OT: Russell Westbrook , the level he is playing at right now

[dice]

Yea, gotta say he's officially surpassed Rose's MVP level. This is borderline Peak '87-89 MJ level basketball he's currently playing, insane.

Westbrook is a league-average shooter. You can't be MJ being a league-average shooter. But otherwise, yes. His energy and all-around game are fabulous.

don't forget the lack of defense (recently, at least)

westbrook has been in total stat-stuffing mode. dj augustine has had a better +/- coming off the bench during this streak

[Ice Man]

don't forget the lack of defense (recently, at least)

Yes, I should have mentioned that. I'm not going to knock Westbrook, would merely point out that if MJ is the comparison (as opposed to say Magic or Bird), then excellence must come on both sides of the ball.

[CousinOfDeath]

He's on a tear and he's incredible and might be better than MVP Rose

That being said, it was against the Sixers, and he still takes a lot of dumb shots. If he continues to play at this level in the playoffs when **** gets real then I'll be ready to crown him.

[Mech Engineer]

If OKC can't make the Finals this year, let alone win it, with 2 of the top 5 players in the game, it really makes you wonder if they are on the right build plan.

Either of their superstars could net half a team of talent in trade to perfectly buttress the talent of the remaining guy.

Don't know how you've come to this conclusion given their injuries they've had to face all season. Getting to the playoffs is an achievement in itself this season.

I expect them to make the playoffs and for Durant to be back.

Yes, their first round might be the hardest round they'd face. But I'm talking more when that team is healthy, if its really been winning like it should.

What you have to consider with Westbrook, as I discussed earlier, his best strength is really not how great he is in any given moment, his efficiency is not very good and he still doesn't make the smartest decisions in critical moments.

His best strength is his stamina and ability to do so many things at a high level. Without Durant he has something like a 35 PER this year. But when Durant does come back, Westbrook's value reduces because KD replaces a lot of the workload he is doing but Westbrook's remaining contribution does not quite fill in the missing blanks next to Durant in a 'sum is greater than its parts' type way. At least imo.

There is a little bit of truth to what you wrote but we also know it just takes time for players to understand how to win in the playoffs whether it is executing the right play/preparing the right way or understanding their weaknesses/strengths. The only problem is they have to remain healthy to figure out those things for a period of time which Westbrook, Durant or Rose haven't been.

That's why I think LeBron won eventually, MJ won eventually, Shaq won eventually.

Westbrook will figure out, IMO how to fill in the blanks or Durant will figure out how to fill in the blanks for Westbrook sooner than later. But, they have been derailed for a few years now with health issues. Tony Allen takes out Durant during many playoff games. That shouldn't happen if these two knew how to function well together. Maybe it is the coaching or their understanding of the game.

They have a good roster now but still not sure if they have the right big man to complement them. They have all kinds of big guys in OKC but not sure if they are good for deep playoff runs.

[Keller61]

Westbrook has a motor that's on another level, I'll give him that. He's looks even more athletic now. Props to him for the numbers he's putting up. His season USG% is 38.1%, for comparison sake, Jordan's two highest were 38.6% and 38.3%, in 85-86 (played just 18 games), and 86-87 respectively. I've always felt like USG% was under-calculated. His true usage is probably 60+%.

If you add in assist opportunities and FT assists, his usage comes out to about 58%.

[whodey]

I mean they haven't won **** though. Like this is my thing with Westbrook. Him being your best player for 82 games, that team doesn't win 60 or come close to it.

It's not a fair comparison. If Westbrook had the same supporting cast Rose had in 2010-11 AND Thibs coaching, no doubt in my mind that team wins 60 games.

Supporting cast? He's played with the MVP of the league all his career except this one

I was talking about this year. Guess what, he has played in the Finals, Rose hasn't. And, when Durant is a teammate, that means the usage rate is completely not fair to compare.

So yes, if I took Westbrook and his game this year with the 2010-11 Bulls supporting cast, they absolutely win 60 games.

[mj234eva]

Westbrook has a motor that's on another level, I'll give him that. He's looks even more athletic now. Props to him for the numbers he's putting up. His season USG% is 38.1%, for comparison sake, Jordan's two highest were 38.6% and 38.3%, in 85-86 (played just 18 games), and 86-87 respectively. I've always felt like USG% was under-calculated. His true usage is probably 60+%.

If you add in assist opportunities and FT assists, his usage comes out to about 58%.

Thanks Keller.

[Ctownbulls]

I always thought Westbrook was about as good as Rose, and right now he's better than Rose ever was. He won't maintain this ridiculous production, but he's added a lot of nuance to his game that I'm not sure Rose ever will be able to.

Rose was better than Westbrook 4 years ago. They were both in their early 20s. 4 years has passed and Russell has been able to develop over that time. Rose hasn't.

Westbrook is miles ahead of Rose and is currently better than what Rose was during his MVP season. I don't think it is even that close.

Sad to imagine where Rose would have been if he didn't lose 3 years.

[Madhouse]

He's on a tear and he's incredible and might be better than MVP Rose

That being said, it was against the Sixers, and he still takes a lot of dumb shots. If he continues to play at this level in the playoffs when **** gets real then I'll be ready to crown him.

He is a lot better than MVP Rose. He is mentioned alongside LBJ and Durant.

He is GOATbrook.

[Dengness9]

He's on a tear and he's incredible and might be better than MVP Rose

That being said, it was against the Sixers, and he still takes a lot of dumb shots. If he continues to play at this level in the playoffs when **** gets real then I'll be ready to crown him.

I would point out to you that he put up another 40 pt trib dub against the Blazers the game before.

He has victimized other playoff/playoff level teams and good defensive teams in Feb.

Really can't play the "it was against "X" team though". He's so good right now it doesn't matter what name is on the other jersey.

[kingkirk]

I expect them to make the playoffs and for Durant to be back.

Yes, their first round might be the hardest round they'd face. But I'm talking more when that team is healthy, if its really been winning like it should.

If you're only referencing this season, then yes, they haven't been playing well, or at least at expected levels when they've had both Durant and Westbrook healthy.

But, I think there are valid excuses for that, no?

They've been involved in 2 mid season trades. They've had their stars in and out of the line up. Continuity has been a difficult thing to achieve.

Despite that, they've still won more than 60% of their games when healthy. That's pretty good. Not the expected 70%+ we've become used to with the Thunder based on their previous seasons, but still not bad.

If you're referring to their model in general, and not just this season, then I completely disagree.

I think this team is primed for championship runs, even without Harden. They lost Westbrook in 2013 & Ibaka was hurt in 2014.

They just need to be healthy in the post season. The last time they were, they made the Finals.

This team scares me more than the Cavs based simply on the amount of talent they have, and the ages of those players, as I noted previously.

[JordansBulls]

He is almost as good as Rose was back in 2011, but still not quite as good despite him having a far superior team than Rose had who had no other allstar on the squad.

[Leslie Forman]

Rose was better than Westbrook 4 years ago. They were both in their early 20s. 4 years has passed and Russell has been able to develop over that time. Rose hasn't.

Westbrook isn't showing some amazing skillset that nobody saw from him before. It is simply a matter of usage. If he had been the lead guy like Rose back then I think he would have done something pretty close to what he's doing now.

He is almost as good as Rose was back in 2011, but still not quite as good despite him having a far superior team than Rose had who had no other allstar on the squad.

His best teammate right now is Serge Ibaka, who isn't any better than Taj Gibson. After that it's a bunch of nobodies. And Scott Brooks coaching.

Without Westbrook that team's basically a Philly or New York.

[NotaBallboy]

LOL at bulls fan that think MVP rose is better than current Westbrook. 2011 Westbrook was better than MVP rose along with 5-6 other players. Current Westbrook is so far head of Rose that had to get a meniscectomy to avoid todays match up.

[dice]

LOL at bulls fan that think MVP rose is better than current Westbrook. 2011 Westbrook was better than MVP rose along with 5-6 other players

so...westbrook, playing with durant, harden and ibaka managed how many wins in 2011?

[lilojmayo]

Rose was better than Westbrook 4 years ago. They were both in their early 20s. 4 years has passed and Russell has been able to develop over that time. Rose hasn't.

Westbrook isn't showing some amazing skillset that nobody saw from him before. It is simply a matter of usage. If he had been the lead guy like Rose back then I think he would have done something pretty close to what he's doing now.

He is almost as good as Rose was back in 2011, but still not quite as good despite him having a far superior team than Rose had who had no other allstar on the squad.

His best teammate right now is Serge Ibaka, who isn't any better than Taj Gibson. After that it's a bunch of nobodies. And Scott Brooks coaching.

Without Westbrook that team's basically a Philly or New York.

yeah but to have insane usage. You have to prove day in and out at practtice. That you are by far the best player on the team for them to give you the keys like they have Westbrooko

43 points tonight. right now he has 4 straight 40 point games. so now that his triple double streak is over, he is chasing Kobe's record