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TheSuzerain wrote:Shill wrote:JimmyButler21 wrote:Markkanen playing well is literally the only win out of this one. Everything else, just closer to NBA Hell.
We were in NBA Hell the last two years.
This year we have young assets and avenues to get better.
Are they assets if no one will trade much of anything for them?
Ben wrote:RememberLu wrote:Jeffster81 wrote:
Could be worse, we could be one Lebron James leaving Cleveland away from being irrelevant again. (How long do you think IT and Love will want to stay in Cleveland, if/when Lebron leaves town?)
Don't like RoLo/Holliday leading the charge, but I cannot hate a win.
Some days we look like we're one all-star level player away from contending
Absolutely not. Some days we look like we're one all-star level player away from being a regular playoff team that loses to the top tier teams year after year. Either we need to strike gold in the draft-- probably more than once-- or sign a superstar-level player, or maybe both. It's too hard to contend without that level of talent. I'm just re-stating what almost everyone here realizes, but after your post I felt it needed to be restated.
We are much better than I thought we would be at this point, which unfortunately is a very bad thing. The good things are that Dunn and Lauri have looked so much better than I thought they would be, that Lavine is back in action, and maybe-- MAYBE-- Niko's great play will bring a nice trade return. Everything else is unfortunate if you want to build a contender rather than return to NBA hell. I really do credit those who foresaw value in the Butler trade pieces, but that value isn't putting us in better position to contend unless we sign or draft a superstar or high-level all-star. The goal is not to become the Wizards.
Dresden wrote:TheSuzerain wrote:Shill wrote:
We were in NBA Hell the last two years.
This year we have young assets and avenues to get better.
Are they assets if no one will trade much of anything for them?
If they are helping you to win 2/3's of your games, they're assets to the Bulls!
Rerisen wrote:kyrv wrote:The list of teams that bottom out and draft a top 3 pick superstar and win a title with that player continously on the team is really really short in recent decades. The amount of outrage (not from you, to be clear), does not seem to be warranted, given the stacked odds against sucking teams winning titles.
Every method is a really short list of title winners. But the one thing 85% or more of them all share is elite superstar talent. The frustration is really with that the Bulls aren't looking to get 1 single shot to pick where these players vast majority come from. And a lot of it is self-inflicted due to how they didn't totally dismantle superfluous pieces in the offseason.
After this year the Bulls will almost certainly get some degree better yet, and then it may be another 5-10 years before the next rebuild is executed before they'll get another similar chance. That would have been fine if they thought Dunn, Lavine, Lauri had that kind of talent so that it wasn't needed via the draft, but realistically do they?
AKfanatic wrote:tiffac wrote:The Hawks is a tank done right. lol
And they’ll be lucky to get a young guy that shows as much promise as the Finnish Fundamental
Rerisen wrote:kyrv wrote:The list of teams that bottom out and draft a top 3 pick superstar and win a title with that player continously on the team is really really short in recent decades. The amount of outrage (not from you, to be clear), does not seem to be warranted, given the stacked odds against sucking teams winning titles.
Every method is a really short list of title winners. But the one thing 85% or more of them all share is elite superstar talent. The frustration is really with that the Bulls aren't looking to get 1 single shot to pick where these players vast majority come from. And a lot of it is self-inflicted due to how they didn't totally dismantle superfluous pieces in the offseason.
After this year the Bulls will almost certainly get some degree better yet, and then it may be another 5-10 years before the next rebuild is executed before they'll get another similar chance. That would have been fine if they thought Dunn, Lavine, Lauri had that kind of talent so that it wasn't needed via the draft, but realistically do they?
TheSuzerain wrote:Dresden wrote:TheSuzerain wrote:Are they assets if no one will trade much of anything for them?
If they are helping you to win 2/3's of your games, they're assets to the Bulls!
2/3's of our games? We're the 3rd best team in the East?
Dresden wrote:Rerisen wrote:kyrv wrote:The list of teams that bottom out and draft a top 3 pick superstar and win a title with that player continously on the team is really really short in recent decades. The amount of outrage (not from you, to be clear), does not seem to be warranted, given the stacked odds against sucking teams winning titles.
Every method is a really short list of title winners. But the one thing 85% or more of them all share is elite superstar talent. The frustration is really with that the Bulls aren't looking to get 1 single shot to pick where these players vast majority come from. And a lot of it is self-inflicted due to how they didn't totally dismantle superfluous pieces in the offseason.
After this year the Bulls will almost certainly get some degree better yet, and then it may be another 5-10 years before the next rebuild is executed before they'll get another similar chance. That would have been fine if they thought Dunn, Lavine, Lauri had that kind of talent so that it wasn't needed via the draft, but realistically do they?
Golden State's best player: 7th pick in the draft.
Cleveland's best player- acquired as free agent.
Boston's best player- (KG), acquired in trade.
San Antonio's best player- drafted #1 overall.
Miami's best player- acquired as FA.
Lakers best player(s)- acquired with 13th pick in the draft (Kobe), and as free agent (Shaq).
Dallas' best player- acquired with 9th pick in the draft.
Detroit's best player- hard to say, no real superstar on this team
So only San Antonio actually acquired it's superstar talent via being in the top spot in the draft. No other team has had a top pick in the draft, and had that player lead them to a title (Lebron with CLE, but he actually left town, before coming back).
Dresden wrote:Ben wrote:RememberLu wrote:
Some days we look like we're one all-star level player away from contending
Absolutely not. Some days we look like we're one all-star level player away from being a regular playoff team that loses to the top tier teams year after year. Either we need to strike gold in the draft-- probably more than once-- or sign a superstar-level player, or maybe both. It's too hard to contend without that level of talent. I'm just re-stating what almost everyone here realizes, but after your post I felt it needed to be restated.
We are much better than I thought we would be at this point, which unfortunately is a very bad thing. The good things are that Dunn and Lauri have looked so much better than I thought they would be, that Lavine is back in action, and maybe-- MAYBE-- Niko's great play will bring a nice trade return. Everything else is unfortunate if you want to build a contender rather than return to NBA hell. I really do credit those who foresaw value in the Butler trade pieces, but that value isn't putting us in better position to contend unless we sign or draft a superstar or high-level all-star. The goal is not to become the Wizards.
It's not to be the Orlando Magic or Sacramento Kings either. Everyone thinks having high draft picks is an automatic ticket to the NBA finals in a few years time. Look at history- it just doesn't work out that way, except on rare occasions.
All we need is one free agent signing to put us right up there with the best teams in the east. And it's hard to imagine a star player on a lousy team not being excited at joining what we have building here in Chicago.
IcemanGervin wrote:Bulls are going to demolish the low tier teams. I could see a legit run at the 8 seed. They are only going to lose to the elite of the elite and even then they hang in those games. Hoping for a tank at this point is futile.
TheSuzerain wrote:Dresden wrote:TheSuzerain wrote:Are they assets if no one will trade much of anything for them?
If they are helping you to win 2/3's of your games, they're assets to the Bulls!
2/3's of our games? We're the 3rd best team in the East?
tiffac wrote:Dresden wrote:Rerisen wrote:
Every method is a really short list of title winners. But the one thing 85% or more of them all share is elite superstar talent. The frustration is really with that the Bulls aren't looking to get 1 single shot to pick where these players vast majority come from. And a lot of it is self-inflicted due to how they didn't totally dismantle superfluous pieces in the offseason.
After this year the Bulls will almost certainly get some degree better yet, and then it may be another 5-10 years before the next rebuild is executed before they'll get another similar chance. That would have been fine if they thought Dunn, Lavine, Lauri had that kind of talent so that it wasn't needed via the draft, but realistically do they?
Golden State's best player: 7th pick in the draft.
Cleveland's best player- acquired as free agent.
Boston's best player- (KG), acquired in trade.
San Antonio's best player- drafted #1 overall.
Miami's best player- acquired as FA.
Lakers best player(s)- acquired with 13th pick in the draft (Kobe), and as free agent (Shaq).
Dallas' best player- acquired with 9th pick in the draft.
Detroit's best player- hard to say, no real superstar on this team
So only San Antonio actually acquired it's superstar talent via being in the top spot in the draft. No other team has had a top pick in the draft, and had that player lead them to a title (Lebron with CLE, but he actually left town, before coming back).
Wasn’t Kyrie number 1 draft pick? You gotta at least count him, he made the winning play.
I think all of the Pistons players were FA except for Prince (I could be wrong can’t remember)
Ben wrote:Dresden wrote:Ben wrote:
Absolutely not. Some days we look like we're one all-star level player away from being a regular playoff team that loses to the top tier teams year after year. Either we need to strike gold in the draft-- probably more than once-- or sign a superstar-level player, or maybe both. It's too hard to contend without that level of talent. I'm just re-stating what almost everyone here realizes, but after your post I felt it needed to be restated.
We are much better than I thought we would be at this point, which unfortunately is a very bad thing. The good things are that Dunn and Lauri have looked so much better than I thought they would be, that Lavine is back in action, and maybe-- MAYBE-- Niko's great play will bring a nice trade return. Everything else is unfortunate if you want to build a contender rather than return to NBA hell. I really do credit those who foresaw value in the Butler trade pieces, but that value isn't putting us in better position to contend unless we sign or draft a superstar or high-level all-star. The goal is not to become the Wizards.
It's not to be the Orlando Magic or Sacramento Kings either. Everyone thinks having high draft picks is an automatic ticket to the NBA finals in a few years time. Look at history- it just doesn't work out that way, except on rare occasions.
All we need is one free agent signing to put us right up there with the best teams in the east. And it's hard to imagine a star player on a lousy team not being excited at joining what we have building here in Chicago.
Look, friend, what you're saying is essentially the same argument that many people made against tanking. Contra those who seemed to think that a high draft pick or two (or three) guaranteed a full rebuild, many people pointed out that a bird in the hand might be better. I don't care to rehash that argument any more. And if it turns out that we sign a high-level all-star, I will be really happy along with everyone else. I just don't especially expect it. We're not getting LeBron or Durant. Don't see why Chris Paul would come here over his other options, and he's much older than our core anyway. DeMarcus Cousins? Unlikely, and unlikely to make us true contenders. Same for Paul George. When you talk about star players on lousy teams who might be excited to join the Bulls, you have to name names or it's just meaningless hype. A very good but not tremendous player is not going to have us competing with the Warriors and Rockets. Just won't happen.
I'm not trying to piss in anyone's cheerios. It is what it is. We want the talent that we have now-- but we should want it in addition to top draft picks, not instead of that latter. Depending on free agency is a fool's errand and many of us on this board have been through it many times.
Dresden wrote:tiffac wrote:Dresden wrote:
Golden State's best player: 7th pick in the draft.
Cleveland's best player- acquired as free agent.
Boston's best player- (KG), acquired in trade.
San Antonio's best player- drafted #1 overall.
Miami's best player- acquired as FA.
Lakers best player(s)- acquired with 13th pick in the draft (Kobe), and as free agent (Shaq).
Dallas' best player- acquired with 9th pick in the draft.
Detroit's best player- hard to say, no real superstar on this team
So only San Antonio actually acquired it's superstar talent via being in the top spot in the draft. No other team has had a top pick in the draft, and had that player lead them to a title (Lebron with CLE, but he actually left town, before coming back).
Wasn’t Kyrie number 1 draft pick? You gotta at least count him, he made the winning play.
I think all of the Pistons players were FA except for Prince (I could be wrong can’t remember)
But Kyrie wasn't their best player- it was Lebron.
Dresden wrote:Ben wrote:Dresden wrote:
It's not to be the Orlando Magic or Sacramento Kings either. Everyone thinks having high draft picks is an automatic ticket to the NBA finals in a few years time. Look at history- it just doesn't work out that way, except on rare occasions.
All we need is one free agent signing to put us right up there with the best teams in the east. And it's hard to imagine a star player on a lousy team not being excited at joining what we have building here in Chicago.
Look, friend, what you're saying is essentially the same argument that many people made against tanking. Contra those who seemed to think that a high draft pick or two (or three) guaranteed a full rebuild, many people pointed out that a bird in the hand might be better. I don't care to rehash that argument any more. And if it turns out that we sign a high-level all-star, I will be really happy along with everyone else. I just don't especially expect it. We're not getting LeBron or Durant. Don't see why Chris Paul would come here over his other options, and he's much older than our core anyway. DeMarcus Cousins? Unlikely, and unlikely to make us true contenders. Same for Paul George. When you talk about star players on lousy teams who might be excited to join the Bulls, you have to name names or it's just meaningless hype. A very good but not tremendous player is not going to have us competing with the Warriors and Rockets. Just won't happen.
I'm not trying to piss in anyone's cheerios. It is what it is. We want the talent that we have now-- but we should want it in addition to top draft picks, not instead of that latter. Depending on free agency is a fool's errand and many of us on this board have been through it many times.
Many of us have also been through having a high lottery pick many times before, too, and we see how seldom that worked out.
