Trade Thread

[AirP.]

If pay day push was the narrative, wouldn't he have worked hard leading up to his contract year, not after?

The contract year is usually a pretty bad narrative.

In the eyes of ever critical fans, how many times a player posts pictures of himself working out seems to correspond to how hard they must be working. You don't think they don't work on their game each and every day?

Mirotic was kinda busy last summer with the Olympics, so his only off season to work out after he was in the NBA was after his rookie season and Chicago just fired their coach and with that Niko was somewhat in limbo. Thibs played him at SF to get him on the court so does he continue to workout as a SF or work on being a big. I get the hybrid 4 isn't that different then the 3 anymore but outside of just working on shooting, what defense is he suppose to work on, footspeed for outside defense or more power and position vs bigger guys in the post? This is one of the big problems franchises have when they keep changing coaches, the players never have a clear path on what to work on because they're not sure how they'll be utilized the next season.

[gardenofsound]

This was a trade proposed in the Trades & Transactions board by a Bucks fan: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1576013

The Bucks trade: Middleton, Parker, Henson, #17, 2018 1st (10 protected)
The Bulls trade: Butler + whatever balances it

The Bucks get a legit All Star to pair with Giannis

Brogdon, Snell, Butler, Giannis, Thon

The Bulls get two very good young pieces plus 2 1st round picks to build with

Rondo, Wade, Middleton Parker, Lopez

My response, which got an And1 from the OP, was...

This would be a decent deal for the Bulls. This depletes the Bucks depth, though.

For the Bulls it would be Rondo or Lopez included to match salaries. OR, just exclude Henson from the deal. No protection on that 2018 pick and move it out to 2022 or later, since that 2018 is pretty low value with the Bucks expecting HCA in the playoffs.

Here's my proposal to riff on this:

CHI Out: Butler, Lopez, Rondo
CHI In: Noah, Lee, Parker, Henson, 2018 NYK 1st (unprotected) and/or 2017 NYK 1st (#8), 2017 MIL 1st (#17), 2021 MIL 1st (unprotected)

MIL Out: Middleton, Henson, Parker, 2017 #17, 2021 1st Pick
MIL In: Butler, Rondo

NYK Out: Noah, Lee, 2018 NYK 1st (unprotected)
NYK In: Middleton, Lopez

Why for New York? Get out of Noah's contract, and Middleton is an upgrade at SG for them over Courtney Lee. That's the omelet, and the broken egg is the draft pick they're trading to Chicago.
Why for Chicago? Take on bad contracts that will help them tank. Noah is garbage at this point. Lee might be tradable.
Why for Milwaukee? Well, OP already told us. Their deal really doesn't change with this.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ybwl25z6

All this said, I don't think this is a good deal for the Bucks, but I entertained it because it was a Bucks fan who proposed it.

As for the Knicks, at this point, Lopez is locked in for less years at a lower salary than Noah, and he's a dependable upgrade to boot. Middleton is a younger, better 3D SG than Courtney Lee on a good value contract given where the cap has gone since he signed it. He has two more years under team control before a PO which he would likely decline.

[sh0ck]

If pay day push was the narrative, wouldn't he have worked hard leading up to his contract year, not after?

The contract year is usually a pretty bad narrative.

In the eyes of ever critical fans, how many times a player posts pictures of himself working out seems to correspond to how hard they must be working. You don't think they don't work on their game each and every day?

Mirotic was kinda busy last summer with the Olympics, so his only off season to work out after he was in the NBA was after his rookie season and Chicago just fired their coach and with that Niko was somewhat in limbo. Thibs played him at SF to get him on the court so does he continue to workout as a SF or work on being a big. I get the hybrid 4 isn't that different then the 3 anymore but outside of just working on shooting, what defense is he suppose to work on, footspeed for outside defense or more power and position vs bigger guys in the post? This is one of the big problems franchises have when they keep changing coaches, the players never have a clear path on what to work on because they're not sure how they'll be utilized the next season.

I felt like putting him at 3 was always setting him up to fail. If anything, he works as a small-ball 5, since he's actually not awful on switches and has enough length to grab rebounds and defend he rim.

[Chi town]

Jimmy for Fox and Bender.

Draft OG at 16. Suck next season and get another top pick next summer.

Fox
Val
OG
NIko
Bender

Solid mix of shooting, spacing, defense, high ceilings, athleticism, and versatility. Go into 2018 with massive cap space too.

[R3AL1TY]

It's looking more and more like the Lakers are just not impressed with Lonzo Fall. The word now is they might trade the #2 pick.

[micromonkey]

There have been several research articles showing tanking RARELY works. OKC is probably the recent example that worked--but their team was too cheap to keep a potential dynasty together--so then there is that.

I do think retooling with younger players--drafting well with the picks you have, taking chances on deals with upside (to create assets) and managing contracts--where you trade players at peak vs depressed value ARE all things we could be doing. Our drafting has been good and bad. Butler obviously among the good; Mirotic as well based on where we got him--McDermott being the catastrophic trade that cost us countless 2nd rounders. 2nd rounders do have value--you can probably find a list of 5 or so recent 2nd rounders who have been better than many 1-3 picks. Harder to find for sure--but build the org that is great and finding it.

Where we should gamble a bit is to take more chances on players with upside and better manage who we sign. When we got DJ/Nate we did 1 year deals and were not able to capitalize on these guys when they did well with Thibs. We are very risk averse on this front for the most part.

You need to be able to keep looking for potential gold in guys like Covington/Beverly/Danny Green/Whiteside/Lin. These were guys every team had a crack at--and there are more to that list for sure--those just off the top of my head. You can either keep or trade for other assets. Many were signed to multiyear deals which enabled years of under-market service and made/make them desired contracts.

We don't seem to have a great development staff--I'd invest in that. Drafting has been meh since Butler. I'd redouble my efforts to draft and develop players like SAS does. I'd put efforts to try and have an analytical staff like HOU. I'd try and hire scouts/asst coaches/stat guys/dev/training staff from top orgs. I'd get a team to invest into deep learning to analyze everything from players to plays to coaches games, rest etc.

Model after the best and try to be better.

[sh0ck]

Listening to a the LockedOnNBA pod and heard Stanley Johnson's name mentioned in potential trades.

If Stanley Johnson was available for the #16 pick would you guys do it? Does Detroit do that?

[the ultimates]

Listening to a the LockedOnNBA pod and heard Stanley Johnson's name mentioned in potential trades.

If Stanley Johnson was available for the #16 pick would you guys do it? Does Detroit do that?

Why has he fallen of favor in Detroit?

[sh0ck]

Listening to a the LockedOnNBA pod and heard Stanley Johnson's name mentioned in potential trades.

If Stanley Johnson was available for the #16 pick would you guys do it? Does Detroit do that?

Why has he fallen of favor in Detroit?

This is a good breakdown of the trade suggested, and a brief reasoning why they would make the trade.
https://pistonpowered.com/2017/06/15/detroit-pistons-locked-nba-mock-draft/

In the pod, he also mentioned that Stanley and Stan have not really seen eye-to-eye and his sophomore slump has didn't really help his cause.

[Bulls_Fan]

I'd make a Godfather offer to the Lakers that is a win/win for both teams. Most fans will hate it but I like it.
Butler, Rondo for Deng, Mosgov, Randle, #2 pick, 2nd round pick.

We start our rebuild with 2 great pieces. Taking Mosgov and Deng's awful contract is the poison pill but with Deng, he will be a great mentor for the younger players.

Lakers get out of 2 bad contracts and would have enough money to sign George and Lebron if they wanted next offseason.

[GimmeDat]

You got to think with all this chatter about the picks that teams would be more open to move them for Butler.

A lot of smokescreens, sure, but I think there's enough news going on that it's pretty real.

Also, I do like Stanley Johnson as a buy low candidate (mentioned above).

[Dan Z]

You got to think with all this chatter about the picks that teams would be more open to move them for Butler.

A lot of smokescreens, sure, but I think there's enough news going on that it's pretty real.

Also, I do like Stanley Johnson as a buy low candidate (mentioned above).

Would you trade the #16 pick straight up for Stanley Johnson?

[GimmeDat]

You got to think with all this chatter about the picks that teams would be more open to move them for Butler.

A lot of smokescreens, sure, but I think there's enough news going on that it's pretty real.

Also, I do like Stanley Johnson as a buy low candidate (mentioned above).

Would you trade the #16 pick straight up for Stanley Johnson?

Probably not. I'm not sure we have the value to get him otherwise, but I think 16 is too much.

[Dan Z]

You got to think with all this chatter about the picks that teams would be more open to move them for Butler.

A lot of smokescreens, sure, but I think there's enough news going on that it's pretty real.

Also, I do like Stanley Johnson as a buy low candidate (mentioned above).

Would you trade the #16 pick straight up for Stanley Johnson?

Probably not. I'm not sure we have the value to get him otherwise, but I think 16 is too much.

Payne and the 38t pick? Or Payne and Zipser?

Nah you're right....we don't have the assets to get him. He was promising coming into the league, but I wonder if he'll ever reach it.

[GimmeDat]

Would you trade the #16 pick straight up for Stanley Johnson?

Probably not. I'm not sure we have the value to get him otherwise, but I think 16 is too much.

Payne and the 38t pick? Or Payne and Zipser?

Nah you're right....we don't have the assets to get him. He was promising coming into the league, but I wonder if he'll ever reach it.

Definitely do those deals but I don't think they land him. Johnson had too much of a slump for me to give up the 16th for him.

Maybe if we traded back for a couple of later 1st's we could move one of those for him. Between Butler/Zipser at SF I don't think they'll feel super inclined to get him though.

[Dan Z]

Probably not. I'm not sure we have the value to get him otherwise, but I think 16 is too much.

Payne and the 38t pick? Or Payne and Zipser?

Nah you're right....we don't have the assets to get him. He was promising coming into the league, but I wonder if he'll ever reach it.

Definitely do those deals but I don't think they land him. Johnson had too much of a slump for me to give up the 16th for him.

Maybe if we traded back for a couple of later 1st's we could move one of those for him. Between Butler/Zipser at SF I don't think they'll feel super inclined to get him though.

I agree, but it's interesting...is Johnson a worse prospect than the players we've talked about taking at #16? I'm not so sure, but the unknown is better than a player who has struggled (Johnson).

[3noD]

Listening to a the LockedOnNBA pod and heard Stanley Johnson's name mentioned in potential trades.

If Stanley Johnson was available for the #16 pick would you guys do it? Does Detroit do that?

Yes, I'd do it


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[sh0ck]

You got to think with all this chatter about the picks that teams would be more open to move them for Butler.

A lot of smokescreens, sure, but I think there's enough news going on that it's pretty real.

Also, I do like Stanley Johnson as a buy low candidate (mentioned above).

Would you trade the #16 pick straight up for Stanley Johnson?

He's still only 21. And would be the youngest player on the roster.

I think he just needs more reps and a change in scenery. A player with his physical attributes and potential would not fall to 16th in this draft.

[AirP.]

Yes, another day and the young guys are still working hard! Phew... I thought it was like every other year where the players just took all summer off.

Who knows, maybe the Bulls have decided to rebuild and they're trying to get fans on board with the young guys so when some other players are gone there's still players to root for. No matter how many times I see Payne "workout" I'll still remember seeing him clowning around and not paying attention on the bench while his teammates are working hard in the games. I'm really surprised that wasn't addressed and handled by the vets.

Read on Twitter

[AirP.]

It's looking more and more like the Lakers are just not impressed with Lonzo Fall. The word now is they might trade the #2 pick.

Is it not being impressed with Ball or how they'll have to adjust the roster to utilize his talent? Is Ball + whatever moves they have to make with Russell?

If Boston isn't 100% sure with Fultz why not drop down 2 and pick up an asset from the Lakers. Make a package with the #1 and try to pry the #2 and J.Randall or L.Nance Jr. away from them.