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Which Bulls players have "exceeded" expectations so far?

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Re: Which Bulls players have "exceeded" expectations so far? 

Post#41 » by League Circles » Thu Dec 7, 2017 8:34 pm

rowseyna wrote:
Again, looking at P36 and/or P100 is the wrong way of going about it. He's 6th in PPG and 5th in total PTS.

Nene is 3rd on the Rockets in PP36 and PP100. He's also 7th in PPG, 8th in total PTS, and sucks.
Mirza Teletovic is 4th on the Bucks in PP36 and PP100. He's also 7th in PPG, 9th in total PTS, and sucks.

There are a million players like that. Looking at PP36 and/or PP100 to determine who is good at scoring (and who scores a lot) is idiotic. Again, there are reasons why some players play more than others.

Are you honestly suggesting that raw ppg is a more accurate indication of one's ability to score in volume than a stat that adjusts for how much the player gets to play?

It's not like we're talking about a low minute player. 6th in ppg on the leagues' worst offense isn't exactly a ringing endorsement.
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Re: Which Bulls players have "exceeded" expectations so far? 

Post#42 » by DanTown8587 » Thu Dec 7, 2017 8:38 pm

rowseyna wrote:
League Circles wrote:
rowseyna wrote:OK, you don't know the definition of incremental, but whatever... I'll look past it.

in·cre·men·tal
ˈˌiNGkrəˈˌmen(t)l,ˈˌinkrəˈˌmen(t)l/
adjective
relating to or denoting an increase or addition, especially one of a series on a fixed scale.
"incremental changes to the current system"
synonyms: gradual, progressive, steady, step-by-step; More
MATHEMATICS
denoting a small positive or negative change in a variable quantity or function.

Valentine is ranked 321st out of 457 players that have played in the league this year in TS%. That puts him ahead of players like Terry Rozier, Lance Stephenson, Russell Westbrook, Wilson Chandler, Lance Thomas, Dion Waiters, Corey Brewer, Marquese Chriss, Mo Harkless, Jusuf Nurkic, Caris LeVert, Dejounte Murray, Mike James, Semi Ojeleye, Jarell Martin, Justise Winslow, Mario Chalmers, Jarrett Jack, Stanley Johnson, Dennis Smith, Thon Maker, Tyler Ulis, Patrick Patterson, Evan Turner, De'Aaron Fox, Malik Monk, Josh Jackson, Ian Clark, Shabazz Muhammad, Marcus Smart, Arron Afflalo, DeAndre Liggins, Dwayne Bacon, Sam Dekker, Frank Ntilikina, and Lonzo Ball.

Oh what relevance is this list of mostly crap players you've listed? Might as well call the whole league good if you think most of these no-names have any relevance in the league.
Where are you getting 9th on the team from? He's 6th in FGAPG, 3rd in 3PAPG, 4th in total FGA, and 3rd in total 3PA. I guess maybe you're looking at FGAP36 of FGAP100? If so, that's an incorrect definition of volume. There are reasons why some players play more than others.

Volume scoring is what I was looking at, not shooting. Scoring is good, shooting isn't. Valentine is 9th on this horrific offense in points per 100 possessions and points per 36 minutes.

Thanks for doing my homework to show that there are 100 (OK 99) players in TS% between Denzel and an average player. SMH


Again, looking at P36 and/or P100 is the wrong way of going about it. He's 6th in PPG and 5th in total PTS.

Nene is 3rd on the Rockets in PP36 and PP100. He's also 7th in PPG, 8th in total PTS, and sucks.
Mirza Teletovic is 4th on the Bucks in PP36 and PP100. He's also 7th in PPG, 9th in total PTS, and sucks.

There are a million players like that. Looking at PP36 and/or PP100 to determine who is good at scoring (and who scores a lot) is idiotic. Again, there are reasons why some players play more than others.


Nene sucks? He has a PER of 20 and plays 15 minutes a night.

I bet you'd be hard pressed to find a good basketball player who is

- 4th in total minutes on the team
- 4th in average minutes played
- Has a combo of being 9th in points / 100, 5th in assists / 100, 7th in rebounds / 100, 6th in steals per 100, 11th in blocks, 8th in PER
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Re: Which Bulls players have "exceeded" expectations so far? 

Post#43 » by waffle » Fri Dec 8, 2017 12:07 am

Lauri - Despite the current funk
Dunn - Expectations were basement low. He's been first floor good
ROLO - He's better than given credit
Nwaba - You could certainly argue that he should start
Pondexter - lowest possible threshold. He's been nearly not terrible

Realistically I think that is it?
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Re: Which Bulls players have "exceeded" expectations so far? 

Post#44 » by Lauri_Bird » Fri Dec 8, 2017 5:50 am

Dunn is better than I thought he would be.

Valentine became a very good spot up 3 point shooter.

Nwaba is my favorite Bull this season...hes a keeper!

Lauri played some games well but came back to earth. He is what I thought he would be...Solid starter and thats it. I dont think he will ever be a star.
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Re: Which Bulls players have "exceeded" expectations so far? 

Post#45 » by ArizonaBullsFan » Fri Dec 8, 2017 6:38 am

League Circles wrote:
Warren G wrote:Most 3pt specialists aren't going to be stacking FTA because their game relies on being behind the line, rather than drawing contact at the rim.

glad I could be of assistance to you understanding why his FTA are so low.

Understood. Most "three point specialists" that, like him, aren't a threat to do anything else, aren't good players, unless they are really good defenders, which he most certainly is not.


Kyle Korver wants to know why you're dissin' him?
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Re: Which Bulls players have "exceeded" expectations so far? 

Post#46 » by League Circles » Fri Dec 8, 2017 1:40 pm

ArizonaBullsFan wrote:
League Circles wrote:
Warren G wrote:Most 3pt specialists aren't going to be stacking FTA because their game relies on being behind the line, rather than drawing contact at the rim.

glad I could be of assistance to you understanding why his FTA are so low.

Understood. Most "three point specialists" that, like him, aren't a threat to do anything else, aren't good players, unless they are really good defenders, which he most certainly is not.


Kyle Korver wants to know why you're dissin' him?

haha I've never thought Kyle Korver was a good player. I was probably the only Bulls fan glad we got rid of him. Other than Thibbs.

And before anyone says he became an all-star, so did Jamal Magloire.
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Re: Which Bulls players have "exceeded" expectations so far? 

Post#47 » by ArizonaBullsFan » Fri Dec 8, 2017 1:48 pm

League Circles wrote:
ArizonaBullsFan wrote:
League Circles wrote:Understood. Most "three point specialists" that, like him, aren't a threat to do anything else, aren't good players, unless they are really good defenders, which he most certainly is not.


Kyle Korver wants to know why you're dissin' him?

haha I've never thought Kyle Korver was a good player. I was probably the only Bulls fan glad we got rid of him. Other than Thibbs.

And before anyone says he became an all-star, so did Jamal Magloire.


LOL, yeah no doubt!!

Yeah I wasn't the least bit concerned when Korver was basically traded for Hinrich and Belinelli. It wasn't an actual trade, but that's the way the roster and the PT and the salary structure worked out.

For me, Korver cost us the 2011 ECF. I know the Heat blitzed the hell out of Rose and made him give up the ball, but lots of times Korver got an open 3 out of it and just bricked it. Without looking it up, I'm pretty sure he was sub-.300 from behind the arc in that series.

Plus, it didn't do any good to have him when Thibs was Boganizing him and giving Brewer more minutes as well.
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Re: Which Bulls players have "exceeded" expectations so far? 

Post#48 » by League Circles » Fri Dec 8, 2017 2:10 pm

ArizonaBullsFan wrote:
League Circles wrote:
ArizonaBullsFan wrote:
Kyle Korver wants to know why you're dissin' him?

haha I've never thought Kyle Korver was a good player. I was probably the only Bulls fan glad we got rid of him. Other than Thibbs.

And before anyone says he became an all-star, so did Jamal Magloire.


LOL, yeah no doubt!!

Yeah I wasn't the least bit concerned when Korver was basically traded for Hinrich and Belinelli. It wasn't an actual trade, but that's the way the roster and the PT and the salary structure worked out.

For me, Korver cost us the 2011 ECF. I know the Heat blitzed the hell out of Rose and made him give up the ball, but lots of times Korver got an open 3 out of it and just bricked it. Without looking it up, I'm pretty sure he was sub-.300 from behind the arc in that series.

Plus, it didn't do any good to have him when Thibs was Boganizing him and giving Brewer more minutes as well.


Wow, I never knew anyone else felt this way. I agree with every word. People were complaining (rightly so) about nobody to handle the ball outside of Rose, but not putting two and two together and realizing how big (and accurate) of an indictment of Korver that was. Thibbs benched him for a reason. And yes we basically traded him for Kirk and Marco.
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Re: Which Bulls players have "exceeded" expectations so far? 

Post#49 » by ArizonaBullsFan » Fri Dec 8, 2017 2:29 pm

League Circles wrote:
ArizonaBullsFan wrote:
League Circles wrote:haha I've never thought Kyle Korver was a good player. I was probably the only Bulls fan glad we got rid of him. Other than Thibbs.

And before anyone says he became an all-star, so did Jamal Magloire.


LOL, yeah no doubt!!

Yeah I wasn't the least bit concerned when Korver was basically traded for Hinrich and Belinelli. It wasn't an actual trade, but that's the way the roster and the PT and the salary structure worked out.

For me, Korver cost us the 2011 ECF. I know the Heat blitzed the hell out of Rose and made him give up the ball, but lots of times Korver got an open 3 out of it and just bricked it. Without looking it up, I'm pretty sure he was sub-.300 from behind the arc in that series.

Plus, it didn't do any good to have him when Thibs was Boganizing him and giving Brewer more minutes as well.


Wow, I never knew anyone else felt this way. I agree with every word. People were complaining (rightly so) about nobody to handle the ball outside of Rose, but not putting two and two together and realizing how big (and accurate) of an indictment of Korver that was. Thibbs benched him for a reason. And yes we basically traded him for Kirk and Marco.


Very cool, yeah I don't think I was even reading this board yet when Korver was traded (like June or July 2012?), I also never knew anyone agreed with me about the whole situation.

I was probably reading that Bulls Confidential blog back, I didn't comment very often but I usually read all the comments. That blog had a lot of traffic, lots and lots of comments, though I started reading it for the writing, which was just totally outstanding.

Now that I think about it, that's where I heard of this board, I read this for at least like 3-4 years before I ever registered. The dude who wrote the Bulls Confidential was always mentioning this place (his name was Doug, right?).

I quit reading it when he quit writing it, I tried for a few months but it was just complete garbage after he left. C'est la vie
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Re: Which Bulls players have "exceeded" expectations so far? 

Post#50 » by erlim » Sun Dec 10, 2017 3:48 pm

I thought Lauri was just going to be Bargnani 2.0, not clear of that yet, but looks like there's a decent chance that he'll be better. Dunn looked like a certifiable flop after his Rookie year, but he's making the most of his opportunities.
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