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Exact Same Roster Next Year

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Re: Exact Same Roster Next Year 

Post#81 » by frosty23 » Wed Apr 1, 2015 7:15 pm

kodo wrote:
frosty23 wrote:I'm not sure why everyone thinks Brooks will get a lot. I thought Augustin was much better last year, and those Bulls still could have kept him around should they have given him what Kirky poo got.


Augustin was not one of the best 3 point shooters in the league.
He shot 32% which is below average.

Brook is shooting 39.6% which makes him a top 20 3 point shooter in accuracy.

Brooks
18.6 points per 36 min
5.1 assist per 36 min
39.6% from 3P

Lou Williams
21.9 points per 36 min
2.9 assists per 36 min
33.1% from 3P

Their roles are identical, short PG off the bench who guns. Lou scores more, with less efficiency.
Brooks has higher efficiency and dishes more assists.

Lou gets $5.45 million per year.
Brooks currently gets league minimum.

I don't think Brooks is going to get a lot, but he will get MMLE money ($2M-$3M) at a minimum, if not MLE.


I would argue that Brooks is part of the system that has made other similar scoring point guards have career years. Lou Will is also 2 years younger and has longer arms than Brooks.

I believe also more a true pg is more difficult to find and coveted than a scoring one. Look at the GM survey, I believe it ranked Augustin the 29th best pg, while Brooks was no where to be seen. People forget how good DJ was for the Bulls last year. I thought he would get much more than he did.
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Re: Exact Same Roster Next Year 

Post#82 » by sco » Wed Apr 1, 2015 7:21 pm

Brooks is definitely one of the better back-up PG's in the league, but probably one of the lower quartile starting PG's. Our problem is that we need the "Taj" of back-up PG's with Rose still on the roster...someone who is willing to come off the bench, but would rank in the top 50% of starting PG's as well.
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Re: Exact Same Roster Next Year 

Post#83 » by frosty23 » Wed Apr 1, 2015 7:25 pm

sco wrote:Brooks is definitely one of the better back-up PG's in the league, but probably one of the lower quartile starting PG's. Our problem is that we need the "Taj" of back-up PG's with Rose still on the roster...someone who is willing to come off the bench, but would rank in the top 50% of starting PG's as well.


Top 50% of starting point guards means some one almost as good as Rose lol. DJ was perfect, and we let him get away.
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Re: Exact Same Roster Next Year 

Post#84 » by clancyphile » Wed Apr 1, 2015 9:37 pm

sco wrote:Brooks is definitely one of the better back-up PG's in the league, but probably one of the lower quartile starting PG's. Our problem is that we need the "Taj" of back-up PG's with Rose still on the roster...someone who is willing to come off the bench, but would rank in the top 50% of starting PG's as well.


You can't get the Taj of PGs via free agency. Most you'd get is another one-year rental. Nice, but the Taj of PGs would be better. The best bet for that is via the draft.

That said, I think the Bulls could get one or two such players over the next two years:
BYU SG Tyler Haws, who is 6'5", 195 pounds http://byucougars.com/athlete/m-basketball/tyler-haws
BYU G Kyle Collinsworth, who is 6'6", 210 pounds. http://byucougars.com/athlete/m-basketb ... llinsworth

Haws, who is available in the 2015 draft, is a point-scoring machine. He could be the backup PG the Bulls need, especially as a scorer. Plus, with a multi-year deal, the Bulls can really integrate him into the offense. He could replace MDJ on the roster as Snell takes the starting SF position. McDermott then could take over the role Snell's taking. Haws has a career 37.9% from downtown, and

Collinsworth becomes available in the 2016 draft. This guy has tied the NCAA Record for triple doubles - six - and did it in one season. Oh, that the guy whose record he tied? Someone named Shaquille O'Neal. Collinsworth may declare this year. If that is the case... maybe the Bulls ought to get him as a PG/SG/SF option.
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Re: Exact Same Roster Next Year 

Post#85 » by vxmike » Wed Apr 1, 2015 10:09 pm

Mr Funk wrote:
MC3 wrote:We arent athletic team.


We're a very athletic team. We only have six players on the roster (and two who rarely, if ever play) who lack athleticism: Gasol, Dunleavy, Hinrich, McDermott (and Nazr and Bairstow).

Rose, Jimmy, Taj, Niko, Noah, Snell, Moore and Brooks all have varying degrees of athleticism.


Even if your list is correct, Gasol, MDJ and Hinrich play quite a few of the teams minutes though. They're 1st, 5th and 6th in total minutes played this season.

It's the relative lack of athleticism combined with guys being physically weak. This exacerbates the problems with rebounding and finishing in traffic that so-called "athletic" teams are more adept at.

I think Moore and Noah are both unathletic for their positions. Moore isn't slow but doesn't really offer any explosiveness you typically want from a wing or guard. Noah is quick footed but can't jump and is pretty awkward with his movements....and gets pushed around by strong centers. Niko and Brooks are both either weak or undersized and get pushed around by stronger guys. Don't get me wrong Niko is awesome, but he needs the weight room urgently. Snell is athletic but we've seen quite a few of his high flying dunks get sent right back at him due to lack of strength.

The Bulls are absolutely the WORST team I've ever seen at finishing fast breaks. They typically blow 2 on 1 and 3 on 1 breaks all the time, and this is directly a result of guys who aren't athletic finishers.

Rose, Jimmy, and Taj are the only three guys I would consider above average in the strength/athleticism department and two of them aren't even in the top 7 for total minutes played this season.
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Re: Exact Same Roster Next Year 

Post#86 » by dougthonus » Wed Apr 1, 2015 10:33 pm

It's not crazy to think the Bulls could be back with more or less the same team if you only count guys who regularly play (and McDermott).

MDJ and Brooks seem the most likely to leave with some chance the Bulls also move on from one of their bigs. However, I'm not sure Brooks has played so well that he's going to get a better gig somewhere else, so he may come back for the min again given there's no one really to compete for back up PG minutes next year either.

MDJ will likely leave and simply be replaced by McDermott/Snell most likely. The Bulls will use their draft pick to add depth somewhere (a big would be nice). However, if no one offers MDJ more than the min, then he could also easily stay or possibly get a 2 year 2 million type deal here.

The Bulls don't really have a hole to attempt to fill with the MLE, so they could split their MLE into 2 year deals for both Brooks and MDJ to give them competitive deals and keep continuity and not hurt the team financially. It's a long shot, but it's not out of the question given how much depth they have everywhere else.

The only question is if they're looking to do something radical after the playoffs if things go really badly, but seems unlikely.

Nazr's probably the only guy whom I'd say is virtually 100% gone. Bairstow is pretty close, but since he makes less than the vet min he has some shot to stay just from a financial basis if they think he practices well and has any upside.
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Re: Exact Same Roster Next Year 

Post#87 » by vxmike » Wed Apr 1, 2015 10:49 pm

dougthonus wrote:It's not crazy to think the Bulls could be back with more or less the same team if you only count guys who regularly play (and McDermott).

MDJ and Brooks seem the most likely to leave with some chance the Bulls also move on from one of their bigs. However, I'm not sure Brooks has played so well that he's going to get a better gig somewhere else, so he may come back for the min again given there's no one really to compete for back up PG minutes next year either.

MDJ will likely leave and simply be replaced by McDermott/Snell most likely. The Bulls will use their draft pick to add depth somewhere (a big would be nice). However, if no one offers MDJ more than the min, then he could also easily stay or possibly get a 2 year 2 million type deal here.

The Bulls don't really have a hole to attempt to fill with the MLE, so they could split their MLE into 2 year deals for both Brooks and MDJ to give them competitive deals and keep continuity and not hurt the team financially. It's a long shot, but it's not out of the question given how much depth they have everywhere else.

The only question is if they're looking to do something radical after the playoffs if things go really badly, but seems unlikely.

Nazr's probably the only guy whom I'd say is virtually 100% gone. Bairstow is pretty close, but since he makes less than the vet min he has some shot to stay just from a financial basis if they think he practices well and has any upside.


The Bulls have a hole at SF and need a 3rd combo guard who can backup Jimmy and Rose or play starter PG minutes when Rose gets hurt. Snell might be starter material (maybe...) but McDermott has shown nothing even suggestive of the role thus far. I'd rather have a Wilson Chandler at SF backed up by Doug/MDJ with Snell backing up Jimmy.

They can go over the cap to resign MDJ if necessary. Using the MLE on him is totally unnecessary and using it on Brooks silly IMO. Guys like Brooks are always out there for vet min. If they're going to spend the MLE they need an actual floor general.

I think they need to spend the entire MLE if available (they'll be very close to apron depending how everything shakes out) on an impact player. Splitting it for two guys who are marginally better than whoever is available for the vet min is a bad move. For capped out teams like the Bulls who want to contend it's the only way to net an impact player unless you have expendable trade pieces on movable contracts which they do not.

I would argue that trading Noah or Taj for wing/guard depth and replacing either one with an MLE 4th big would be more effective than paying all four current bigs real money and playing the same vet min guys at backup SG and PG.
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Re: Exact Same Roster Next Year 

Post#88 » by unknownnewbie » Wed Apr 1, 2015 10:56 pm

HomoSapien wrote:
Red Larrivee wrote:
Gar Paxdorf wrote:I'm unclear. Does Kirk have a no trade clause, a trade kicker, both, or neither?


He had the right to veto any trade involving him since he signed a one year contract (with an option) that will give him bird rights at season's end.

That ends once he opts in though


Is he expected to opt out?


lol, nope
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Re: Exact Same Roster Next Year 

Post#89 » by dougthonus » Wed Apr 1, 2015 11:50 pm

vxmike wrote:The Bulls have a hole at SF and need a 3rd combo guard who can backup Jimmy and Rose or play starter PG minutes when Rose gets hurt. Snell might be starter material (maybe...) but McDermott has shown nothing even suggestive of the role thus far. I'd rather have a Wilson Chandler at SF backed up by Doug/MDJ with Snell backing up Jimmy.


Wilson Chandler's isn't available as a FA. He might be available in trade, but I wouldn't go way out of my way to grab him given that he's a dicey fit since he's not a shooter and is a FA at the end of the season.

I wouldn't mind getting an upgrade to McDermott either, but if the Bulls have seen enough in him, I'd also be willing to have faith based on their past success that they can get good value out of him on the floor too.

I guess in the end it depends who is available, and how they fit into the long term and short term vision of the team, and how confident the team is in building for the short term vs long term as well.

They can go over the cap to resign MDJ if necessary. Using the MLE on him is totally unnecessary and using it on Brooks silly IMO. Guys like Brooks are always out there for vet min. If they're going to spend the MLE they need an actual floor general.


That's true, I had thought they couldn't go over on MDJ because they didn't have bird rights, but they have early bird rights, and his next contract won't exceed what they can pay him based on those. I'm not tied to Brooks, but I'd potentially be willing to give him two years four million total vs just replacing him with the next random guard and hope to get lucky again.

That said, I wouldn't go nuts about doing that if I felt I could get someone great for the MLE.

I think they need to spend the entire MLE if available (they'll be very close to apron depending how everything shakes out) on an impact player. Splitting it for two guys who are marginally better than whoever is available for the vet min is a bad move. For capped out teams like the Bulls who want to contend it's the only way to net an impact player unless you have expendable trade pieces on movable contracts which they do not.


Almost every player who signs a full MLE deal ends up being a bad contract. You almost never get impact players for the MLE. On the other hand, teams who split it very frequently get very good deals. You're typically getting two guys of perceived slightly lower caliber on better deals, and frequently one of them turns out better than the full MLE guy you could have had.

Granted, this year, the MLE is a better risk because of the contracts expanding the following year. I'm not opposed to using the full MLE, however, I think you're mistaken in the concept that overall this is the best way to go. You rarely get an impact player for the MLE. If you could, then go for it, of course.

I would argue that trading Noah or Taj for wing/guard depth and replacing either one with an MLE 4th big would be more effective than paying all four current bigs real money and playing the same vet min guys at backup SG and PG.


Not necessarily a bad idea, but it depends what you get. I don't know of anyone whom you're likely grabbing for Taj/Noah that helps you as much as Taj/Noah, but it does depend on the trade.

Mirotic's ability to play the three as displayed recently might solve a bunch of the problems you outline though. I'm not convinced that's the right thing to do, but it might be something you do as a stop gap.
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Re: Exact Same Roster Next Year 

Post#90 » by League Circles » Thu Apr 2, 2015 3:06 am

I just looked at the list of UFA backup PGs and it's just terrible. Nobody that would really fit our needs IMO for the MMLE.

I wonder if there are any European free agent PGs available that would be worth it and availabile. I know nothing so I'll just throw out the names Sergio rodriguez or Rudy Fernandez?
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Re: Exact Same Roster Next Year 

Post#91 » by LOCKOUT » Thu Apr 2, 2015 5:44 am

GarPax has to make a move to get better off the bench.
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Re: Exact Same Roster Next Year 

Post#92 » by TimRobbins » Thu Apr 2, 2015 6:24 am

dougthonus wrote:It's not crazy to think the Bulls could be back with more or less the same team if you only count guys who regularly play (and McDermott).

MDJ and Brooks seem the most likely to leave with some chance the Bulls also move on from one of their bigs. However, I'm not sure Brooks has played so well that he's going to get a better gig somewhere else, so he may come back for the min again given there's no one really to compete for back up PG minutes next year either.

MDJ will likely leave and simply be replaced by McDermott/Snell most likely. The Bulls will use their draft pick to add depth somewhere (a big would be nice). However, if no one offers MDJ more than the min, then he could also easily stay or possibly get a 2 year 2 million type deal here.

The Bulls don't really have a hole to attempt to fill with the MLE, so they could split their MLE into 2 year deals for both Brooks and MDJ to give them competitive deals and keep continuity and not hurt the team financially. It's a long shot, but it's not out of the question given how much depth they have everywhere else.

The only question is if they're looking to do something radical after the playoffs if things go really badly, but seems unlikely.

Nazr's probably the only guy whom I'd say is virtually 100% gone. Bairstow is pretty close, but since he makes less than the vet min he has some shot to stay just from a financial basis if they think he practices well and has any upside.


The situation you're describing puts the Bulls in luxury tax territory. That will happen only if we get to the ECF or more IMO. The likely situation is that MDJ does not come back and Taj is salary dumped. If that happens, we may use the MLE (or part of it) on Brooks (or Mo Williams or similar) and on a 4th big to replace Taj.
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Re: Exact Same Roster Next Year 

Post#93 » by TimRobbins » Thu Apr 2, 2015 6:31 am

Gar Paxdorf wrote:I just looked at the list of UFA backup PGs and it's just terrible. Nobody that would really fit our needs IMO for the MMLE.

I wonder if there are any European free agent PGs available that would be worth it and availabile. I know nothing so I'll just throw out the names Sergio rodriguez or Rudy Fernandez?


Rudy is no PG and Sergio will be too expensive for the Bulls.

You have Mo Williams who is pretty good, Jeremy Lin who is passable and you can always keep Brooks. You can always trade Taj for a guy lie Jarret Jack or Calderon if needed.

There are good options available.
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Re: Exact Same Roster Next Year 

Post#94 » by Rerisen » Thu Apr 2, 2015 7:06 am

dougthonus wrote:Mirotic's ability to play the three as displayed recently might solve a bunch of the problems you outline though. I'm not convinced that's the right thing to do, but it might be something you do as a stop gap.


It's a band-aid for this year's team but not ideal long term. He's clearly more effective at PF, but as long as the other 3 bigs are here, we aren't maximizing his talent by playing him at the 3 for half or more of his minutes.

It only makes sense this year because the other wing options are often garbage. But if we can find a competent one, even in trade of a big, then move Mirotic to 30 minutes at PF, you can potentially upgrade both positions and significantly boost the overall talent on the floor during games.

The only danger with losing say Taj, is of course our bigs get a hurt a lot. But you'd rather split the MLE there, for an injury insurance position, the 4th big, than for a low value every night playing wing, a position we'll need more if Doug is still undependable.

Just having faith that Doug will be as good, or better, than a departing Dunleavy, seems incredibly reckless for a team that expects to be a contender. Because if he's not we would be in huge trouble. Worse than this year. As a 35 year old Hinrich is not going to be the answer to step in at the 2 to shore up the wing depth. He isn't even a good answer this year.
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Re: Exact Same Roster Next Year 

Post#95 » by Mech Engineer » Thu Apr 2, 2015 1:56 pm

One thing about the Bulls is all these predictions will not happen. I am sure anyone predicted that the Bulls will add two big men during the last off-season. And, the reason is obvious. People look at things from a very simple perspective whether it is basketball or financial. No wonder most of these guesses end up being wrong.

Pick and Roll defense from your big man is a very big deal when most of the league runs it. You have to factor in such things when making predictions and not based on height/position of a player.
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Re: Exact Same Roster Next Year 

Post#96 » by BullsFTW » Sun Apr 5, 2015 2:56 pm

BullsFTW wrote:F Dunleavy/McDermott
F Gasol/Mirotic
C Noah/2015 Pick (Poeltl)
G Butler/Snell/Moore
G Rose/Williams/Hinrich

If not Dunleavy, I think Jared Dudley is a good get at SF for a reasonable price.

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