Image ImageImage Image

Do the Bulls have the worst starting pointguard in the division?

Moderators: HomoSapien, RedBulls23, Michael Jackson, GimmeDat, Payt10, dougthonus, kulaz3000, Tommy Udo 6 , coldfish, Ice Man, DASMACKDOWN, fleet, AshyLarrysDiaper

User avatar
bearadonisdna
RealGM
Posts: 13,717
And1: 2,575
Joined: Jul 07, 2012

Do the Bulls have the worst starting pointguard in the division? 

Post#1 » by bearadonisdna » Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:03 am

For the sake of discussion i think its very close.
Miluwaukee - Holiday
pacers - brogdan
cavs - sexton
Pistons - #1 overall pick cade cunninghan
Bulls-

in a vacuum i think i take every one of those guys before our projected starter.
Even so, i would prefer a sense of urgency, dedication, and elite play as a priority, not a cutler-esque attitude of aww shucks is just fun or whatever. or being too cool or smooth to freaking try hard.
Evil_Headband
Starter
Posts: 2,122
And1: 760
Joined: Feb 25, 2008
   

Re: Do the Bulls have the worst starting pointguard in the division? 

Post#2 » by Evil_Headband » Wed Sep 15, 2021 10:39 am

Lonzo Ball, Lonzo Ball, Lonzo Ball (Beetlejuice test)

Lonzo Ball, Lonzo Ball, Lonzo Ball, Lonzo Ball, Lonzo Ball (Candyman test)

It’s OK. Nothing happened. You can type his name.
Dez
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,712
And1: 6,466
Joined: Jul 23, 2011
Location: Melbourne, Australia
 

Re: Do the Bulls have the worst starting pointguard in the division? 

Post#3 » by Dez » Wed Sep 15, 2021 11:50 am

Short answer: No
Long answer: No

Ball is better than Sexton and Cunningham is more of a 2 and also hasn't played a game.
User avatar
Little Nathan
General Manager
Posts: 7,774
And1: 5,103
Joined: Mar 11, 2013
Location: Germany
   

Re: Do the Bulls have the worst starting pointguard in the division? 

Post#4 » by Little Nathan » Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:11 pm

Sexton isn’t even the best point guard on his own team.
"Heart is a skill that players who shoot 3s might not have." - Chris Webber, actually getting paid for this
User avatar
Michael Jackson
Forum Mod - Bulls
Forum Mod - Bulls
Posts: 17,721
And1: 3,591
Joined: Jun 15, 2001

Re: Do the Bulls have the worst starting pointguard in the division? 

Post#5 » by Michael Jackson » Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:22 pm

It depends on the metric of it. No one is going to say Lonzo Ball is the best PG out there and if he was we couldn’t have gotten him for the money we did. Fit wise Ball works with this squad imho, I would take him over Sexton. I would also take Garland over sexton though too and think the Cavs have made that their priority too. The point though is that Ball is better than Sato or White so we upgraded.
sco
RealGM
Posts: 18,213
And1: 5,351
Joined: Sep 22, 2003
Location: Virtually Everywhere!

Re: Do the Bulls have the worst starting pointguard in the division? 

Post#6 » by sco » Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:27 pm

I think the more important question is how much better our PG is this year vs. last year. Also, I think it will take a couple of months for him to get used to his new teammates and become more effective. The Bulls' offensive playmaking duties, IMO, are different in the full and half court (where Vuc and DDR will likely have the main distribution role). To succeed as a team, we'll need Ball to improve his ball handling skills and ability to finish at the rim this season, and his defense.
:clap:
User avatar
Grodoboldo
Veteran
Posts: 2,802
And1: 2,035
Joined: Sep 26, 2010
Location: Sao Paulo
 

Re: Do the Bulls have the worst starting pointguard in the division? 

Post#7 » by Grodoboldo » Wed Sep 15, 2021 12:33 pm

No.

Sexton is worse. Garland is worse. Cade is a rookie, so who knows. Hayes is worse. Brogdon is probably better, but hurt a lot.

Also, our PG (Lonzo) probably won't be our main initiator, so that question has all kinds of layers.
This signature has been S&Td by Artūras Karnišovas and Marc Eversley in exchange for your mom.
User avatar
FriedRise
General Manager
Posts: 9,074
And1: 8,159
Joined: Jan 13, 2015
Location: Chicago
 

Re: Do the Bulls have the worst starting pointguard in the division? 

Post#8 » by FriedRise » Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:23 pm

Is this a "I don't like Lonzo Ball" thread? ;)

Until we land CP3 - and 29 teams don't - I believe we're going to continue to run a PG-by-committee system. That's why they targeted all these players who can also handle the ball some in addition to all their other skills. We just hope that the upgrades we made would result in a lot less turnovers and lot more buckets regardless of whomever initiates the offense. On paper, I think they've achieved that since the players we added (Lonzo, Caruso, DDR) have pretty good assist/turnover ratio compared to the ones outgoing/relegated to less playmaking duties (Coby, Zach, various butterfinger bigs).

Some possessions we might swing the ball around with every player touching it, in other possessions we might have Vooch, DDR, or Zach going ISO because of matchups. As long as it ends in a bucket, I'm good.
Wingy
RealGM
Posts: 10,037
And1: 1,750
Joined: Feb 15, 2007

Re: Do the Bulls have the worst starting pointguard in the division? 

Post#9 » by Wingy » Wed Sep 15, 2021 1:35 pm

I’d guess Cade will be similar to Lonzo in that their hype coming out of the draft >>> impact in their career. <—- this is not a direct player comparison before you get all excited Cade lovers. It’s only a comment on hype to production ratios.

Maybe Lonzo is the “worst,” but that doesn’t mean much at all. Someone would have to be “worst” by this sort of absolute measure, but that doesn’t mean they have some huge, clear cut advantage over him - except for Jrue. The others are marginally better, if they’re even better at all.
sljdaddy
Junior
Posts: 284
And1: 58
Joined: Aug 17, 2006

Re: Do the Bulls have the worst starting pointguard in the division? 

Post#10 » by sljdaddy » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:03 pm

I'd take Lonzo over every starting point guard in our division except Brogdon, until we see what Cunningham can do.

The PG by committee approach? We don't need that anymore.

Give Lonzo the ball and let him facilitate. That's what we've been looking for, and that's what we've got.

The Lakers took the ball out of Lonzo's hands and gave it to Lebron. The Pelicans tried to turn him into a 3 and D guy.

Let the guy play in his lane, and get out of his way.
User avatar
Little Nathan
General Manager
Posts: 7,774
And1: 5,103
Joined: Mar 11, 2013
Location: Germany
   

Re: Do the Bulls have the worst starting pointguard in the division? 

Post#11 » by Little Nathan » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:09 pm

sljdaddy wrote:I'd take Lonzo over every starting point guard in our division except Brogdon


So you'd take Brogdon and Lonzo over Jrue?

I mean...okay.
"Heart is a skill that players who shoot 3s might not have." - Chris Webber, actually getting paid for this
heir_jordan22
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,199
And1: 247
Joined: Jul 16, 2008
   

Re: Do the Bulls have the worst starting pyou people must be on drugs I'd you think Brogdon ointguard in the division? 

Post#12 » by heir_jordan22 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:43 pm

You people are on drugs if you think Brogdon is only marginally better than Lonzo.

But the pistons and cavs PGs are Garland and Hayes. Lonzo is better than Hayes. Garland is probably marginally better than Lonzo. The only thing that I can think of that Lonzo does better than Garland is dunking and being able to switch on defense.
IamSam
Senior
Posts: 560
And1: 136
Joined: Oct 29, 2009

Re: Do the Bulls have the worst starting pointguard in the division? 

Post#13 » by IamSam » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:45 pm

Michael Jackson wrote:It depends on the metric of it. No one is going to say Lonzo Ball is the best PG out there and if he was we couldn’t have gotten him for the money we did. Fit wise Ball works with this squad imho, I would take him over Sexton. I would also take Garland over sexton though too and think the Cavs have made that their priority too. The point though is that Ball is better than Sato or White so we upgraded.



https://theanalyst.com/na/2021/07/lonzo-ball-new-orleans-pelicans-restricted-free-agent/

I think this article is a pretty good breakdown of Lonzo's strengths as well as weaknesses.

IMO, MJ is thinking about this the right way; it really depends on how you are measuring the effectiveness of your PG. Lonzo definitely doesn't fit squarely into the traditional PG position and yet, some of his talents are such that if you can mitigate some of his weaknesses with team construction/role, then I think there is an opportunity for him to have a positive impact far beyond what one might expect from the "worst starting point guard in the division".
drosestruts
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,463
And1: 2,061
Joined: Apr 05, 2012
 

Re: Do the Bulls have the worst starting pointguard in the division? 

Post#14 » by drosestruts » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:49 pm

Brogdon
Holiday
Lonzo
Garland
Sexton

Never seen Cade play an NBA game
kodo
RealGM
Posts: 15,247
And1: 10,044
Joined: Oct 10, 2006
Location: Northshore Burbs

Re: Do the Bulls have the worst starting pointguard in the division? 

Post#15 » by kodo » Wed Sep 15, 2021 3:58 pm

Definitely not the worst unless we're looking for someone to just to score and not make plays.

Assists Per 100 possessions,
Holiday: 8.8
Brogdon: 8.1
Sexton: 6.1
Cunningham: 5.4

Ball (Van Gundy): 8.7
Ball (Career): 9.4

I only have Jrue as definitely better. Brogdon probably better, but IMO there's hope that better coaching will get Lonzo back to his career #s, NOP was a system disaster last season. Sexton I wouldn't touch as a playmaker, he's a tunnel vision scorer. Cunningham is a big unknown, but even vs college competition he averaged 3 apg.

We don't need or want our PG to be a taking the most shots on the team, that would actively be a bad PG for us with the team we have.
League Circles
RealGM
Posts: 31,267
And1: 8,203
Joined: Dec 04, 2001
       

Re: Do the Bulls have the worst starting pointguard in the division? 

Post#16 » by League Circles » Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:20 pm

I haven't done a full run down, and I'm not upset that we signed him given who else we signed, but I think Ball is probably one of the worst starting PGs in the league. Though even if he is, hopefully his fit will elevate his impact for us, and he can also improve.
https://august-shop.com/ streetwear & sneakers
IamSam
Senior
Posts: 560
And1: 136
Joined: Oct 29, 2009

Re: Do the Bulls have the worst starting pointguard in the division? 

Post#17 » by IamSam » Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:22 pm

kodo wrote:Definitely not the worst unless we're looking for someone to just to score and not make plays.

Assists Per 100 possessions,
Holiday: 8.8
Brogdon: 8.1
Sexton: 6.1
Cunningham: 5.4

Ball (Van Gundy): 8.7
Ball (Career): 9.4

I only have Jrue as definitely better. Brogdon probably better, but IMO there's hope that better coaching will get Lonzo back to his career #s, NOP was a system disaster last season. Sexton I wouldn't touch as a playmaker, he's a tunnel vision scorer. Cunningham is a big unknown, but even vs college competition he averaged 3 apg.

We don't need or want our PG to be a taking the most shots on the team, that would actively be a bad PG for us with the team we have.


I'm not too concerned about his career numbers just yet; If you eliminate, year 2 where he was obviously impacted by the arrival of Lebron, you would see a pretty straightforward upward trajectory if you look at his stat trend line.
jump
Analyst
Posts: 3,691
And1: 1,177
Joined: Jun 15, 2001

Re: Do the Bulls have the worst starting pointguard in the division? 

Post#18 » by jump » Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:46 pm

This is silly.
User avatar
dougthonus
Senior Mod - Bulls
Senior Mod - Bulls
Posts: 50,428
And1: 10,411
Joined: Dec 22, 2004
Contact:
 

Re: Do the Bulls have the worst starting pointguard in the division? 

Post#19 » by dougthonus » Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:53 pm

Do the Bulls have the best SG in the division?
Do the Bulls have the best C in the division?

Answer is obvious yes to both of these questions. It's almost like looking at a position in a vacuum and trying to determine how that relates to talent overall isn't useful.
http://linktr.ee/bullsbeat - links to the bullsbeat podcast
@doug_thonus on twitter
PrimzyBulls81
Analyst
Posts: 3,354
And1: 955
Joined: Feb 09, 2013
       

Re: Do the Bulls have the worst starting pointguard in the division? 

Post#20 » by PrimzyBulls81 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:02 pm

1.Brogdon/Holiday
3.Ball
Sexton
Cade,Garland

Return to Chicago Bulls