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Post Game: Bulls Win, Lauri shows signs of life

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Re: Post Game: Bulls Win, Lauri shows signs of life 

Post#101 » by DuckIII » Tue Dec 3, 2019 7:57 pm

dougthonus wrote:I am at the point where I'm rooting for losses and tanking would prefer they didn't beat one of the teams they're competing with for those worst spots.


I’m so disillusioned that I skipped the “wanting to tank” phase. I went from curious optimism straight to pure apathy.
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Re: Post Game: Bulls Win, Lauri shows signs of life 

Post#102 » by Ccwatercraft » Tue Dec 3, 2019 8:16 pm

jump wrote:
MrSparkle wrote:I hate our “pillar” bigs.

Hate the pairing.

Wendell and Lauri are simply pathetic rebounders and shotblockers. Between the two of them: 17 and 0.

And that’s also their season average, plus 1.3 blocks a game.

This is the softest big line-up in the NBA. For whatever IQ and muscle he has, Wendell’s slow as molasses, has no vertical burst, limited height for his position, and mediocre hands.

I feel like Kanter would be an upgrade.

Porzingis looks like Mutombo compared to these guys.



I don't know what game you watched, but I saw Wendell grab 10 tough rebounds. He made a couple of flubs near the end, but otherwise had a good game.


I agree, he worked hard on the boards. Down the stretch I saw to really bad pass/lobs from dunn (I think) one to Lauri, and one to WCJ, both into double if not triple teams, it was bizarre.
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Re: Post Game: Bulls Win, Lauri shows signs of life 

Post#103 » by Leslie Forman » Tue Dec 3, 2019 8:25 pm

FriedRise wrote:Unless he's guarding a 3pt shooting big, Wendell should be primarily a drop coverage big where his primary role is to clog the paint, protect the rim, box out, and grab rebounds. Right now he can't do any of that effectively because the system always puts him in a terrible position.

NBA basketball in 2019 puts him in a terrible position. One of the primary goals of every offense today is to pull the center away from the paint. Many teams today just straight up play 5 out for big chunks of the game. There is literally only one long term solution to that - have an athletic center who can competently guard the perimeter. That ain't Wendell (or Markkanen), and that's why the whole Wendell=Horford thing has always been an absolutely awful comparison, and that's why the two of them together are simply not a viable long-term pairing.
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Re: Post Game: Bulls Win, Lauri shows signs of life 

Post#104 » by MrSparkle » Tue Dec 3, 2019 8:47 pm

jacoby1us wrote:
MrSparkle wrote:I hate our “pillar” bigs.

Hate the pairing.

Wendell and Lauri are simply pathetic rebounders and shotblockers. Between the two of them: 17 and 0.

And that’s also their season average, plus 1.3 blocks a game.

This is the softest big line-up in the NBA. For whatever IQ and muscle he has, Wendell’s slow as molasses, has no vertical burst, limited height for his position, and mediocre hands.

I feel like Kanter would be an upgrade.

Porzingis looks like Mutombo compared to these guys.


Porzingis is 7'3" compared to a 6'10" Lauri and 6'8" Carter Jr.


Which is a big part of the problem.

I thought that the redeeming part of a 6'8 center would be his offensive skill with the ball; handles, 3P range, and mobility to defend guards.

Otherwise, since he's not 7'3, I'm seeing an 'average' ceiling from a hard-working, tough player.

It's a bummer.

Our two most prized young picks are small for their positions. Well, Lauri is tall for PF but very soft.
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Re: Post Game: Bulls Win, Lauri shows signs of life 

Post#105 » by NWIBullsFan » Tue Dec 3, 2019 9:19 pm

HomoSapien wrote:
dice wrote:
bearadonisdna wrote:
Before tonights game, zach is 4th in points and 6th in ppg in the conference.
Thats practically allstar credentials.

similar to last season, when he didn't sniff all-star consideration. his team is once again bad, as is his defense. it's telling that you post this after a great scoring night for him in which he was arguably outplayed by his counterpart buddy hield


Hield is a solid player in his own right, but seems hard to criticize Zach for being lit up for 26 in a win and not Hield for giving up 28 to Zach in a loss to a bad team.


Zach scored 28 on 13 FGA, an .805 TS% with 3 ast, 2 to
Heild scored 26 on 21 FGA, a .550 TS% with 4 ast, 1 to

In no way was Zach outplayed by Heild on offense, it's not even close.

To your point yes, if anyone got 'lit up' in this game, it's Heild.
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Re: Post Game: Bulls Win, Lauri shows signs of life 

Post#106 » by NWIBullsFan » Tue Dec 3, 2019 9:22 pm

MetalFingaz wrote:
RSP83 wrote:the players need this win. I hate the FO all down to Boylen. But, I like the players on this team, I think they are better than what they are showing so far. That's why it's frustrating for me to see knowing that they're not getting the best coaching possible.

We don't even have a mediocre coach. Kings just missed a lot of shots tonight. Honestly we'd be better off if we just stopped blitzing ballhandlers that aren't close to a threat to score and let Zach try the Harden approach on offense.


It's funny and seemingly related from my guess, but the more people bitch about the Bulls' defense, the better it gets. Up to 12th in the league in Def Rtg after last night.

The Kings missed a lot of open shots tonight, but they shot 48.2% from the field to 48.0% for the Bulls... and I've seen the Bulls miss A LOT of open shots this season, our losses still count as losses.

But as always, if the Bulls players or coach or FO do anything good, there's excuses and extenuating circumstances. Almost 100% of the time, it seems. :banghead:
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Re: Post Game: Bulls Win, Lauri shows signs of life 

Post#107 » by johnnyvann840 » Tue Dec 3, 2019 9:39 pm

DuckIII wrote:
dougthonus wrote:I am at the point where I'm rooting for losses and tanking would prefer they didn't beat one of the teams they're competing with for those worst spots.


I’m so disillusioned that I skipped the “wanting to tank” phase. I went from curious optimism straight to pure apathy.


I think this is basically the collective thought process shared by almost all but the most delusional of Bulls fans.
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Re: Post Game: Bulls Win, Lauri shows signs of life 

Post#108 » by Showtime23 » Tue Dec 3, 2019 9:39 pm

CBS7 wrote:Good win. Any win where Lauri is invisible is almost as bad as a loss.

Zach seems to be back on track. He's posting career highs in OBPM, DBPM, BPM, and WS/48, while approaching last year's PER and TS% numbers. Averaging 32/4/3/2 on .500/.571/.806 splits in his last 5. Still has the same TO/random bonehead moments but with a better coach he could be an elite 2nd offensive option on a contender.

If Lauri gets going this team can threaten for the playoffs and the future looks less bleak.


Do you really believe Zach can get career high in those advanced stats for the whole year? Even if he did, he is such a negative player it would not impress me one bit but it is very likely he reverts back since he was posting careers highs in start of the season and went rock bottom until past few game.
Zach's ability to make difficult shots is why you put him on a 6th man role, aka Lou Williams. Trying to feature him as a centerpiece all star guard primary ball handler will just result in another failed season since hes being asked to do too much for his skill/abilities.
Wiggins making all-NBA/ becoming perennial star is more likely than Lavine playing Klay Thompson on 2nd round playoff team.
Wiggins success is all sustainable since MJ level athleticism allows him to avg more blocks/rebounds/ fts and nothing is really forced.

You can argue Zach is an all star by putting up x points, but trade value ends the discussion right now.
My question is why is no one offering a lottery pick despite locked up for multiple years while Bogdan an impending RFA posting inferior stats will bring multiple good assets?
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Re: Post Game: Bulls Win, Lauri shows signs of life 

Post#109 » by ZOMG » Tue Dec 3, 2019 9:41 pm

Leslie Forman wrote:
FriedRise wrote:Unless he's guarding a 3pt shooting big, Wendell should be primarily a drop coverage big where his primary role is to clog the paint, protect the rim, box out, and grab rebounds. Right now he can't do any of that effectively because the system always puts him in a terrible position.

NBA basketball in 2019 puts him in a terrible position. One of the primary goals of every offense today is to pull the center away from the paint. Many teams today just straight up play 5 out for big chunks of the game. There is literally only one long term solution to that - have an athletic center who can competently guard the perimeter. That ain't Wendell (or Markkanen), and that's why the whole Wendell=Horford thing has always been an absolutely awful comparison, and that's why the two of them together are simply not a viable long-term pairing.


It's not enough to have an athletic rim protector at the 5. If it was, Gafford would play 30+ mins per game. The 5 also needs to be able to shoot enough to form a threat on the other side of the ball. Unfortunately, that's another part of Wendell's inadequacy.

The Bulls are operating as usual - first they pick the wrong guy and then they play him a ton of minutes, hoping he'll magically turn into the right guy. Carter and Coby are both examples of this M.O.
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Re: Post Game: Bulls Win, Lauri shows signs of life 

Post#110 » by johnnyvann840 » Tue Dec 3, 2019 9:45 pm

NWIBullsFan wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
dice wrote:similar to last season, when he didn't sniff all-star consideration. his team is once again bad, as is his defense. it's telling that you post this after a great scoring night for him in which he was arguably outplayed by his counterpart buddy hield


Hield is a solid player in his own right, but seems hard to criticize Zach for being lit up for 26 in a win and not Hield for giving up 28 to Zach in a loss to a bad team.


Zach scored 28 on 13 FGA, an .805 TS% with 3 ast, 2 to
Heild scored 26 on 21 FGA, a .550 TS% with 4 ast, 1 to

In no way was Zach outplayed by Heild on offense, it's not even close.

To your point yes, if anyone got 'lit up' in this game, it's Heild.


The Bulls entire starting lineup got lit up. The Bulls bench kicked the crap out of whoever was on the floor for Sacto in the game. Bulls starters were -4 (Lavine),-5 (Lauri),-6 (Sato),-3 (WCJ), -7 (Dunn).. Bench was +13 (Coby), +12 (Thad), +10 (Gafford), +15 (Valentine), +10 (Arci)
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Re: Post Game: Bulls Win, Lauri shows signs of life 

Post#111 » by dougthonus » Tue Dec 3, 2019 9:47 pm

ZOMG wrote:It's not enough to have an athletic rim protector at the 5. If it was, Gafford would play 30+ mins per game. The 5 also needs to be able to shoot enough to form a threat on the other side of the ball. Unfortunately, that's another part of Wendell's inadequacy.

The Bulls are operating as usual - first they pick the wrong guy and then they play him a ton of minutes, hoping he'll magically turn into the right guy. Carter and Coby are both examples of this M.O.


Who was the right guy to pick instead of Carter and Coby? Carter is more than capable as a 5 defender IMO. He has a very positive impact on our defense, he probably can't get out there and guard Curry well on a switch, but he can defend 4s and 5s well and protects the paint which is also still critical in today's day and age.

The problem with Carter is upside. He's got upside of a good player (and that seems really obvious already) but not a great player. That's probably fine at #7 overall.

The problem with Coby is just weak draft class. In theory, if Coby works out he's a two way guard who can shoot, drive, create, defend, etc... The problem is he's just not an athletic freak and doesn't have great length, but that just comes down to weak class of players, his skillset and type of player is the perfect fit for most multiple ball handler type offenses if his skillset translated (I don't think it will). The alternative was to gamble on different players with different major weaknesses.
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Re: Post Game: Bulls Win, Lauri shows signs of life 

Post#112 » by mtron32 » Tue Dec 3, 2019 10:17 pm

Wingy wrote:
mtron32 wrote:
jump wrote:

I don't know what game you watched, but I saw Wendell grab 10 tough rebounds. He made a couple of flubs near the end, but otherwise had a good game.


Lauri was also putting effort on the boards again. Maybe someone fed him a ribeye and some mashed taters but he finally had energy.


I was curious how Lauri looked other than shooting better since that comes and goes. His stat line is a bit McDermotty with no blocks/steals, and only 1 assist. Stats don’t always tell the full story of course.


I've been looking for effort from him the last month, so anything he gives me that looks like he cares I pay attention. Fighting for rebounds, going after loose balls, general hustle is what he needs to do especially if the shot isn't falling. Lately he tends to just mope the entire game if his 3 ball is bricking, we can't have that.
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Re: Post Game: Bulls Win, Lauri shows signs of life 

Post#113 » by PaKii94 » Tue Dec 3, 2019 10:48 pm

johnnyvann840 wrote:
NWIBullsFan wrote:
HomoSapien wrote:
Hield is a solid player in his own right, but seems hard to criticize Zach for being lit up for 26 in a win and not Hield for giving up 28 to Zach in a loss to a bad team.


Zach scored 28 on 13 FGA, an .805 TS% with 3 ast, 2 to
Heild scored 26 on 21 FGA, a .550 TS% with 4 ast, 1 to

In no way was Zach outplayed by Heild on offense, it's not even close.

To your point yes, if anyone got 'lit up' in this game, it's Heild.


The Bulls entire starting lineup got lit up. The Bulls bench kicked the crap out of whoever was on the floor for Sacto in the game. Bulls starters were -4 (Lavine),-5 (Lauri),-6 (Sato),-3 (WCJ), -7 (Dunn).. Bench was +13 (Coby), +12 (Thad), +10 (Gafford), +15 (Valentine), +10 (Arci)


Sadly that's been the trend for most games :-?
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Re: Post Game: Bulls Win, Lauri shows signs of life 

Post#114 » by RedBulls23 » Tue Dec 3, 2019 10:50 pm

DuckIII wrote:
dougthonus wrote:I am at the point where I'm rooting for losses and tanking would prefer they didn't beat one of the teams they're competing with for those worst spots.


I’m so disillusioned that I skipped the “wanting to tank” phase. I went from curious optimism straight to pure apathy.

It pointless getting so caught up in wanting them to lose every game with these new odds anyways.
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Re: Post Game: Bulls Win, Lauri shows signs of life 

Post#115 » by ZOMG » Tue Dec 3, 2019 11:46 pm

dougthonus wrote:
ZOMG wrote:It's not enough to have an athletic rim protector at the 5. If it was, Gafford would play 30+ mins per game. The 5 also needs to be able to shoot enough to form a threat on the other side of the ball. Unfortunately, that's another part of Wendell's inadequacy.

The Bulls are operating as usual - first they pick the wrong guy and then they play him a ton of minutes, hoping he'll magically turn into the right guy. Carter and Coby are both examples of this M.O.


Who was the right guy to pick instead of Carter and Coby? Carter is more than capable as a 5 defender IMO. He has a very positive impact on our defense, he probably can't get out there and guard Curry well on a switch, but he can defend 4s and 5s well and protects the paint which is also still critical in today's day and age.

The problem with Carter is upside. He's got upside of a good player (and that seems really obvious already) but not a great player. That's probably fine at #7 overall.

The problem with Coby is just weak draft class. In theory, if Coby works out he's a two way guard who can shoot, drive, create, defend, etc... The problem is he's just not an athletic freak and doesn't have great length, but that just comes down to weak class of players, his skillset and type of player is the perfect fit for most multiple ball handler type offenses if his skillset translated (I don't think it will). The alternative was to gamble on different players with different major weaknesses.


If you prefer Coby to people like Tyler Herro, Jaxson Hayes, PJ Washington, even Hachimura... I don't know what to tell you. White definitely wasn't BPA.
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Re: Post Game: Bulls Win, Lauri shows signs of life 

Post#116 » by dougthonus » Tue Dec 3, 2019 11:58 pm

RedBulls23 wrote:
DuckIII wrote:
dougthonus wrote:I am at the point where I'm rooting for losses and tanking would prefer they didn't beat one of the teams they're competing with for those worst spots.


I’m so disillusioned that I skipped the “wanting to tank” phase. I went from curious optimism straight to pure apathy.

It pointless getting so caught up in wanting them to lose every game with these new odds anyways.


I'm certainly not beside myself that they don't lose, but given a choice, I would rather land in the bottom 3 than at 7.
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Re: Post Game: Bulls Win, Lauri shows signs of life 

Post#117 » by SfBull » Wed Dec 4, 2019 12:31 am

MrSparkle wrote:I hate our “pillar” bigs.

Hate the pairing.

Wendell and Lauri are simply pathetic rebounders and shotblockers. Between the two of them: 17 and 0.

And that’s also their season average, plus 1.3 blocks a game.

This is the softest big line-up in the NBA. For whatever IQ and muscle he has, Wendell’s slow as molasses, has no vertical burst, limited height for his position, and mediocre hands.

I feel like Kanter would be an upgrade.

Porzingis looks like Mutombo compared to these guys.

I don't think this will be our frontcourt for the future, we'll end up picking bigs next drafts or by trade, perhaps we'll keep Wendell but Lauri, he's only starting for the Bulls by default, Young didn't play for being a starter and Kornet is only a backup .Lauri will keep playing good games against bad teams and disappearing against stronger ones.But our FO abd coach really love him so that's it for some time .
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Re: Post Game: Bulls Win, Lauri shows signs of life 

Post#118 » by mtron32 » Wed Dec 4, 2019 12:57 am

I'm watching the Raps Heat game right now and Marc Gasol sets moving screens all day, no whistle. So why is it that my man WCJ cant't even sneeze without getting the refs on his azz?
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Re: Post Game: Bulls Win, Lauri shows signs of life 

Post#119 » by SfBull » Wed Dec 4, 2019 1:00 am

johnnyvann840 wrote:
dice wrote:
bearadonisdna wrote:
Before tonights game, zach is 4th in points and 6th in ppg in the conference.
Thats practically allstar credentials.

similar to last season, when he didn't sniff all-star consideration. his team is once again bad, as is his defense. it's telling that you post this after a great scoring night for him in which he was arguably outplayed by his counterpart buddy hield


Zach's problem has never been scoring or putting up good raw counting stats. He's even been fairly efficient for most of his career. His problem is and remains that he doesn't make anybody around him better and he is terrible under pressure and in the clutch. These are still problems and likely will always be problems.

This win was a win that should have been expected. They beat a sub .500 team missing their two best players in Fox and Bagley. They still almost gave it away at the end which was pretty unbelievable. This team is still hot garbage.

Like Stacey King said, the Bulls don't have a such thing as a game they "should win" anymore. The next two games are as close as you can get to that though. Memphis and Golden State both at home. Win those two and the team is 9-14 and back on a 31 win pace.... woohooo. December is a month they "should" win more than half their games. They could wind up being close to .500 coming into the new year.

Like you I can't be happy with that kind of win ,it's more of the same, we're beating no playoff caliber teams , it's an improvement from last season but not really something for raving about.
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Re: Post Game: Bulls Win, Lauri shows signs of life 

Post#120 » by DJhitek » Wed Dec 4, 2019 1:04 am

Good win because Lauri and LaVine were huge parts of it. Baby steps.

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