the team, I can't see Jerry being eager to trade for someone who would cost a lot of money.

In hindsight, maybe the Bulls should have tried to trade for another solid backup PG who might have been able to step in as a starter if Rose got injured. But would that player, who doesn't know the Bulls' system, had been any more effective then Brooks or Hinrich, both of whom are very familiar with the system? That's the $64,000 question.

[TheStig]

I agree with the possibility of Rose getting injured. But, c'mon, Augustin is no game changer.

Excuse me. He's no game changer??? Did you miss all of last season? HE was the reason we made the playoffs. That's the definition of a game changer.

He was good in the regular season but he was really bad in that Washington series.

9.5 per/29.2% fg/26.9% 3pt/41.1 ts%

[pylb]

Because we had 4 point guards on the roster already.

[unknownnewbie]

Excuse me. He's no game changer??? Did you miss all of last season? HE was the reason we made the playoffs. That's the definition of a game changer.

C'mon ....he was an average, decent smallish PG. Brooks is not greatly worse than him. Either way, you are not going anywhere with both of them especially with their defense. And, we saw how DJ was terrible against Washington. Last year was more due to Noah and Taj playing in a different gear.

Yeah, he contributed and did well to help the team in the regular season. But, logically, even Brooks could have done the same and failed the same way in the playoffs. There are obviously some differences in stats but I just disagree that the regular season could not have been saved by somebody else like Brooks last year.

This is flat out wrong. Having a bad playoff series because he's not intended to be a number one option shouldn't erase everything he did for this team. He's not only a game changer, he was a season changer for us. Few backups can provide that. DJ proved that he could.[/quote]


Nate Robinson pretty much did exactly what D.J. did. And unlike D.J., he had an excellent postseason for the Bulls.

But neither one of these guys is a legit starting PG, IMO. They are both much better served as backups providing a spark off the bench for 20 minutes per game. If they have to fill in as a starter for a few games at a time, that's fine. But a full-time starter? No.

The Bulls were 4-5 with D.J. as their starting PG last season
The Pistons were 4-9 with D.J. as their starting PG this year

Prior to joining the Bulls, Augustin's record as a starting NBA PG? 49-98

Now I know he was on some bad teams, but still, that's a horrible record as a starter.

[musiqsoulchild]

In this particular situation, I'd rather have DJ than Kirk or Brooks.

[Rerisen]

DJ froze Jimmy out of the offense a bit vs the Wiz, or rather, couldn't do much once they trapped his one trick PnR.

This year Jimmy is going to get his chance - I hope - if Brooks doesn't act like a bonehead.

[Mech Engineer]

DJ froze Jimmy out of the offense a bit vs the Wiz, or rather, couldn't do much once they trapped his one trick PnR.

This year Jimmy is going to get his chance - I hope - if Brooks doesn't act like a bonehead.

He was just overwhelmed, IMO. Brooks might be a bonehead but he can win you games in the playoffs if he is right. And, watch Brooks. ...he is trying to set people up a little more.

I think one reason he is struggling on 3s is because he is passing more and is taking only the real difficult shots.

I have no complaints about not resigning DJ. Hinrich in theory is right but is not working practically. I would take last year's Hinrich over all these midget PGs.

[DuckIII]

I'm sure they had a good feeling about Rose needing surgery.

Why are you sure about that?

[bullslas]

Gibson to the Bucks for Knight, would've been nice. He could've played SG or PG. Everyone was worried about Noah getting hurt so we didnt' trade Taj.

[TheJordanRule]

The biggest issue was not retaining Augustin. He could have been kept for a relatively cheap amount and would have done just fine as a starter. We always knew Rose getting injured again was a big possibility. Brooks has been very solid, but he's no DJ.

I agree with the possibility of Rose getting injured. But, c'mon, Augustin is no game changer. We saw it enough. Maybe for a few weeks/as a backup, he would be fine.

It is not like they never spent much money on a backup PG. Didn't they spend about 3.5 million or so on CJ Watson? They made that bet on Kirk and it has backfired this year. They obviously didn't expect Kirk to have such a big role...otherwise, they would have signed somebody who could have filled that starter kind of role.

The sad thing is the drop-off is so huge from Derrick regardless of stats, it was a bad decision. I don't know who they could have got for a backup but they definitely needed a more younger Kirk as the backup.

I agree that the FO never expected Kirk to start, but Mech, they expected Kirk to have a 6th or 7th man type of role, which has been a schizophrenic expectation of theirs for the past two seasons. Kirk has performed even more poorly this year than the last, but I don't understand why you think that could have never been anticipated. This is Kirk's 11th season, and he's 34 years old... way past a prime that never was all that impressive to begin with. Kirk was named all defensive 2nd teamer one time in 2007, and that's about it except for his even more basic all rookie first team award. Those were his best years, and they came 8 or more years ago. 28 year old DJ Augustin, on the other hand, was a game changer as a microwave scorer and facilitator. He was a huge factor in keeping us in the playoff hunt, posting a PER of 16.8 on the season (his best ever and an average PER of 18.6 in the second half of the year). Similarly, this season even in Detroit, in a new system and with a mediocre cast of teammates, DJ posted great numbers as a starter the minute Jennings got injured. That's why the drop off from DJ and scrubs like Kirk or Brooks couldn't be more obvious. You can't come close to thinking Kirk can provide good production as a starter, while Brooks is just a one trick pony who reveals how flawed the PER stat really is. With another year in our system, and Thibs' guidance, DJ's defensive skills could have even taken a considerable rise this season if we had kept him. Mech, I'll admit there was no younger Kirk on the market except Moore, who we picked up reluctantly but why is a younger poor man's Kirk the standard of all that is good in a backup? Isn't it obvious that the best move is to go with BPA (best player available) especially when doing so would address a position of need? We had a rich man's Aaron Brooks and we let him walk. It's salt in the wound now, given the circumstances, and probably best to forget since there's nothing we can do about it at this point. I just wish the board would quit bringing up DJ while preaching that Kirk was just as good a choice. It's kind of like being in a class where the teacher is trying to convince the students that 1 + 1 = 3 because he got into a car accident involving someone else, and is trying to say there's a third person responsible. Except there were only two cars involved, so this is his way of trying to "see" the third car.