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NBA Draft 2018 5.0: Lucky #7 and 22.

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New poll, re-voting allowed

Mikal
26
17%
Young
32
21%
Carter
22
14%
MPJ
72
47%
 
Total votes: 152

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Re: NBA Draft 2018 5.0: Lucky #7 and 22. 

Post#641 » by sco » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:02 pm

I'm still ok at 7 with Ayton, Doncic, Bagley, JJJ, Bamba
After that, I'd love to trade down - if possible to LAC for 12/13.

I would consider a draft of Miles Bridges, Robert Williams and Heurter or DiVincenzo a win!
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Re: NBA Draft 2018 5.0: Lucky #7 and 22. 

Post#642 » by JimmyJammer » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:02 pm

blicka wrote:I couldn't care less about best fit with lauri. I want the best talent at 7 period

Lauri is not jordan you don't make picks based off fit around him. I hope the bulls draft mpj or trae young if both are gone at 7 then I guess bamba. Don't want wcj or mikal bridges


Yep, ironically, Portland made that mistake in 1985 when they selected Sam Bowie instead of Jordan because they thought that Jordan would not fit with Clyde Drexler. In the end, you should always draft the best player available. Btw, I believe the Bulls are using some members in the media to help them camouflage their plan to draft Porter. Whether it is Goodwill, KC Johnson, not even one of them is confirming what the national media has been saying about the Bulls plan to draft Porter. The strange thing is even LaVine who was tweeting about Porter about two months ago has been tight-lipped. I really smell something brewing.
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Re: RE: Re: NBA Draft 2018 5.0: Lucky #7 and 22. 

Post#643 » by Red Larrivee » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:04 pm

The Evidence wrote:It is disingenuous to spam it. He's missing on "Make or Miss" shots.

Porter is a shooter. When his shot is not falling, his weaknesses look worse. Its also why he's falling to #7 and not going #1.

For someone to say "Well look, this video completely encapsulates MPJ" ...that is not correct. There's tons of video of him playing well too.

Someone wrote earlier that they watched a Doncic video highlighting his flaws and now they're completely done with him.

Thats just intellectually lazy and a knee-jerk response.


The difference to me is how you look when you're having a bad game. Missing good shots is not a problem; missing bad shots is a problem. The latter is why people were frustrated with Zach LaVine's offense last year. He dribbled a lot and waved players off into low percentage shots. That's what Porter's offense looks like to me. I get a Rudy Gay vibe from him in the sense that I absolutely expect him to become an NBA level scorer, but I just don't see the parts of his game that are high percentage and makes players better.


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Re: NBA Draft 2018 5.0: Lucky #7 and 22. 

Post#644 » by DuckIII » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:06 pm

The Evidence wrote:It is disingenuous to spam it. He's missing on "Make or Miss" shots.



The problem with that is that in the half court that's the only types of shots he can get. That isn't special. Its ordinary. Being a couple inches taller than other guys who do that isn't high-lottery worthy when the rest of your game is one big sprawling weakness.

Porter is a shooter. When his shot is not falling, his weaknesses look worse. Its also why he's falling to #7 and not going #1.


Mikal Bridges is "a shooter" who did it against significantly better competition and who projects as one of the best defenders in the whole draft. And yes, when the only thing you supposedly do well isn't working, it makes weaknesses look worse because all there is left is the weaknesses. And he's falling because of his back.

For someone to say "Well look, this video completely encapsulates MPJ" ...that is not correct. There's tons of video of him playing well too.


First, no one is saying that. Second, there's no live-game video of him "playing well." There's just live-game video of him having a better shooting night. But all of the other concerns are still obvious in every single video of MPJ out there, and I've seen virtually all of them.

Someone wrote earlier that they watched a Doncic video highlighting his flaws and now they're completely done with him.

Thats just intellectually lazy and a knee-jerk response.


I don't know how many times it bears repeating, but that's not what is happening here. At least not with me.
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Re: NBA Draft 2018 5.0: Lucky #7 and 22. 

Post#645 » by DuckIII » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:12 pm

AshyLarrysDiaper wrote:
DuckIII wrote:
NecessaryEvil wrote:See what I did there? I'm not a scout, I'm a fan. As a fan of the Chicago Bulls, it's my duty to want what's best for the franchise. Whatever direction they go in is fine with me, but a highlight video of MPJ one NIGHT isn't going to deter me from his obvious talents.


Its not about his back - thought that's a big issue - or one night. Go back and look at posts from guys like me and Red Larrivee. We were making these exact same observations about MPJ based on completely different live-game videos even before he injured his back.

Once it was obvious we were in tank mode for this year and we started making draft threads, I went in with a completely clean slate. I had no predetermined notions about MPJ whatsoever and had no player rankings in mind. I started watching MPJ videos, and videos of others, and immediately started writing posts saying that I must be missing something with Porter because he looked terribly ordinary and had massive holes in his game on both ends of the floor. It was obvious.

It reminded me so much of the first time I watched OJ Mayo play that it felt like deja vu. Not because they are comparable players, but because there reality as prospects was absolutely nothing like their reputations as prospects.

NBA scouts get it wrong every damn year. We all know this. No one disputes it. And yet we defer to their judgment when they prematurely dub some kid a "potential #1 pick in the draft." It makes no sense.

I'm not suggesting MPJ is a bust type prospect. He's a solid NBA prospect in today's league. But there is nothing dynamic or special about his kid at all compared to the other top 7-8 prospects. Ayton is a physical rarity. Doncic is a basketball prodigy with unique skills. Young, though I have serious concerns about translation, is extraordinarily skilled as a shooter and passer. Bamba is almost an inhuman freak of nature. Bagley is more explosive and tenacious, putting up extreme production in college even though he's still raw. JJJ is a 3 and D center.


Out of curiosity, is there anyone mocked in the 7-10 range that you would take ahead of him?


Young, Mikal Bridges and WCJ. I would take all of them ahead of MPJ.
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Re: RE: Re: NBA Draft 2018 5.0: Lucky #7 and 22. 

Post#646 » by fleet » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:12 pm

Red Larrivee wrote:
The Evidence wrote:It is disingenuous to spam it. He's missing on "Make or Miss" shots.

Porter is a shooter. When his shot is not falling, his weaknesses look worse. Its also why he's falling to #7 and not going #1.

For someone to say "Well look, this video completely encapsulates MPJ" ...that is not correct. There's tons of video of him playing well too.

Someone wrote earlier that they watched a Doncic video highlighting his flaws and now they're completely done with him.

Thats just intellectually lazy and a knee-jerk response.


The difference to me is how you look when you're having a bad game. Missing good shots is not a problem; missing bad shots is a problem. The latter is why people were frustrated with Zach LaVine's offense last year. He dribbled a lot and waved players off into low percentage shots. That's what Porter's offense looks like to me.

Fair assessment. It comes down to a personality evaluation. Can the Bulls trust him to be coached? If the Bulls take him, he would be judged affirmatively.
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Re: RE: Re: RE: Re: NBA Draft 2018 5.0: Lucky #7 and 22. 

Post#647 » by Red Larrivee » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:15 pm

fleet wrote:Fair assessment. It comes down to a personality evaluation. Can the Bulls trust him to be coached? If the Bulls take him, he would be judged affirmatively.


I'm assuming he's coachable. But, I guess it's more important in wondering how he envisions his ideal form of basketball.

I agree that the ideal role you'd want him in is already how we use Markkanen.

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Re: NBA Draft 2018 5.0: Lucky #7 and 22. 

Post#648 » by Hangtime84 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:21 pm

MPJ handles in these videos looks slightly better than Lauri's and appears to have same strength problem too
Jcool0 wrote:
aguifs wrote:Do we have a friggin plan?


If the Bulls do, you would be complaining to much to ever hear it.


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Re: NBA Draft 2018 5.0: Lucky #7 and 22. 

Post#649 » by Truebiscuit » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:25 pm

Hangtime84 wrote:MPJ handles in these videos looks slightly better than Lauri's and appears to have same strength problem too


I don't see him as a slasher/penetrater at all. He was struggling to do so against high school kids, what the hell is he going to do in the NBA?

Do you just run him around screens and have him chuck up 3s? Put him in the post? I just can't see how anyone considers this dude a 3... he's a 4 every-single-day.
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Re: NBA Draft 2018 5.0: Lucky #7 and 22. 

Post#650 » by Chitownbulls » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:26 pm

Could Kris Dunn + Bobby Portis land is another top 7 pick?

You then draft 2 of....Ayton, Bagley, Doncic, JJJ, Bamba, Porter or Trae

Getting rid of Bobby could allow us to go after 2 MAX free agents
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Re: NBA Draft 2018 5.0: Lucky #7 and 22. 

Post#651 » by Chitownbulls » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:27 pm

Truebiscuit wrote:
Hangtime84 wrote:MPJ handles in these videos looks slightly better than Lauri's and appears to have same strength problem too


I don't see him as a slasher/penetrater at all. He was struggling to do so against high school kids, what the hell is he going to do in the NBA?

Do you just run him around screens and have him chuck up 3s? Put him in the post? I just can't see how anyone considers this dude a 3... he's a 4 every-single-day.


Play him at the 3 an you can start 3 7footers
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Re: NBA Draft 2018 5.0: Lucky #7 and 22. 

Post#652 » by Hangtime84 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:30 pm

Truebiscuit wrote:
Hangtime84 wrote:MPJ handles in these videos looks slightly better than Lauri's and appears to have same strength problem too


I don't see him as a slasher/penetrater at all. He was struggling to do so against high school kids, what the hell is he going to do in the NBA?

Do you just run him around screens and have him chuck up 3s? Put him in the post? I just can't see how anyone considers this dude a 3... he's a 4 every-single-day.


He might be a 3 similar to how Niko was. He moves better than Niko does that was with an injured back. He could improve his handle similar to how Durant did. I'm not saying the skillset isn't there just weak right now.

I need to compare MPJ to a Brandon Ingram.
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aguifs wrote:Do we have a friggin plan?


If the Bulls do, you would be complaining to much to ever hear it.


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Re: NBA Draft 2018 5.0: Lucky #7 and 22. 

Post#653 » by DuckIII » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:32 pm

Chitownbulls wrote:Could Kris Dunn + Bobby Portis land is another top 7 pick?


No.
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Re: NBA Draft 2018 5.0: Lucky #7 and 22. 

Post#654 » by mschmidt64 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:34 pm

At this point I want the Bulls to trade up so we're out of the WCJ/Bridges discussions.

Whether their guy is Porter, Young, Bamba, Bagley, whatever, I just want one of the high ceiling guys.
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Re: NBA Draft 2018 5.0: Lucky #7 and 22. 

Post#655 » by _txchilibowl_ » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:34 pm

Regarding MPJ :

I realize we have some very knowledgeable posters on this board....I do. But I'm not taking their evaluations over those of professional scouts. MPJ has been rated a high level prospect for at least the last 3 years and nothing has apparently changed that opinion, as glowing reports are still rolling in.

Yes....scouts can and will make mistakes. It's the nature of the business. But I'm positive their "hit rate" is much, much higher than that of even the best Realgmers.

If there is an overwhelming professional view of a prospect that differs from your own there's a good chance you're wrong. Something to keep in mind when making declarations...
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Re: NBA Draft 2018 5.0: Lucky #7 and 22. 

Post#656 » by Truebiscuit » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:35 pm

Chitownbulls wrote:
Truebiscuit wrote:
Hangtime84 wrote:MPJ handles in these videos looks slightly better than Lauri's and appears to have same strength problem too


I don't see him as a slasher/penetrater at all. He was struggling to do so against high school kids, what the hell is he going to do in the NBA?

Do you just run him around screens and have him chuck up 3s? Put him in the post? I just can't see how anyone considers this dude a 3... he's a 4 every-single-day.


Play him at the 3 an you can start 3 7footers


I don't think that's ideal in today's NBA.
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Re: NBA Draft 2018 5.0: Lucky #7 and 22. 

Post#657 » by imagge » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:35 pm

Hangtime84 wrote:
Truebiscuit wrote:
Hangtime84 wrote:MPJ handles in these videos looks slightly better than Lauri's and appears to have same strength problem too


I don't see him as a slasher/penetrater at all. He was struggling to do so against high school kids, what the hell is he going to do in the NBA?

Do you just run him around screens and have him chuck up 3s? Put him in the post? I just can't see how anyone considers this dude a 3... he's a 4 every-single-day.


He might be a 3 similar to how Niko was. He moves better than Niko does that was with an injured back. He could improve his handle similar to how Durant did. I'm not saying the skillset isn't there just weak right now.

I need to compare MPJ to a Brandon Ingram.


This is the best comp I have seen and he has that dog which is Ingram's issue.....The Laker's wish he had that dog mentality with the skills he posses....MPJ has those same skill with that dog.....ceiling is high but so is bust potential....Isn't that why you tank and to take the player with the highest ceiling? Then hope he reaches that ceiling? There are no guarantees with any draft pick
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Re: NBA Draft 2018 5.0: Lucky #7 and 22. 

Post#658 » by Truebiscuit » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:36 pm

mschmidt64 wrote:At this point I want the Bulls to trade up so we're out of the WCJ/Bridges discussions.

Whether their guy is Porter, Young, Bamba, Bagley, whatever, I just want one of the high ceiling guys.


You can rest assured that one of Porter, Young, or Bamba will be there at #7. If they aren't, it means Bagley, JJJ, Doncic, or Ayton fell.
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Re: NBA Draft 2018 5.0: Lucky #7 and 22. 

Post#659 » by TheSuzerain » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:39 pm

Hangtime84 wrote:
Truebiscuit wrote:
Hangtime84 wrote:MPJ handles in these videos looks slightly better than Lauri's and appears to have same strength problem too


I don't see him as a slasher/penetrater at all. He was struggling to do so against high school kids, what the hell is he going to do in the NBA?

Do you just run him around screens and have him chuck up 3s? Put him in the post? I just can't see how anyone considers this dude a 3... he's a 4 every-single-day.


He might be a 3 similar to how Niko was. He moves better than Niko does that was with an injured back. He could improve his handle similar to how Durant did. I'm not saying the skillset isn't there just weak right now.

I need to compare MPJ to a Brandon Ingram.

uhhhh Niko was never a 3. Those line-ups were stupid.
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Re: NBA Draft 2018 5.0: Lucky #7 and 22. 

Post#660 » by AshyLarrysDiaper » Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:41 pm

Truebiscuit wrote:
mschmidt64 wrote:At this point I want the Bulls to trade up so we're out of the WCJ/Bridges discussions.

Whether their guy is Porter, Young, Bamba, Bagley, whatever, I just want one of the high ceiling guys.


You can rest assured that one of Porter, Young, or Bamba will be there at #7. If they aren't, it means Bagley, JJJ, Doncic, or Ayton fell.


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