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Bulls @ Pacers: Preseason Game #3

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Re: Bulls @ Pacers: Preseason Game #3 

Post#241 » by Ice Man » Sat Oct 12, 2019 8:57 pm

People keep saying Zion will be the best 19 year old since LeBron. Hmmm. LeBron as a rookie had a 49% TS%, which ain't much good. Zion will obliterate that level of scoring efficiency, while I think scoring as many points per game as LeBron did (21) and rebounding more (5.5). I doubt that he will average LeBron's 6 assists per game but Zion moves the ball around pretty well.

I think if LeBron is to prove the better 19 year old of the two, that argument will need to be made on defense. Offensively, I expect Zion to be better.
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Re: Bulls @ Pacers: Preseason Game #3 

Post#242 » by transplant » Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:03 pm

Ice Man wrote:People keep saying Zion will be the best 19 year old since LeBron. Hmmm. LeBron as a rookie had a 49% TS%, which ain't much good. Zion will obliterate that level of scoring efficiency, while I think scoring as many points per game as LeBron did (21) and rebounding more (5.5). I doubt that he will average LeBron's 6 assists per game but Zion moves the ball around pretty well.

I think if LeBron is to prove the better 19 year old of the two, that argument will need to be made on defense. Offensively, I expect Zion to be better.

I don't disagree with you, but I think you got the wrong game thread.
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Re: Bulls @ Pacers: Preseason Game #3 

Post#243 » by MrSparkle » Sat Oct 12, 2019 10:05 pm

econprof wrote:
MrSparkle wrote:
There’s not much difference at all between Portis/Jabari/Blakeney and the current fluff. Felicio, Valentine and Dunn are overpaid busts; the latter two should’ve been drafted in the 2nd rd. I’m annoyed that 3 guaranteed roster spots are still wasted on them.


There is a big difference. Portis, Jabari (and Blakeney by the end of the year) were all heavy minute rotation players and frequent starters. The current team has more depth (though still not enough), and Felicio, Valentine and Dunn will not see nearly as much PT, if any.


Well fair enough, I don’t disagree. Last year’s deep bench guys played more cause of injuries. Now we hopefully have health and 3 extra starter/6th-man talents in Sato, Otto, Thad... but just saying, the deep bench “farm” still sucks.
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Re: Bulls @ Pacers: Preseason Game #3 

Post#244 » by SfBull » Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:24 pm

GhostOfChicago wrote:Gafford reminds me so much of Taj Gibson. Yes he's taller but he's strong on the offensive boards, can screen and roll while catching lobs like Taj. Really good pick by the front office.

If he could develop a midrange and a 3 point shot he could be even better than Taj.He could even fight for being a starter.
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Re: Bulls @ Pacers: Preseason Game #3 

Post#245 » by GimmeDat » Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:31 pm

Gafford has the length and above the rim presence Taj has/had, same tools defensively, probably even more athletic, but Taj's offensive skill level totally outclasses what Gafford has/likely ever will and that gave him a ton more value as a player. Gafford's going to be a career paint finisher, i would be very surprised to see him develop more than that.

That's still great, he will play his role really well, but a player of that mold's effectiveness is pretty lineup dependent and his offensive value will fluctuate depending on how well guys can utilize him - he's a very dependent scorer and we saw with the 2nd/3rd stringers we had to throw out last game that his utility goes down.

Gafford barely took a jump-shot his whole college career, and if you see the ones he did take, they're not pretty. To project him to have a mid-range or 3 point game is daydreaming, I would say. You can't give it to him in the post and ask him to generate a bucket either. Taj was very advanced facing up or posting up, and all sorts of turnarounds, up and unders, etc. Gafford doesn't have any post moves.
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Re: Bulls @ Pacers: Preseason Game #3 

Post#246 » by SfBull » Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:44 pm

DASMACKDOWN wrote:SubZero is going to be the leader of the second unit.

I wouldn't be surprised if Coby he has a Ben Gordon type rookie year where he just takes over and wins a few games for us. I certainly think he will drop a few 30pt games off the bench.

I say this because when you figure the backups are going to be Young, Kornet, Valentine, Dunn and Coby, he is by far the best offensive option. The ball will probably be in his hands a lot. And we will need him to score.

When he plays with the starters over the course of the game. he can have the same energy but with more complimentary players. Coby really is the one guy that fits well with the bench or the starters.

I'm not so sure about Dunn and Val being locked at the 2nd unit , their spots still can be filled by Arch and Shaq.
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Re: Bulls @ Pacers: Preseason Game #3 

Post#247 » by SfBull » Sat Oct 12, 2019 11:53 pm

GimmeDat wrote:Gafford has the length and above the rim presence Taj has/had, same tools defensively, probably even more athletic, but Taj's offensive skill level totally outclasses what Gafford has/likely ever will and that gave him a ton more value as a player. Gafford's going to be a career paint finisher, i would be very surprised to see him develop more than that.

That's still great, he will play his role really well, but a player of that mold's effectiveness is pretty lineup dependent and his offensive value will fluctuate depending on how well guys can utilize him - he's a very dependent scorer and we saw with the 2nd/3rd stringers we had to throw out last game that his utility goes down.

Gafford barely took a jump-shot his whole college career, and if you see the ones he did take, they're not pretty. To project him to have a mid-range or 3 point game is daydreaming, I would say. You can't give it to him in the post and ask him to generate a bucket either. Taj was very advanced facing up or posting up, and all sorts of turnarounds, up and unders, etc. Gafford doesn't have any post moves.

I agree and if he had some outside shot he wouldn't be available on the 2nd round.But he has the potential for contributing from the bench.
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Re: Bulls @ Pacers: Preseason Game #3 

Post#248 » by Dez » Sun Oct 13, 2019 12:07 am

ZOMG wrote:
Dez wrote:
ZOMG wrote:
I hate how everyone is intentionally misunderstanding the Kornet vs. Lauri thing.

Kornet is not a guy who's gonna suddenly take over when playing with hopeless G-Leaguers and borderline NBA talent like in this game. He's 100% about intelligent team basketball, and that was in very short supply. It looked like Summer League - guards pounding the ball and jacking up shots with blinders on.

I just happen to think that Kornet, while not a great individual scorer or anything, just may be the ideal combo 4/5 for this season's starting lineup. His game doesn't "take up space". He knows what he can do. Of course he's just a cog in the machine - not like Lauri, who people are expecting to become an All Star. But this season's team needs people who are smart, active and able to take what defenses give them at a given moment.

Lauri's game isn't clicking right now. If you take away his pick and pop shooting, he's been very underwhelming. Of course he'll start and play his usual minutes - the NBA is about business, egos, and marketing as well as the pure game - but I just don't understand why it's sacrilege to say that Kornet could probably match Lauri's production if he got the same amount of touches and shots. That said, it's WCJ who's in more danger of losing minutes to the UniKornet.

Markkanen needs to be held accountable, and it starts by asking why he didn't work in the offseason to improve his game. I just think it's a red flag.

It's a red flag you've pulled out of your anus.


Stay classy!

It's been 3 pre-season games of which he's played two and you're making this sweeping statement, premature doesn't even begin to describe this hot take.


The difference between you and me is that I do have a small preseason sample of Lauri playing with the exact same flaws as last season. You, on the other hand, don't have any evidence of the contrary, just wishful thinking.

The season starts in 10 days. What we're seeing now is what we're gonna get.


The difference between you and me is that you're trying to make sweeping statements based out of a very minuscule sample from two pre-season games, an extremely silly thing to do.
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Re: Bulls @ Pacers: Preseason Game #3 

Post#249 » by HomoSapien » Sun Oct 13, 2019 1:10 am

GimmeDat wrote:Gafford has the length and above the rim presence Taj has/had, same tools defensively, probably even more athletic, but Taj's offensive skill level totally outclasses what Gafford has/likely ever will and that gave him a ton more value as a player. Gafford's going to be a career paint finisher, i would be very surprised to see him develop more than that.

That's still great, he will play his role really well, but a player of that mold's effectiveness is pretty lineup dependent and his offensive value will fluctuate depending on how well guys can utilize him - he's a very dependent scorer and we saw with the 2nd/3rd stringers we had to throw out last game that his utility goes down.

Gafford barely took a jump-shot his whole college career, and if you see the ones he did take, they're not pretty. To project him to have a mid-range or 3 point game is daydreaming, I would say. You can't give it to him in the post and ask him to generate a bucket either. Taj was very advanced facing up or posting up, and all sorts of turnarounds, up and unders, etc. Gafford doesn't have any post moves.


Gafford reminds me more of Tyson Chandler than Taj Gibson. That said, for what it's worth, Taj really wasn't too skilled when he first joined the Bulls. He really developed his post game and perfected his mid-range jumper as well.
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Re: Bulls @ Pacers: Preseason Game #3 

Post#250 » by HomoSapien » Sun Oct 13, 2019 1:13 am

I know it's popular to say that preseason is meaningless (I've said it too), but it'd be nice to see us win some games as well. For a young team with no history of winning, I think it's sort of important from a mental standpoint to get some wins under our belt.
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Re: Bulls @ Pacers: Preseason Game #3 

Post#251 » by RedBulls23 » Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:28 am

transplant wrote:
Ice Man wrote:People keep saying Zion will be the best 19 year old since LeBron. Hmmm. LeBron as a rookie had a 49% TS%, which ain't much good. Zion will obliterate that level of scoring efficiency, while I think scoring as many points per game as LeBron did (21) and rebounding more (5.5). I doubt that he will average LeBron's 6 assists per game but Zion moves the ball around pretty well.

I think if LeBron is to prove the better 19 year old of the two, that argument will need to be made on defense. Offensively, I expect Zion to be better.

I don't disagree with you, but I think you got the wrong game thread.

There's never a wrong place to talk about Zion. :wink:
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Re: Bulls @ Pacers: Preseason Game #3 

Post#252 » by RedBulls23 » Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:34 am

HomoSapien wrote:I know it's popular to say that preseason is meaningless (I've said it too), but it'd be nice to see us win some games as well. For a young team with no history of winning, I think it's sort of important from a mental standpoint to get some wins under our belt.

Seems like they will have their regular rotation going against the Raptors. It's the 2nd to last preseason game I believe, so I think they likely will play as if it's a regular season game.
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Re: Bulls @ Pacers: Preseason Game #3 

Post#253 » by NDave79 » Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:51 am

GimmeDat wrote:Gafford has the length and above the rim presence Taj has/had, same tools defensively, probably even more athletic, but Taj's offensive skill level totally outclasses what Gafford has/likely ever will and that gave him a ton more value as a player. Gafford's going to be a career paint finisher, i would be very surprised to see him develop more than that.

That's still great, he will play his role really well, but a player of that mold's effectiveness is pretty lineup dependent and his offensive value will fluctuate depending on how well guys can utilize him - he's a very dependent scorer and we saw with the 2nd/3rd stringers we had to throw out last game that his utility goes down.

Gafford barely took a jump-shot his whole college career, and if you see the ones he did take, they're not pretty. To project him to have a mid-range or 3 point game is daydreaming, I would say. You can't give it to him in the post and ask him to generate a bucket either. Taj was very advanced facing up or posting up, and all sorts of turnarounds, up and unders, etc. Gafford doesn't have any post moves.


I was thinking the exact same stuff when I heard about the Taj comparisons. I still like my Chris "birdman" Anderson comparison as far as size, athleticism and skill set.
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Re: Bulls @ Pacers: Preseason Game #3 

Post#254 » by Chi town » Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:07 am

Will be great to see our full starting 5 tomorrow.

Hope WCJ looks good.
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Re: Bulls @ Pacers: Preseason Game #3 

Post#255 » by Showtime23 » Sun Oct 13, 2019 6:22 am

GimmeDat wrote:Gafford has the length and above the rim presence Taj has/had, same tools defensively, probably even more athletic, but Taj's offensive skill level totally outclasses what Gafford has/likely ever will and that gave him a ton more value as a player. Gafford's going to be a career paint finisher, i would be very surprised to see him develop more than that.

That's still great, he will play his role really well, but a player of that mold's effectiveness is pretty lineup dependent and his offensive value will fluctuate depending on how well guys can utilize him - he's a very dependent scorer and we saw with the 2nd/3rd stringers we had to throw out last game that his utility goes down.

Gafford barely took a jump-shot his whole college career, and if you see the ones he did take, they're not pretty. To project him to have a mid-range or 3 point game is daydreaming, I would say. You can't give it to him in the post and ask him to generate a bucket either. Taj was very advanced facing up or posting up, and all sorts of turnarounds, up and unders, etc. Gafford doesn't have any post moves.


Except Gafford is a lot more athletic and is a block machine closer to Robinson/DAJ.
His finishing is extraordinary and can avg 10/10/2 under 20min just with dunking/alley oop.
Also, his work ethic is Butleresque. Which is why im betting he develops a jumpshot like Taj has and avg 15pts.
I want him to make WCJ expendable so they can trade him if necessary and get an elite wing.
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Re: Bulls @ Pacers: Preseason Game #3 

Post#256 » by Dez » Sun Oct 13, 2019 6:35 am

Showtime23 wrote:
GimmeDat wrote:Gafford has the length and above the rim presence Taj has/had, same tools defensively, probably even more athletic, but Taj's offensive skill level totally outclasses what Gafford has/likely ever will and that gave him a ton more value as a player. Gafford's going to be a career paint finisher, i would be very surprised to see him develop more than that.

That's still great, he will play his role really well, but a player of that mold's effectiveness is pretty lineup dependent and his offensive value will fluctuate depending on how well guys can utilize him - he's a very dependent scorer and we saw with the 2nd/3rd stringers we had to throw out last game that his utility goes down.

Gafford barely took a jump-shot his whole college career, and if you see the ones he did take, they're not pretty. To project him to have a mid-range or 3 point game is daydreaming, I would say. You can't give it to him in the post and ask him to generate a bucket either. Taj was very advanced facing up or posting up, and all sorts of turnarounds, up and unders, etc. Gafford doesn't have any post moves.


Except Gafford is a lot more athletic and is a block machine closer to Robinson/DAJ.
His finishing is extraordinary and can avg 10/10/2 under 20min just with dunking/alley oop.
Also, his work ethic is Butleresque. Which is why im betting he develops a jumpshot like Taj has and avg 15pts.
I want him to make WCJ expendable so they can trade him if necessary and get an elite wing.


Having a good work ethic doesn't mean he'll develop a jump shot especially now given up until this point in time he doesn't have one nor does he attempt jump shots.

You're vastly overrating him as a prospect.
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Re: Bulls @ Pacers: Preseason Game #3 

Post#257 » by SfBull » Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:58 pm

HomoSapien wrote:I know it's popular to say that preseason is meaningless (I've said it too), but it'd be nice to see us win some games as well. For a young team with no history of winning, I think it's sort of important from a mental standpoint to get some wins under our belt.

Most winnable game being against Hawks.
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Re: Bulls @ Pacers: Preseason Game #3 

Post#258 » by sco » Sun Oct 13, 2019 3:12 pm

SfBull wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:I know it's popular to say that preseason is meaningless (I've said it too), but it'd be nice to see us win some games as well. For a young team with no history of winning, I think it's sort of important from a mental standpoint to get some wins under our belt.

Most winnable game being against Hawks.

Agree to an extent, but I put winning preseason games as a goal behind:

1) Starting season with healthy rotation
2) Using preseason to convince Kingpin that Dunn and Felicio should not be in the rotation
:clap:
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Re: Bulls @ Pacers: Preseason Game #3 

Post#259 » by FriedRise » Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:01 pm

Read on Twitter


- WCJ will start tonight and play around 16 minutes
- Starters will play in the 4th quarter
- Rotations will be tightened up and will involve guys who will actually be playing the regular season
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Re: Bulls @ Pacers: Preseason Game #3 

Post#260 » by Ice Man » Sun Oct 13, 2019 9:47 pm

transplant wrote:I don't disagree with you, but I think you got the wrong game thread.


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