PG: Welcome our new Captain

[Rerisen]

He's only been a volume scorer in 4 of those games. Again, Jimmy missed all of one and half of another. Last night everyone but Tony struggled to score. The Pelicans game was a blow out and he did much of his damage in garbage time. Other than one blow out game, you're not seeing his volume scoring compliment Derrick, Jimmy and Pau's games. He's been primarily filling holes. That's fine, but that's not where his real value lies. Unless of course teams decide to not guard him. Then by all means, I hope he launches a ton of shots and makes them pay.

His primary value is that he is a versatile offensive player and fairly decent defender too.

I don't know why we have to put him in a box and say "just stand out there and be guarded" as the only thing we need or more aptly, can use to improve.

You seem to look at the team so rigidly. Rose scores X, Pau scores X, therefore, the wing must score X.

If you think I'm applauding merely the points, no, that's not it, its the versatility to be able to achieve those points where the real value lies. What they represent in his potential ways to impact a game.

The desire isn't for another guy to come in and get 20 points every night, or even the 17 he's been averaging necessarily. Some nights it might be 11, some nights it might be 16, but over the long haul, good bet it will be more than Dunleavy or Kirk were putting up because he just can do more, which eases the burden on the main guys and makes their job easier. One less guy to create every single basket for. And only if its 2 or 3 points more on average, those might be leading to 2 or 3 more efficient points for the entire team at the end of the night.

[clancyphile]

The problem is that I think that this is the deepest team Thibs has ever had, and he hasn't quite figured out what to do with all that depth. What Thibs needs to do, quite frankly, is to tell Rose and Gasol to be more willing to pass early and to expand their definition of a "good game" to be one where they may only get 15 points, but rack up a bunch of assists - and not just a game where they get their 20-25 points per game.

In short, he needs to adjust his system to match his roster's depth for this year.

That doesn't work in reality. These guys need rhythm/confidence to make the difficult shots which inevitably they have to make in the final minutes of most games. Unless there is a defensive breakdown, there is very less chance that others will get a chance to make a shot in the final minutes. It is only if the main guys get double teamed. So, Derrick and Pau trying to pass doesn't happen because no coach will run plays for Kirk or Noah or anybody else consistently.

This is the age old debate. The top players who lead teams to championships are not elite passers but finishers first and then passers second. For all the glory LeBron gets as a passer, he drives to the basket and only thinks about passing if there is no option. That is one reason why Chris Paul keeps failing(IMO). He thinks about passing first and is looking at a defense on how to pass rather than how to finish at the basket/make a shot first.

Michael Jordan didn't get his NBA championships until Pippen developed, and Horace Grant emerged as second and third options, with others (Paxson, Hodges, Armstrong, Cartwright) also being capable of stepping up when needed. That rendered the "Jordan Rules" the Pistons had useless. It was Paxson who had one of those late game-winning shots in the playoffs (I forget against who).

You don't need to run plays for Kirk or Noah consistently - but maybe for Butler, Snell, Mirotic, McDermott...

[mj234eva]

It's all moot now.......

[Rerisen]

It's all moot now.......

Eh, Snell really needs to score 17 a game now.

I'd start him. Next year too, if they don't make a trade.

It's time to focus on potential and the future at this point.

Stop dragging these old vet corpses out. The old plan is dead.

[clancyphile]

The Bulls need the secondary skills of finishing, dribbling etc.. but not at an elite level compared to shooting which is what they would require from a player playing next to Jimmy/Derrick. If Derrick is Steph Curry and Jimmy was Klay Thompson, it made sense to get a dribbler/finisher rather than a 3 pt shooter.

And, a volume scorer requires rhythm, touches. Put Kevin Durant on the Bulls and ask him to be the 4th option on offense when Derrick/Jimmy/Pau are there....he will probably struggle. All his dribbling/finishing skills are useless because he is getting the ball only when Derrick is double-teamed or Jimmy is double-teamed. He is not getting the ball with 20 seconds and being asked to create. He has to become a great 3 pt shooter first and then use his other skills.

Does Snell do things like finishing, dribbling one-on-one better than MDJ, Kirk. Definitely and it helps that he is a low cost option plus somebody who has been on the team for 2 years now who has practised with Derrick/Jimmy a lot. Put a new guy who has never played with Jimmy/Derrick and he will be looking like a lost puppy.

If by any chance, Snell keeps his other skills and loses his 3 pt shooting...he becomes a bad fit.

Volume and one on one is different just so people know. Tony's volume is coming from the 3 point line. He has shot 6 threes in 5 of the 7 games they've played in Feb. No one is saying Snell is not a floor spacer. He is a floor spacer but him doing it in volume makes it that much better.

If Tony continues to get 25+ minutes. This is how it's going to go. If his volume is down, it's means his guy is sticking him and giving lanes to Pau, Jimmy and Rose lanes to score. If the volume is up, he is making teams pay for not being on him as much. That's what Tony is bringing right now.

Exactly.

It's also what Mirotic, or Dunleavy, or Brooks, or Gibson bring to the table. Even Noah and Hinrich bring it to a lesser extent.

This is the deepest team the Bulls have had in my memory. The Bulls of the 90s would have been in a world of hurt if Jordan or Pippen were out. This year, when Butler and Dunleavy have been out, Snell's stepped up. Rose misses a game? Brooks and Hinrich have stepped in there to fill in. Noah misses time? Mirotic or Gibson fills in.

[Professor Frink]

He's only been a volume scorer in 4 of those games. Again, Jimmy missed all of one and half of another. Last night everyone but Tony struggled to score. The Pelicans game was a blow out and he did much of his damage in garbage time. Other than one blow out game, you're not seeing his volume scoring compliment Derrick, Jimmy and Pau's games. He's been primarily filling holes. That's fine, but that's not where his real value lies. Unless of course teams decide to not guard him. Then by all means, I hope he launches a ton of shots and makes them pay.

His primary value is that he is a versatile offensive player and fairly decent defender too.

I don't know why we have to put him in a box and say "just stand out there and be guarded" as the only thing we need or more aptly, can use to improve.

You seem to look at the team so rigidly. Rose scores X, Pau scores X, therefore, the wing must score X.

If you think I'm applauding merely the points, no, that's not it, its the versatility to be able to achieve those points where the real value lies. What they represent in his potential ways to impact a game.

The desire isn't for another guy to come in and get 20 points every night, or even the 17 he's been averaging necessarily. Some nights it might be 11, some nights it might be 16, but over the long haul, good bet it will be more than Dunleavy or Kirk were putting up because he just can do more, which eases the burden on the main guys and makes their job easier. One less guy to create every single basket for. And only if its 2 or 3 points more on average, those might be leading to 2 or 3 more efficient points for the entire team at the end of the night.

We don't have to put him in a box. This isn't about him. It's a criticism of your posts and your diagnoses of what was wrong with the team. Of course, things have suddenly changed, so volume scoring is now an issue. It wasn't before.

[Rerisen]

^Judging from the overwhelming positive OP response, most posters agree that another capable volume scorer was helping the team. In fact, you were the first to disagree after 14 pages. Can't please everyone.

[pb-ceo]

It's all moot now.......

Eh, Snell really needs to score 17 a game now.

I'd start him. Next year too, if they don't make a trade.

It's time to focus on potential and the future at this point.

Stop dragging these old vet corpses out. The old plan is dead.

it's a bit premature to be writing off this team. by all accounts the new injury is minor and he should return for playoffs. the bulls fo will stick with the plan if that's the case. even so, there isn't much this team can do with $20m tied up for two more years and a max deal for jimmy in the cards. this team over achieves given who they are paying max money too and now much of a contribution he has made since he signed it.

[Fastbrk4brkfast]

Snell is a better SF than Mirotic. Taj just has to go...

I disagree that Snell is better at SF than Snell but that's not really important. If the object is to get tour best playersnon the floor for as long as possible then Niko should back Snell at SF, keep Taj and MDJ's the odd man out. Like I said I don't think Snell's better than Niko. But this arrangement that loses MDJ makes more sense than losing Taj.

It actually is important. That was the best Niko has looked in long time and it was because he played his natural position. His rebounding ability is nerfed at the 3 and it is harder for him to take SFs off the dribble. Defensively Snell has Mirotic beat easily when it comes to guarding wings. Are you factoring that in? Would you let Niko guard Lebron?

Everything you mention is true but it's not like he hasn't had any good games at SF and those are the compromises you have to make to get your best players on the floor as much as possible. The fact is that is where the most minutes are available. And yes, I would like to see how Niko does guarding Lebron.