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2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick #7 (probably)

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick #7 (probably) 

Post#1201 » by wonderboy2 » Sat May 23, 2020 5:01 pm

The Box Office wrote:If we luck into the Top 4 picks then that means that LaMelo is in play depending on which team is ahead of us.

I'm VERY sure that Coby White will not become the facilitator/distributor. As in a guy consistently averaging 7 assists per game. That's simply not his game. Right now, to me, White is a shot jacking ball hog. He comes in the game and panics looking for his own shot. I definitely wouldn't pass him the ball if I was his teammate. His 2.7 rookie assists average is putrid. He actually has no business being the point guard. His shot jacking ball hoggin' ways is bench player status. He wants the ball back? He better get steals and rebounds.

I'm not comparing. This is just reference. John Stockton was a bench guy during his rookie year. And he managed to average 5.1 assists anyway. If White was averaging 4 assists per game, from the bench, then I wouldn't have said anything because that's a great sign for Coby to become this team's play maker.

If we luck into LaMelo/Killian/Haliburton (especially LaMelo), take him regardless of Coby and Zach LaVine's status. This draft is guard heavy. The Basketball Gods are trying to tell us something with that.

We do not have a reliable facilitator. Our front court sucks, too.

It comes down to new management's opinion on BPA when we draft. I draft the guard with crazy court vision. Always. Those types are hard to land. Disagree? Try finding a Stockton, Kidd, Mark Jackson, Magic, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Westbrook, Rondo, Nash, Penny, Luka, Isiah Thomas, Trae, and hell, even Rod Strickland. It's difficult.

We can always land a big. However, a big with guard skills and defense? That's when I choose the big over the guard.

LaMelo is a great fit. His passing is crazy sick. It's actually really extraordinary. He's demonstrating passes that no one else in this draft class AND last year's draft class can do. The interesting thing about LaMelo is he's also a natural scorer (despite his shooting), but he rather pass the ball and see his teammates happy. He can put on 30+ points if he wanted. He's also pretty good at tapping out rebounds to keep the offense alive, which is unique, too.

His defense? Yes, he needs to work on it. Comes down to effort.
Injuries? That's unpredictable as hell and I don't want to speculate. All players go through this.

I can tell you did not watch a bulls game this year or do not understand basketball well. White has a lot to learn but he’s definitely not a ball hog. You actually just described somebody like Antonio Blankley. He actually tried to run an offense. But he fell into the same problem that Lavine had. Most of the time he played with guys like Sato who sucked ass at getting there own shot and was scared as hell to shoot. White started to come on at the end of the season before everything was canceled. He might not ever be an elite passer but he was starting to distribute the ball pretty well at the end of the season. Bulls don’t need a pass first point guard. There’s hardly any of those starting in the NBA right now anyway.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick #7 (probably) 

Post#1202 » by Southpaw » Sat May 23, 2020 5:12 pm

Little Nathan wrote:
Southpaw wrote:What's Okongwu's game like? Is he a prototype big or can he be a playmaker?


I think there is definitely some hope that Okongwu can become a playmaker in certain situations (like Bam Adebayo for the Heat). He doesn't move like a typical big, knows when and where to pass the ball and I just generally like his feel for the game. He's very versatile and smart on both offense and defense, which is why would take him over Wiseman 10 times out of 10. Wiseman will be productive because of his combination of size and athleticism alone- and that will always have value, no doubt - but I question his ability to become more than a rim runner/protector.

Thanks! A Bam type of player would be a huge boon for the Bulls because we need all the defense and play making we can get.


I kinda hope we'd hit a soft rebuild by trading our core for future picks in the next 2-3 drafts.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick #7 (probably) 

Post#1203 » by The Box Office » Sat May 23, 2020 5:52 pm

wonderboy2 wrote:
The Box Office wrote:If we luck into the Top 4 picks then that means that LaMelo is in play depending on which team is ahead of us.

I'm VERY sure that Coby White will not become the facilitator/distributor. As in a guy consistently averaging 7 assists per game. That's simply not his game. Right now, to me, White is a shot jacking ball hog. He comes in the game and panics looking for his own shot. I definitely wouldn't pass him the ball if I was his teammate. His 2.7 rookie assists average is putrid. He actually has no business being the point guard. His shot jacking ball hoggin' ways is bench player status. He wants the ball back? He better get steals and rebounds.

I'm not comparing. This is just reference. John Stockton was a bench guy during his rookie year. And he managed to average 5.1 assists anyway. If White was averaging 4 assists per game, from the bench, then I wouldn't have said anything because that's a great sign for Coby to become this team's play maker.

If we luck into LaMelo/Killian/Haliburton (especially LaMelo), take him regardless of Coby and Zach LaVine's status. This draft is guard heavy. The Basketball Gods are trying to tell us something with that.

We do not have a reliable facilitator. Our front court sucks, too.

It comes down to new management's opinion on BPA when we draft. I draft the guard with crazy court vision. Always. Those types are hard to land. Disagree? Try finding a Stockton, Kidd, Mark Jackson, Magic, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Westbrook, Rondo, Nash, Penny, Luka, Isiah Thomas, Trae, and hell, even Rod Strickland. It's difficult.

We can always land a big. However, a big with guard skills and defense? That's when I choose the big over the guard.

LaMelo is a great fit. His passing is crazy sick. It's actually really extraordinary. He's demonstrating passes that no one else in this draft class AND last year's draft class can do. The interesting thing about LaMelo is he's also a natural scorer (despite his shooting), but he rather pass the ball and see his teammates happy. He can put on 30+ points if he wanted. He's also pretty good at tapping out rebounds to keep the offense alive, which is unique, too.

His defense? Yes, he needs to work on it. Comes down to effort.
Injuries? That's unpredictable as hell and I don't want to speculate. All players go through this.

I can tell you did not watch a bulls game this year or do not understand basketball well. White has a lot to learn but he’s definitely not a ball hog. You actually just described somebody like Antonio Blankley. He actually tried to run an offense. But he fell into the same problem that Lavine had. Most of the time he played with guys like Sato who sucked ass at getting there own shot and was scared as hell to shoot. White started to come on at the end of the season before everything was canceled. He might not ever be an elite passer but he was starting to distribute the ball pretty well at the end of the season. Bulls don’t need a pass first point guard. There’s hardly any of those starting in the NBA right now anyway.


Whoa. Calm down with the assumptions and insult. No need for that.

I don't know why you brought up a nobody Antonio Blankley. Coby White can't pass. He's a ball hog. 2.7 assists average for the season and terrible stretches where he didn't look like he shouldn't be playing. He had a cute stretch where he got hot though. His last 5 games were ok. Those last 5 games doesn't erase the previous 60 games though.

There were plenty of games where White went 1-6, 1-6, 3-12, 1-8, 2-8, 0-7 and got 0-3 assists. You don't believe me? Here is the link to his game logs: https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/whiteco01/gamelog/2020/

That's a ball hog to me. He's not a point guard. Simple as that. I played with plenty of those guys in real life. I usually don't pass them the ball or try not to be on their teams.

That 3 game 30 point stretch is good, but nothing amazing. He only averaged 2 assists during that stretch. Again, ball hog. Just shooting for buckets. That's not a point guard. That's a microwave Sixth Man.

How did LaMelo Ball, playing with the absolute worst NBL team, average 7 assists per game? And he got buckets at the same time. Here is his game log: https://basketball.realgm.com/player/LaMelo-Ball/GameLogs/103892 Look at that. LaMelo still got major production when he was the opposing team's focal point. Ball gave them the business regardless.

Bulls don't need a pass first point guard? That's according to you. Don't worry. Coby White is not going anywhere. He has little trade value. If I was Wendell, Porter, or Lauri, I would rather play with a point guard who knows how to get me the ball. Instead of looking for his.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick #7 (probably) 

Post#1204 » by Jcool0 » Sat May 23, 2020 6:18 pm

The Box Office wrote:
Whoa. Calm down with the assumptions and insult. No need for that.

I don't know why you brought up a nobody Antonio Blankley. Coby White can't pass. He's a ball hog. 2.7 assists average for the season and terrible stretches where he didn't look like he shouldn't be playing. He had a cute stretch where he got hot though. His last 5 games were ok. Those last 5 games doesn't erase the previous 60 games though.

There were plenty of games where White went 1-6, 1-6, 3-12, 1-8, 2-8, 0-7 and got 0-3 assists. You don't believe me? Here is the link to his game logs: https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/whiteco01/gamelog/2020/

That's a ball hog to me. He's not a point guard. Simple as that. I played with plenty of those guys in real life. I usually don't pass them the ball or try not to be on their teams.

That 3 game 30 point stretch is good, but nothing amazing. He only averaged 2 assists during that stretch. Again, ball hog. Just shooting for buckets. That's not a point guard. That's a microwave Sixth Man.

How did LaMelo Ball, playing with the absolute worst NBL team, average 7 assists per game? And he got buckets at the same time. Here is his game log: https://basketball.realgm.com/player/LaMelo-Ball/GameLogs/103892 Look at that. LaMelo still got major production when he was the opposing team's focal point. Ball gave them the business regardless.

Bulls don't need a pass first point guard? That's according to you. Don't worry. Coby White is not going anywhere. He has little trade value. If I was Wendell, Porter, or Lauri, I would rather play with a point guard who knows how to get me the ball. Instead of looking for his.


FWIW over the last 10 games Cody White averaged 24 points per game, 3.8 rebounds and 4.5 assists. Not amazing but that is good for a rookie combo guard.

Ball was terrible for NBL at pretty much everything other then passing. He averaged 17 points on 16.7 shots. He shot 25% from 3 on almost 7 attempts a game. Ball made just 51 percent of his shots around the basket, which was nine percent below the NBL league average. He made just 36 percent of his shots in the midrange, and shot about 10 percent worse than league average from above the break. Hawks were only two points better per 100 possessions when he was on the floor offensively, and they were under one point of difference defensively. Even in the minutes when Ball was on the floor, the Hawks still only had a 113.2 offensive rating, a number that still would be worst in the league by about four points per 100 possessions (the NBL tends to be a higher scoring league on a per possession basis than the NBA). Overall, in the games Ball played, Illawarra had a -9.8 net rating.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick #7 (probably) 

Post#1205 » by ChiSox » Sat May 23, 2020 6:50 pm

I disagree with the statement of Coby being a ball hog. His role on the team was to look for his shot. He is one of two players on the team who can consistently get his own shot. Coby isn’t a finished product but he definitely is a future above average starter. Placing him with a good playmaker would be a step in the right direction.

Ball is really good at passing but I don’t want a bad defense, shorter, less athletic Ben Simmons. 4 against 5 on offense is not good in this era.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick #7 (probably) 

Post#1206 » by VolumePoster » Sat May 23, 2020 6:54 pm

It's pretty clear why we can't get a handle on White. The first few games of the season and the most recent two months (March being only 5 games!), he played like a young star. In the middle there was a lot of awful. It's hard to know exactly what he is, because he was two different things over the course of the season...and then Covid happened.

He's not a point guard, but to say he "can't pass" is overstated. It's a developing skill but he's had moments of vision and creativity.
He's also a willing passer.

I'm betting on White. His mentality and drive is excellent. I'd love to see him play with Hayes or Haliburton.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick #7 (probably) 

Post#1207 » by Jcool0 » Sat May 23, 2020 7:07 pm

I still think all signs point to Deni Avdija if he is around in the 5-7 range.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick #7 (probably) 

Post#1208 » by TheFinishSniper » Sat May 23, 2020 7:09 pm

Jcool0 wrote:I still think all signs point to Deni Avdija if he is around in the 5-7 range.

He is going top 4.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick #7 (probably) 

Post#1209 » by Jcool0 » Sat May 23, 2020 8:09 pm

TheFinishSniper wrote:
Jcool0 wrote:I still think all signs point to Deni Avdija if he is around in the 5-7 range.

He is going top 4.


Most likely.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick #7 (probably) 

Post#1210 » by TheSuzerain » Sat May 23, 2020 10:23 pm

Why the hell would you draft Deni Avdija top 4?
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick #7 (probably) 

Post#1211 » by GimmeDat » Sun May 24, 2020 1:03 am

The Box Office wrote:
GimmeDat wrote:
othawhitemeat wrote:
I think players rise up. He shot freaking 50% from three in a tough league on several attempts, high iq, solid d, and above average athleticism. I know peeps think he is a reach, but if he was on a Duke, etc... he would be a top 5 pick.


When I first saw him, I thought jeez, this guy is an insane shooter, but he also looks more well rounded than that - good athletic body, etc... but I think the more I watched him, the more I realized he isn't very good as a finisher, his athleticism isn't that functional, and his D is pretty average. He can also barely dribble.

But I get what you're seeing, and I do like him, probably higher than the generally draft consensus on him.


Is this true? If it is, Nesmith has no business being selected Top 10 in any draft. He can't break down defenders one on one reliably?

That's mid first round talent. According to the Ringer and Tankathon (as of this writing), Nesmith is ranked #15. That's where he should be.


Yeah he's more of an off-ball guy. An exceptional off-ball guy, though.

He reminds me of Allen Crabbe, personally.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick #7 (probably) 

Post#1212 » by TheFinishSniper » Sun May 24, 2020 5:04 am

TheSuzerain wrote:Why the hell would you draft Deni Avdija top 4?

This draft is weak on high end talent. College season short. Not much star or elite athletes in draft. And he posses unique size and skillset from talent perspective.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick #7 (probably) 

Post#1213 » by PrimzyBulls81 » Sun May 24, 2020 8:31 am

I want and I expect new coach will want veteran PG on this team to be the leader and they will seek it thru FA or trade. No more rookies on the PG spot. Coby maybe will grow into one solid PG, but he is still few years away.
Bulls need to go after someone in SF/PF/C spot. Vet PG, White, Dunn - PG combo.. White can play of course some SG min too.
Trade Sato and Arci, if Dunn not re-signed, keep Arci.

there will be some solid PG options in FA :
Van Fleet - obvious starter and big add for this team, Dragic, Rondo, Teague
OR JUST GO INTO TRADE,we have enough pieces to move, maybe even this draft pick.. we need to start winning,not go into soft rebuilds again! AK and Eversley both said it, WINNING :nod: :nod: :nod:
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick #7 (probably) 

Post#1214 » by youngWizzy » Sun May 24, 2020 9:51 pm

Hey guys, I just added a new feature to my site that let's you compare two prospects side by side here: https://nbadraftcomp.herokuapp.com/compare

Probably one of the cooler tools I've added.

I also added age as a method for comparing players for per40 and advanced stats which a lot of you requested! You can also choose to add manual measurements on the site as well as pick and choose which measurements you would like to compare physical measurements for players. Also similarity scores for comparisons are on the site as well!

If you don't mind checking it out that'd be amazing!!!!

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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick #7 (probably) 

Post#1215 » by PaKii94 » Mon May 25, 2020 1:30 am

youngWizzy wrote:Hey guys, I just added a new feature to my site that let's you compare two prospects side by side here: https://nbadraftcomp.herokuapp.com/compare

Probably one of the cooler tools I've added.

I also added age as a method for comparing players for per40 and advanced stats which a lot of you requested! You can also choose to add manual measurements on the site as well as pick and choose which measurements you would like to compare physical measurements for players. Also similarity scores for comparisons are on the site as well!

If you don't mind checking it out that'd be amazing!!!!

Image


Looks neat man thanks. Anyway you can put filtering out specific games or look at a range of games?
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick #7 (probably) 

Post#1216 » by Dresden » Mon May 25, 2020 3:00 am

wonderboy2 wrote:
The Box Office wrote:If we luck into the Top 4 picks then that means that LaMelo is in play depending on which team is ahead of us.

I'm VERY sure that Coby White will not become the facilitator/distributor. As in a guy consistently averaging 7 assists per game. That's simply not his game. Right now, to me, White is a shot jacking ball hog. He comes in the game and panics looking for his own shot. I definitely wouldn't pass him the ball if I was his teammate. His 2.7 rookie assists average is putrid. He actually has no business being the point guard. His shot jacking ball hoggin' ways is bench player status. He wants the ball back? He better get steals and rebounds.

I'm not comparing. This is just reference. John Stockton was a bench guy during his rookie year. And he managed to average 5.1 assists anyway. If White was averaging 4 assists per game, from the bench, then I wouldn't have said anything because that's a great sign for Coby to become this team's play maker.

If we luck into LaMelo/Killian/Haliburton (especially LaMelo), take him regardless of Coby and Zach LaVine's status. This draft is guard heavy. The Basketball Gods are trying to tell us something with that.

We do not have a reliable facilitator. Our front court sucks, too.

It comes down to new management's opinion on BPA when we draft. I draft the guard with crazy court vision. Always. Those types are hard to land. Disagree? Try finding a Stockton, Kidd, Mark Jackson, Magic, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Westbrook, Rondo, Nash, Penny, Luka, Isiah Thomas, Trae, and hell, even Rod Strickland. It's difficult.

We can always land a big. However, a big with guard skills and defense? That's when I choose the big over the guard.

LaMelo is a great fit. His passing is crazy sick. It's actually really extraordinary. He's demonstrating passes that no one else in this draft class AND last year's draft class can do. The interesting thing about LaMelo is he's also a natural scorer (despite his shooting), but he rather pass the ball and see his teammates happy. He can put on 30+ points if he wanted. He's also pretty good at tapping out rebounds to keep the offense alive, which is unique, too.

His defense? Yes, he needs to work on it. Comes down to effort.
Injuries? That's unpredictable as hell and I don't want to speculate. All players go through this.

I can tell you did not watch a bulls game this year or do not understand basketball well. White has a lot to learn but he’s definitely not a ball hog. You actually just described somebody like Antonio Blankley. He actually tried to run an offense. But he fell into the same problem that Lavine had. Most of the time he played with guys like Sato who sucked ass at getting there own shot and was scared as hell to shoot. White started to come on at the end of the season before everything was canceled. He might not ever be an elite passer but he was starting to distribute the ball pretty well at the end of the season. Bulls don’t need a pass first point guard. There’s hardly any of those starting in the NBA right now anyway.


I agree- the pg who is primarily a distributor is a dying breed in the nba. You don't need to average 7 assists a game. Derick Rose only did that twice in his career. His career average is 5.6. Coby could definitely do that.

Not that I would frown upon having a great passer at pg, but I think a bigger need are guys who can make shots, and create for themselves.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick #7 (probably) 

Post#1217 » by StunnerKO » Mon May 25, 2020 4:37 pm

Man just thinking about the 06 draft , if we took Roy we prob beat the Pistons in the semis. That 06-07 Bulls were crazy good outta nowhere


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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick #7 (probably) 

Post#1218 » by TheSuzerain » Mon May 25, 2020 5:30 pm

Dresden wrote:
wonderboy2 wrote:
The Box Office wrote:If we luck into the Top 4 picks then that means that LaMelo is in play depending on which team is ahead of us.

I'm VERY sure that Coby White will not become the facilitator/distributor. As in a guy consistently averaging 7 assists per game. That's simply not his game. Right now, to me, White is a shot jacking ball hog. He comes in the game and panics looking for his own shot. I definitely wouldn't pass him the ball if I was his teammate. His 2.7 rookie assists average is putrid. He actually has no business being the point guard. His shot jacking ball hoggin' ways is bench player status. He wants the ball back? He better get steals and rebounds.

I'm not comparing. This is just reference. John Stockton was a bench guy during his rookie year. And he managed to average 5.1 assists anyway. If White was averaging 4 assists per game, from the bench, then I wouldn't have said anything because that's a great sign for Coby to become this team's play maker.

If we luck into LaMelo/Killian/Haliburton (especially LaMelo), take him regardless of Coby and Zach LaVine's status. This draft is guard heavy. The Basketball Gods are trying to tell us something with that.

We do not have a reliable facilitator. Our front court sucks, too.

It comes down to new management's opinion on BPA when we draft. I draft the guard with crazy court vision. Always. Those types are hard to land. Disagree? Try finding a Stockton, Kidd, Mark Jackson, Magic, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Westbrook, Rondo, Nash, Penny, Luka, Isiah Thomas, Trae, and hell, even Rod Strickland. It's difficult.

We can always land a big. However, a big with guard skills and defense? That's when I choose the big over the guard.

LaMelo is a great fit. His passing is crazy sick. It's actually really extraordinary. He's demonstrating passes that no one else in this draft class AND last year's draft class can do. The interesting thing about LaMelo is he's also a natural scorer (despite his shooting), but he rather pass the ball and see his teammates happy. He can put on 30+ points if he wanted. He's also pretty good at tapping out rebounds to keep the offense alive, which is unique, too.

His defense? Yes, he needs to work on it. Comes down to effort.
Injuries? That's unpredictable as hell and I don't want to speculate. All players go through this.

I can tell you did not watch a bulls game this year or do not understand basketball well. White has a lot to learn but he’s definitely not a ball hog. You actually just described somebody like Antonio Blankley. He actually tried to run an offense. But he fell into the same problem that Lavine had. Most of the time he played with guys like Sato who sucked ass at getting there own shot and was scared as hell to shoot. White started to come on at the end of the season before everything was canceled. He might not ever be an elite passer but he was starting to distribute the ball pretty well at the end of the season. Bulls don’t need a pass first point guard. There’s hardly any of those starting in the NBA right now anyway.


I agree- the pg who is primarily a distributor is a dying breed in the nba. You don't need to average 7 assists a game. Derick Rose only did that twice in his career. His career average is 5.6. Coby could definitely do that.

Not that I would frown upon having a great passer at pg, but I think a bigger need are guys who can make shots, and create for themselves.

To have an elite offense, you either need a HOF caliber guy to just build around, or you need to be able to play elite team offense.

It’s kind of perplexing how GarPax were definitely trying to build a team offense, yet they filled the roster with below average passers at every spot other than WCJ maybe. And by perplexing, I mean idiotic.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick #7 (probably) 

Post#1219 » by Dresden » Mon May 25, 2020 6:44 pm

TheSuzerain wrote:
Dresden wrote:
wonderboy2 wrote:I can tell you did not watch a bulls game this year or do not understand basketball well. White has a lot to learn but he’s definitely not a ball hog. You actually just described somebody like Antonio Blankley. He actually tried to run an offense. But he fell into the same problem that Lavine had. Most of the time he played with guys like Sato who sucked ass at getting there own shot and was scared as hell to shoot. White started to come on at the end of the season before everything was canceled. He might not ever be an elite passer but he was starting to distribute the ball pretty well at the end of the season. Bulls don’t need a pass first point guard. There’s hardly any of those starting in the NBA right now anyway.


I agree- the pg who is primarily a distributor is a dying breed in the nba. You don't need to average 7 assists a game. Derick Rose only did that twice in his career. His career average is 5.6. Coby could definitely do that.

Not that I would frown upon having a great passer at pg, but I think a bigger need are guys who can make shots, and create for themselves.

To have an elite offense, you either need a HOF caliber guy to just build around, or you need to be able to play elite team offense.

It’s kind of perplexing how GarPax were definitely trying to build a team offense, yet they filled the roster with below average passers at every spot other than WCJ maybe. And by perplexing, I mean idiotic.


Wrong.

Bulls may not have an elite playmaker, but they don't just have a bunch of below average passers:

Arci
Dunn
Sato
Denzel
Coby
Hutch
Wendell

All are at least average passers for their positions. Some are good- Arci, Sato, Denzel.
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Re: 2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick #7 (probably) 

Post#1220 » by StunnerKO » Mon May 25, 2020 7:44 pm

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