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Lavine is....

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Lavine is...

1-a budding 1st option who we must keep
11
7%
2-a soon-to-be All Star who can be a #2 on a contender, and worth keeping
70
44%
3-A solid 3rd option/elite 6th man worth keeping
28
18%
4-A bum we should trade immediately
5
3%
5-a solid, yet flawed player who we should trade while his value is high
38
24%
6-I miss DRose and MJ (other)
6
4%
 
Total votes: 158

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Re: Lavine is.... 

Post#181 » by MrSparkle » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:05 am

If LaVine is still scoring 20+ ppg and the team is moving in a positive direction, both in terms of wins but visually showing promise in a system, I think it’s ok to resign him to a max offer even he’s overpaid, cause that’s what you do with prime guys who score 23-26 ppg.

If he’s getting numbers but win % is still under .350, and the team looks like in-cohesive cow dung with Zach being a defensive dud and blackhole, even if Zach scores 30ppg, I’m sure no one is interested in making Zach a max Bull.

I really am having a hard time seeing a middle-ground. I don’t think you’re getting Zach for less than the max. He already took the discount extension. Sure it was a gamble on Chicago’s end with the ACL rehab, but since that money kicked in, all Zach and his agent know are he’s vastly outproduced $19.5m and owed way more.

So IMO it’s pointless considering a scenario where he takes less than the max in unrestricted free agency. Up to AK to decide whether he’s a pillar-piece star or an empty calorie super-scorer. Honestly, I don’t know. Jim Boylen was a very bad coach, and this roster was young and log-jammed at all the wrong positions.

I’m inclined he’ll keep him unless a sweet Overpay offer comes.
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Re: Lavine is.... 

Post#182 » by drosereturn » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:59 am

MrSparkle wrote:If LaVine is still scoring 20+ ppg and the team is moving in a positive direction, both in terms of wins but visually showing promise in a system, I think it’s ok to resign him to a max offer even he’s overpaid, cause that’s what you do with prime guys who score 23-26 ppg.

If he’s getting numbers but win % is still under .350, and the team looks like in-cohesive cow dung with Zach being a defensive dud and blackhole, even if Zach scores 30ppg, I’m sure no one is interested in making Zach a max Bull.

I really am having a hard time seeing a middle-ground. I don’t think you’re getting Zach for less than the max. He already took the discount extension. Sure it was a gamble on Chicago’s end with the ACL rehab, but since that money kicked in, all Zach and his agent know are he’s vastly outproduced $19.5m and owed way more.

So IMO it’s pointless considering a scenario where he takes less than the max in unrestricted free agency. Up to AK to decide whether he’s a pillar-piece star or an empty calorie super-scorer. Honestly, I don’t know. Jim Boylen was a very bad coach, and this roster was young and log-jammed at all the wrong positions.

I’m inclined he’ll keep him unless a sweet Overpay offer comes.


You cant just say hes a max type bc he scores 25 ppg bc thats what Kevin Martin did back in the day and he could only score and shoot just like Lavine. We know how the Harden trade turned out in a few yrs.

And Lavine never took a discount at the time and it was a massive overpay Kings bidded. Its safe to say he wont ever develop playmaking and improve defense in his next contract. Considering that cannot pay max bc thats what most players in that range can do. (See Paul george, Butler, etc.) If you overpay bc theres no one in fa, you end up having Tobias Harris type ugly contract where he never outperforms what hes getting paid. The minimum talent to overpay imo is Brandon Ingram bc he has intriguing size and has fully yet to develop while having those huge wingspan to be the next KD.

Instead of wasting the max on Lavine, I would rather make bids at OG, terrence davis, graham, bol, fox.
Even if Lavine took 20 until his prime, still not buying this team as championship level since he isnt versatile to be a 3rd option.
Basketball is a lot more than just scoring x amt. Which is why the nuggets won with Jokic/Harris scoring with 10pts.
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Re: Lavine is.... 

Post#183 » by Just_Bullz » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:49 am

I think Zach needs to grow 3 feet taller, walk on water, levitate and grow another set of arms to handle the ball in order win the hearts of bulls fans.
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Re: Lavine is.... 

Post#184 » by FriedRise » Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:21 pm

Just_Bullz wrote:I think Zach needs to grow 3 feet taller, walk on water, levitate and grow another set of arms to handle the ball in order win the hearts of bulls fans.


All that and no championships?

What a bum. Trade him!
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Re: Lavine is.... 

Post#185 » by MGB8 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:17 pm

MrSparkle wrote:If LaVine is still scoring 20+ ppg and the team is moving in a positive direction, both in terms of wins but visually showing promise in a system, I think it’s ok to resign him to a max offer even he’s overpaid, cause that’s what you do with prime guys who score 23-26 ppg.

If he’s getting numbers but win % is still under .350, and the team looks like in-cohesive cow dung with Zach being a defensive dud and blackhole, even if Zach scores 30ppg, I’m sure no one is interested in making Zach a max Bull.

I really am having a hard time seeing a middle-ground. I don’t think you’re getting Zach for less than the max. He already took the discount extension. Sure it was a gamble on Chicago’s end with the ACL rehab, but since that money kicked in, all Zach and his agent know are he’s vastly outproduced $19.5m and owed way more.

So IMO it’s pointless considering a scenario where he takes less than the max in unrestricted free agency. Up to AK to decide whether he’s a pillar-piece star or an empty calorie super-scorer. Honestly, I don’t know. Jim Boylen was a very bad coach, and this roster was young and log-jammed at all the wrong positions.

I’m inclined he’ll keep him unless a sweet Overpay offer comes.


I'm not sure that's accurate in terms of max vs. not-max. In part because we haven't seen how the market is going to evolve after COVID and with teams seeing these serious issues in some of the contracts that they are laying out - even high level two way wings like Middleton creating problems with their contracts. I also don't know that in a better offensive scheme that Zach is scoring as much - sacrificing some shots from Zach for more effective and efficient offense overall.

On the bright side, on LaVine development upside - while looking around at contracts by guys to see what folks scoring in the 20's got - what I found was a number of guys who made fairly big jumps around age 25. From age 26 to 27, Jrue Holiday jumped up from a 15-17 ppg guy to a 19-21 ppg guy (along with improved rebounding) - and while some was just a 10% or so increase in minutes - that doesn't account for all of the increase - some was just greater aggression.

Middleton's "final jump" came in his age 26 season. Brogdon, too. A more middling guy, Tim Hardaway Jr., was a meaningfully better player at 27 than he was at 26 (despite an decline in offensive box production). While Jimmy Butler's biggest jump was just prior to his age 25 season, he too another, smaller jump in his age 27 season (and his raw stats for this year don't look great, yet the impact is obvious). And while TJ Warren's jump in box production came in his age 24 season - if what we saw in the bubble was a sign of things to come, then his age 27 season in 2020-21 is going to see a significant leap (and even this past season the overall impact of Warren seemed to be improved).

If Lavine stays the same player he is, then I really can't see a max offer coming along. Maybe near-max, but not quite max. And, honestly, since he's under contract through 21-22, I could see the Bulls trading him *next* offseason if that's where they are at. But if he takes a "final jump" like some of these other players did - he might actually be worth a max deal (though not "out-produce" it a la younger Lebron).
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Re: Lavine is.... 

Post#186 » by FranchisePlayer » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:48 pm

dice wrote:
FranchisePlayer wrote:
Jcool0 wrote:
Since you can predict the future, can i get the winning lottery numbers?


What has predicting the future to do with me agreeing with someone?

and predicting lavine's future team success when he's the team's #1 option is obviously way easier that predicting lotto numbers


Fixed it for you. Better?
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Re: Lavine is.... 

Post#187 » by CBS7 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:16 pm

an all nba 3rd team forward, according to one voter
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Re: Lavine is.... 

Post#188 » by Ice Man » Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:30 pm

Just_Bullz wrote:I think Zach needs to grow 3 feet taller, walk on water, levitate and grow another set of arms to handle the ball in order win the hearts of bulls fans.


Winning basketball games would probably work.
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Re: Lavine is.... 

Post#189 » by jordanwilliams6 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:34 pm

Ice Man wrote:
Just_Bullz wrote:I think Zach needs to grow 3 feet taller, walk on water, levitate and grow another set of arms to handle the ball in order win the hearts of bulls fans.


Winning basketball games would probably work.

Of course winning solves everything, but you need a collective effort to produce wins.

We had the worst coach in the league, the supposed 2nd option regressed significant, key injuries to starters like OPJ & WCJ for significant parts of the season and pretty much our 2nd best player was a rookie point guard.

I’m more than happy to give this squad another offseason to improve with natural development, a new head coach, a new FO and some minor roster tweaks. Give them until the trade deadline, and if we aren’t seeing significant improvement we can then look to make major roster changes.

I really like Zach a lot more than most, and I’m willing to back him in to exceed the expectations of the doubters and become a integral part of a winning team.
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Re: Lavine is.... 

Post#190 » by Ice Man » Wed Sep 16, 2020 11:05 pm

jordanwilliams6 wrote:[I’m more than happy to give this squad another offseason to improve with natural development, a new head coach, a new FO and some minor roster tweaks. Give them until the trade deadline, and if we aren’t seeing significant improvement we can then look to make major roster changes..


I'm OK with that. It's a young group that has been badly handled. Let's see what we really have before making decisions.
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Re: Lavine is.... 

Post#191 » by dice » Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:10 am

CBS7 wrote:an all nba 3rd team forward, according to one voter

who should have his voting privileges revoked and his eyes checked
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Re: Lavine is.... 

Post#192 » by dice » Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:15 am

Ice Man wrote:
Just_Bullz wrote:I think Zach needs to grow 3 feet taller, walk on water, levitate and grow another set of arms to handle the ball in order win the hearts of bulls fans.


Winning basketball games would probably work.

playing defense, reducing dumb passes...
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Re: Lavine is.... 

Post#193 » by drosereturn » Thu Sep 17, 2020 2:51 am

TheJordanRule wrote:
dice wrote:
TheJordanRule wrote:
Dice, I respect your view of Zach. I think you were spot on early about Zach as far as his deficiencies go and you have provided many useful critiques over the years but at this point I think your objectivity may have been compromised, brother.

i have defended him on occasion, so i don't think i'm being non-objective at all

Zach certainly doesn't play great defense but he is a passable defender.

he may indeed have improved to passable...if by passable you still mean below average

Zach scores relatively efficiently on high-volume

yep

and is slowly but surely improving his ability to pass

eh

Basketball IQ was never his strong suit but he has certainly trended up from where he was, and I think it's reasonable to assume that he will continue to grow in this regard.

could be

I don't expect Zach to become a superstar, although he has tons of talent and is still a couple years away from his prime, but Zach is a borderline all-star already

he's not a borderline all-star. few thought he was snubbed in a weak eastern field this season. and most nba players peak at age 25-26. he did not improve offensively this season and it's arguable whether he improved defensively despite being more active with regard to steals and blocks

I'm against moving Zach for anything other than another young borderline all-star. Young iso-scorers who can hit it from deep can contribute to this roster. I know that you don't like that self-centered, team interrupting style, but without iso-scoring you are not going to get the ball in the hoop sometimes when it matters, especially not on a roster that is this sorely lacking in creativity. The goal for this roster should be the playoffs for the simple reason that you can't walk if you haven't learned how to crawl. Jettisoning assets like Zach or Lauri for a draft pick or-- God forbid-- at the price of a JR Smith would probably result in a self inflicted wound. Neither Zach nor Lauri are untouchable-- far from it-- but they still have upside. It's not like either of those guys were busts or have grown too old so we should be above selling low or chasing low percentage plays.

i'm not going to speculate on what the minimum return should be because i'm confident that he's overrated by enough teams that whatever the best offer would be would surely be good enough

i brought it up earlier in the thread, but i speculated last season that i would be willing to deal lavine for rookie #19 pick kevin huerter and the expiring contract of kent bazemore. i proposed it on the hawks board and...it was not received well


You see? This is what I'm talking about brother. I said we cannot jettison assets to sell low or chase low percentage plays. You immediately have us jettisoning assets to sell low and chase low percentage plays :banghead: . And this is in no way to diminish Kevin Huerter. I see the pluses in that kid because he is a decent team first player with a great deep ball, and he's four years younger than Zach, but what has he proven other than that he can be a good seventh or eighth man on an NBA team? His per is at 11, he's a net negative at both ends of the floor, and he couldn't dream of volume scoring to save his life. He's an arguably mild upgrade on defense than Zach, but not an extraordinary defender by any means. Plus, this is a weak draft, and you have us picking up the 19th pick. What is the bust rate for 19th picks, especially ones in weak drafts? The trade you propose would generate public outrage against the front-office yet again, and at this point we can't afford to create that kind of relationship with the public all over again, much less diminish our own assets in the process. The grass is always greener with these younger players because it's easy to daydream about them reaching their ceilings and becoming the next big thing, but in the cold light of reality, those dreams usually end up dashed. Remember back in 2000, when we were sure that we had the next Kevin Garnet and the next Shaq on the same team? How did that turn out?


I really think huerter and 19 was a great deal back and with Lavines value up, would deal for Dedmon, number 6 and Huerter.
I just really like his Klay thompson esque style of not demanding the ball too much and knowing when to shoot.
He is already a better passer, defender than Lavine ever was and is a better shooter probably.
The Bulls lack great shooters and while Lavine is one, he is more likely to make wrong decisions than shoot wide open bc of his bbiq. He fumbles the ball way too much with his clumsy hands esp in clutch situations the Bulls lose 90% of the time bc of him without even making a play.
He always try to do much I would gladly ship him off with pro lavine fans. Huerter needs a change of scenery and the two man game of Lauri and him would be a joy to watch while playing GS style free motion basketball. Huerter smaller Klay, Lauri a 7ft Klay.

In theory, Lavine looks like a much better player but when the Bulls are 4pt worse when hes on the court, he provides the same value as Huerter probably even less if his usage drops to 20. Coupled that with 10 times the difference in salary, thats how the Bulls became the worst team with the highest paid guy not showing up which shows they all need to get removed altogether. The other teams 7-8th man you mentioned is producing similar impact as our number 1 guy.
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Re: Lavine is.... 

Post#194 » by dice » Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:12 am

drosereturn wrote:
MrSparkle wrote:If LaVine is still scoring 20+ ppg and the team is moving in a positive direction, both in terms of wins but visually showing promise in a system, I think it’s ok to resign him to a max offer even he’s overpaid, cause that’s what you do with prime guys who score 23-26 ppg.

If he’s getting numbers but win % is still under .350, and the team looks like in-cohesive cow dung with Zach being a defensive dud and blackhole, even if Zach scores 30ppg, I’m sure no one is interested in making Zach a max Bull.

I really am having a hard time seeing a middle-ground. I don’t think you’re getting Zach for less than the max. He already took the discount extension. Sure it was a gamble on Chicago’s end with the ACL rehab, but since that money kicked in, all Zach and his agent know are he’s vastly outproduced $19.5m and owed way more.

So IMO it’s pointless considering a scenario where he takes less than the max in unrestricted free agency. Up to AK to decide whether he’s a pillar-piece star or an empty calorie super-scorer. Honestly, I don’t know. Jim Boylen was a very bad coach, and this roster was young and log-jammed at all the wrong positions.

I’m inclined he’ll keep him unless a sweet Overpay offer comes.


You cant just say hes a max type bc he scores 25 ppg bc thats what Kevin Martin did back in the day and he could only score and shoot just like Lavine. We know how the Harden trade turned out in a few yrs.

And Lavine never took a discount at the time and it was a massive overpay Kings bidded. Its safe to say he wont ever develop playmaking and improve defense in his next contract. Considering that cannot pay max bc thats what most players in that range can do. (See Paul george, Butler, etc.) If you overpay bc theres no one in fa, you end up having Tobias Harris type ugly contract where he never outperforms what hes getting paid. The minimum talent to overpay imo is Brandon Ingram bc he has intriguing size and has fully yet to develop while having those huge wingspan to be the next KD.

Instead of wasting the max on Lavine, I would rather make bids at OG, terrence davis, graham, bol, fox.
Even if Lavine took 20 until his prime, still not buying this team as championship level since he isnt versatile to be a 3rd option.
Basketball is a lot more than just scoring x amt. Which is why the nuggets won with Jokic/Harris scoring with 10pts.

devin booker last season averaged 27/4/7 on 58%ts, then signed for the 25% rookie max extension prior to this season. he turned 24 at the beginning of the season

lavine will be 2.6 years older at the start of his next contract. he averaged 26/5/4 on 57% ts w/ marginally better defense

i would project that the market value on lavine at contract time will be slightly less than it was for booker when he signed based on age. but it's also probably likely that booker's true market value was a bit more than 25%

lavine can sign a 3 yr/76 mil extension THIS offseason that would make him a free agent in 2025. that would be a deal starting at only 21.4% of the current cap. and probably less by the time it kicks in. so i would anticipate the bulls offering that and lavine rejecting it. rinse and repeat in 2021. then he will be eligible for a new 30% of cap contract in 2022, but i can't imagine he will get that full amount
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Re: Lavine is.... 

Post#195 » by dice » Thu Sep 17, 2020 3:14 am

general board thread on kings offer to zach:

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1724954

almost universal ridicule. my favorite post: "kings trying to bring home slam dunk championship"

and three different JR smith comps

also multiple mentions that the kings claimed that they passed on doncic because they were set at the wing position, then offered lavine substantially more money to play the wing

post #99 is gold

and then the bulls board thread (2/3 opposed to matching kings offer):

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1724882
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Re: Lavine is.... 

Post#196 » by ZOMG » Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:24 am

jordanwilliams6 wrote:
Ice Man wrote:
Just_Bullz wrote:I think Zach needs to grow 3 feet taller, walk on water, levitate and grow another set of arms to handle the ball in order win the hearts of bulls fans.


Winning basketball games would probably work.

Of course winning solves everything, but you need a collective effort to produce wins.


Wait, I thought it was "Stars bring wins in this league, we need to get a true star in Chicago"...? I've read that like a million times on this very forum.

Which is it? If Max LaVine can't bring wins, what the hell is the point of Max LaVine?
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Re: Lavine is.... 

Post#197 » by Jcool0 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 4:45 am

ZOMG wrote:
jordanwilliams6 wrote:
Ice Man wrote:
Winning basketball games would probably work.

Of course winning solves everything, but you need a collective effort to produce wins.


Wait, I thought it was "Stars bring wins in this league, we need to get a true star in Chicago"...? I've read that like a million times on this very forum.

Which is it? If Max LaVine can't bring wins, what the hell is the point of Max LaVine?


Last i checked LaVine was just one player. Unless you think the Bulls have another star we are unaware of.
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Re: Lavine is.... 

Post#198 » by TheJordanRule » Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:06 am

drosereturn wrote:
TheJordanRule wrote:
dice wrote:i have defended him on occasion, so i don't think i'm being non-objective at all


he may indeed have improved to passable...if by passable you still mean below average


yep


eh


could be


he's not a borderline all-star. few thought he was snubbed in a weak eastern field this season. and most nba players peak at age 25-26. he did not improve offensively this season and it's arguable whether he improved defensively despite being more active with regard to steals and blocks


i'm not going to speculate on what the minimum return should be because i'm confident that he's overrated by enough teams that whatever the best offer would be would surely be good enough

i brought it up earlier in the thread, but i speculated last season that i would be willing to deal lavine for rookie #19 pick kevin huerter and the expiring contract of kent bazemore. i proposed it on the hawks board and...it was not received well


You see? This is what I'm talking about brother. I said we cannot jettison assets to sell low or chase low percentage plays. You immediately have us jettisoning assets to sell low and chase low percentage plays :banghead: . And this is in no way to diminish Kevin Huerter. I see the pluses in that kid because he is a decent team first player with a great deep ball, and he's four years younger than Zach, but what has he proven other than that he can be a good seventh or eighth man on an NBA team? His per is at 11, he's a net negative at both ends of the floor, and he couldn't dream of volume scoring to save his life. He's an arguably mild upgrade on defense than Zach, but not an extraordinary defender by any means. Plus, this is a weak draft, and you have us picking up the 19th pick. What is the bust rate for 19th picks, especially ones in weak drafts? The trade you propose would generate public outrage against the front-office yet again, and at this point we can't afford to create that kind of relationship with the public all over again, much less diminish our own assets in the process. The grass is always greener with these younger players because it's easy to daydream about them reaching their ceilings and becoming the next big thing, but in the cold light of reality, those dreams usually end up dashed. Remember back in 2000, when we were sure that we had the next Kevin Garnet and the next Shaq on the same team? How did that turn out?


I really think huerter and 19 was a great deal back and with Lavines value up, would deal for Dedmon, number 6 and Huerter. I just really like his Klay thompson esque style of not demanding the ball too much and knowing when to shoot.
He is already a better passer, defender than Lavine ever was and is a better shooter probably.
The Bulls lack great shooters and while Lavine is one, he is more likely to make wrong decisions than shoot wide open bc of his bbiq. He fumbles the ball way too much with his clumsy hands esp in clutch situations the Bulls lose 90% of the time bc of him without even making a play.
He always try to do much I would gladly ship him off with pro lavine fans. Huerter needs a change of scenery and the two man game of Lauri and him would be a joy to watch while playing GS style free motion basketball. Huerter smaller Klay, Lauri a 7ft Klay.

In theory, Lavine looks like a much better player but when the Bulls are 4pt worse when hes on the court, he provides the same value as Huerter probably even less if his usage drops to 20. Coupled that with 10 times the difference in salary, thats how the Bulls became the worst team with the highest paid guy not showing up which shows they all need to get removed altogether. The other teams 7-8th man you mentioned is producing similar impact as our number 1 guy.

Some quick points:
1. Huerter's play style is more team centric but he has not established himself. Sure, the plus minus stat favors Huerter, but the kid's VORP is basically at zero and any stat metric associated with BPM, including Defensive BPM, has him in negative numbers. I like that Huerter's young, and that his contract is cheap because he is still on his rookie deal, but a package built around him would be selling ourselves way short of Lavine's value. Throwing the sixth pick in definitely makes the deal more palatable, but I am hardly enthralled with this draft class. Are you? Do you believe that any of these guys are a lock for reaching borderline All-Star status?
2. I would rather go with a more proven player along with a lower draft pick because draft picks have a high bust rate, while proven commodities in the NBA rarely bust. Our best trading partners would be teams that are (or are going to be contenders) like the Nets, the Celtics, and the Heat... Teams that would see Zach as the final trading piece linchpin of their championship run, and would be willing to part with proven young talent. For example, would the Heat part with Kendrick Nun and Tyler Herro in a consolidation trade? What about the Celtics, with Jaylen Brown?
3. Respect Zach's value. It's not a coincidence that news articles are coming out speculating that Zach could be swapped for Caris Levert AND a first round pick or two (along with additional impact players in some cases). You are talking about an iso scorer whose VORP is solidly in the positive at 2.4, a guy who just came off a season in which he posted his highest steal and block percentages ever, who hits from deep consistently at 38% and averages 25.5 points per game on 56.8% TS. No, he's not Michael Jordan, but he doesn't have to be to have value. And given that our perpetually pathetic, talent-depleted roster typically sells low, I'm not jumping at the chance to jettison one of our few high-quality assets for a 7th man in Huerter and a low percentage draft pick who in all likelihood will be a bust or subpar starter. Zach has improved each year-- which is saying something considering that our coaches have not ranked amongst the league's elite, to say the least. That fact alone demonstrates a great work ethic. If people don't want to pony up for that, **** 'em. Let's keep Zach then.
4. Our contract situation is just fine given that Lavine only takes up 19.5 million in cap space. Y'all may be tripping if you think he gets a gigantic pay raise given what has happened to the market due to the pandemic. Furthermore, every player aside from Otto, Lavine, Young and Sato makes 7.5 million or less. Most of them make considerably less. If you want to identify deadweight in cap space, why don't you think about 28 million that Otto is gonna get this year, or the 13 million per season that we are paying Young, or the 10 million per season that Sato is entitled to? I would rather outright dump Young or Sato than take a ridiculously low ball offer for one of our most productive assets.
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TheJordanRule
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Re: Lavine is.... 

Post#199 » by TheJordanRule » Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:11 am

dice wrote:general board thread on kings offer to zach:

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1724954

almost universal ridicule. my favorite post: "kings trying to bring home slam dunk championship"

and three different JR smith comps

also multiple mentions that the kings claimed that they passed on doncic because they were set at the wing position, then offered lavine substantially more money to play the wing

post #99 is gold

and then the bulls board thread (2/3 opposed to matching kings offer):

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1724882


Dice, this is two years ago, when Zach's value was at an all-time low, back when our front office gambled on Zach after an ACL-injury and right after a season in which Zach was still in recovery mode and out of a lot of games. I thought the FO was crazy back then, too. Two healthy, productive seasons later, Zach's value is nowhere close to where it used to be.
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Re: Lavine is.... 

Post#200 » by TheJordanRule » Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:15 am

ZOMG wrote:
jordanwilliams6 wrote:
Ice Man wrote:
Winning basketball games would probably work.

Of course winning solves everything, but you need a collective effort to produce wins.


Wait, I thought it was "Stars bring wins in this league, we need to get a true star in Chicago"...? I've read that like a million times on this very forum.

Which is it? If Max LaVine can't bring wins, what the hell is the point of Max LaVine?


The typical illogical "rationale" makes another great appearance... If so-and-so isn't a superstar, why have him on the roster at all?Gee, Idk. :banghead:

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