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Mech Engineer · Post #101 » by **Mech Engineer** » Wed Oct 7, 2020 3:19 pm

Bam's passing, playmaking is kind of like what Noah used to do. A quick dribble and scan for a pass. It is choreographed. It is not the same with Jokic's playmaking. He causes confusion to the defense whether he is going to score/pass and it's organic. That's what Dragic provides. You can get some playmaking from Bam but in the last few minutes, those things are gone.

Post #102 » by **Ice Man** » Wed Oct 7, 2020 4:25 pm

DASMACKDOWN wrote:Another thing on the game last night, I actually think Bam returning hurt the Heat.

With Bam coming back, it plays to the Lakers strengths. On top of that, it totally clogs up the lane for Jimmy.

As we have seen with Kelly Olynyk he scored 24 and then 17 thats still more than Bam scored. Bam with 15/7 while limiting Jimmy is not going to beat the Lakers.

I think with Kelly Olynyk or Lenard out there, it creates the space for Jimmy or whomever to work.

AD had 4 big blocks last night because he wasnt sitting at the 3pt line trying to guard Olynyk.

All true, although in fairness to Bam he further improved the Heat defense. They really made it tough on the Lakers. Unfortunately, it was tougher yet on the Heat, and you are right, they could have used an effective Olynyk on offense.

TheStig · Post #103 » by **TheStig** » Wed Oct 7, 2020 7:22 pm

DASMACKDOWN wrote:Another thing on the game last night, I actually think Bam returning hurt the Heat.

With Bam coming back, it plays to the Lakers strengths. On top of that, it totally clogs up the lane for Jimmy.

As we have seen with Kelly Olynyk he scored 24 and then 17 thats still more than Bam scored. Bam with 15/7 while limiting Jimmy is not going to beat the Lakers.

I think with Kelly Olynyk or Lenard out there, it creates the space for Jimmy or whomever to work.

AD had 4 big blocks last night because he wasnt sitting at the 3pt line trying to guard Olynyk.

It hurt them on offense but it helped them on defense. They still kept it really close. Though I do agree, it really closed down the lane for Jimmy and his 3pt shot has disappeared. He used to be pretty good but now he's passing up open 3's. If he could nail those, he'd have had 35 points yesterday and opened up driving space for himself.

Miami really only has 1 two way player and that's Jimmy. Bam might get you 20 points but it's put backs and fast break drives. Herro is the only other scorer and he's incredibly inconsistent and has a poor shot selection.

The only chance for the heat is if they start raining 3's and they fall.

R3AL1TY · Post #104 » by **R3AL1TY** » Wed Oct 7, 2020 8:03 pm

Jimmy has to be aggressive on the level of game 3 the rest of the series or else they won't win another game.

jc23 · Post #105 » by **jc23** » Wed Oct 7, 2020 9:29 pm

i expect a fair whistle in game 5, a longer series is better for the league.

Repeat 3-peat · Post #106 » by **Repeat 3-peat** » Wed Oct 7, 2020 9:37 pm

For "The Last Dance" fans or collectors, A blu ray box set of the doc is now up for pre order. Comes with 4 hours of bonus videos. Limited supply.

Read on Twitter

Click the link on the tweet to get links(Walmart/Target/Best Buy) to pre order

Post #107 » by **Ice Man** » Wed Oct 7, 2020 11:14 pm

Another stat that I haven't heard of, but the output looks about what I would expect -

Jacob Goldstein
@JacobEGoldstein
·
19h
Cumulative Points Added through the first 4 games of the 2020 NBA Finals (min 15 mpg).

Top 3:
LeBron James +17.8
Jimmy Butler +16.5
Anthony Davis +13.1

Bottom 3:
Andre Iguodala -5.7
Danny Green -5.8
Tyler Herro -14.3

The three studs have indeed been studs, Iggy is old as hell, Danny Green hasn't made his shots, and Tyler Herro has been a one-man Heat wrecking crew. He has been so terrible in the Finals, bad rookie defense, bad rookie decisions on the ball, and to cap it off, bricking.

Post #108 » by **kingkirk** » Thu Oct 8, 2020 12:08 am

dougthonus wrote:Well it didn't turn out that way, but glad we had hope for a couple days there The Heat did come closer than I expected in game 4, will be interesting to see if they fold or come out hard in game 5. I could see them winning game 5, they don't look like a team that will drop the rope. Just not talented enough.

Yeah, not having that second credible on-ball creator (Dragic) to take advantage of AD guarding out high on Jimmy and away from the rim really hurts at this point.

It also limits their drive and kick to shooters game.

Damn shame that injuries have had this influence.

johnnyvann840 · Post #109 » by **johnnyvann840** » Thu Oct 8, 2020 12:23 am

Good article on the Heat and why their future is bright....

https://www.theringer.com/2020/10/7/21505599/miami-heat-nba-finals-golden-state-warriors

Post #110 » by **dougthonus** » Thu Oct 8, 2020 12:34 am

Mark K wrote:
dougthonus wrote:Well it didn't turn out that way, but glad we had hope for a couple days there The Heat did come closer than I expected in game 4, will be interesting to see if they fold or come out hard in game 5. I could see them winning game 5, they don't look like a team that will drop the rope. Just not talented enough.

Yeah, not having that second credible on-ball creator (Dragic) to take advantage of AD guarding out high on Jimmy and away from the rim really hurts at this point.

It also limits their drive and kick to shooters game.

Damn shame that injuries have had this influence.

I had the Lakers in 5 before injuries, and the one win came without guys. I don't think the outcome would have been different in the series or any games without the injuries.

Post #111 » by **kingkirk** » Thu Oct 8, 2020 1:05 am

dougthonus wrote:
Mark K wrote:
dougthonus wrote:Well it didn't turn out that way, but glad we had hope for a couple days there The Heat did come closer than I expected in game 4, will be interesting to see if they fold or come out hard in game 5. I could see them winning game 5, they don't look like a team that will drop the rope. Just not talented enough.

Yeah, not having that second credible on-ball creator (Dragic) to take advantage of AD guarding out high on Jimmy and away from the rim really hurts at this point.

It also limits their drive and kick to shooters game.

Damn shame that injuries have had this influence.

I had the Lakers in 5 before injuries, and the one win came without guys. I don't think the outcome would have been different in the series or any games without the injuries.

You can maybe get me to agree that this still goes five with a healthy Dragic and Bam, there's no way I believe this isn't significantly closer given that Miami have been right there in G3 and G4.

Post #112 » by **DASMACKDOWN** » Thu Oct 8, 2020 2:32 am

What makes it crazy in this series is that Jimmy has made it a complete wash with Lebron. They are basically avg the same so they cancel each other out.

The major difference though has always been AD.

They can go toe to toe with Lebron. They cant go toe to toe with AD. That is the single most significant difference. Lebron is going to win finals MVP but true swing player has always been AD.

TheStig · Post #113 » by **TheStig** » Thu Oct 8, 2020 3:07 am

Mark K wrote:
dougthonus wrote:
Mark K wrote:
Yeah, not having that second credible on-ball creator (Dragic) to take advantage of AD guarding out high on Jimmy and away from the rim really hurts at this point.

It also limits their drive and kick to shooters game.

Damn shame that injuries have had this influence.

I had the Lakers in 5 before injuries, and the one win came without guys. I don't think the outcome would have been different in the series or any games without the injuries.

You can maybe get me to agree that this still goes five with a healthy Dragic and Bam, there's no way I believe this isn't significantly closer given that Miami have been right there in G3 and G4.

I think they win yesterday's game with Dragic. It was close, Jimmy was dead tired, Nunn was absolutely dreadful in his minutes. I think he puts them over the hump.

PaKii94 · Post #114 » by **PaKii94** » Thu Oct 8, 2020 3:14 am

DASMACKDOWN wrote:What makes it crazy in this series is that Jimmy has made it a complete wash with Lebron. They are basically avg the same so they cancel each other out.

The major difference though has always been AD.

They can go toe to toe with Lebron. They cant go toe to toe with AD. That is the single most significant difference. Lebron is going to win finals MVP but true swing player has always been AD.

Yeah that's what I've noticed too. If they can slow down AD they can break the Lakers. Otherwise Bam needs to match AD

Post #115 » by **kingkirk** » Thu Oct 8, 2020 4:01 am

TheStig wrote:
Mark K wrote:
dougthonus wrote:
I had the Lakers in 5 before injuries, and the one win came without guys. I don't think the outcome would have been different in the series or any games without the injuries.

You can maybe get me to agree that this still goes five with a healthy Dragic and Bam, there's no way I believe this isn't significantly closer given that Miami have been right there in G3 and G4.

I think they win yesterday's game with Dragic. It was close, Jimmy was dead tired, Nunn was absolutely dreadful in his minutes. I think he puts them over the hump.

I feel similarly. That felt more like a Heat loss than a Lakers win. There were execution errors that don't happen if you're not forcing Herro and Nunn to extend themselves into be a secondary creators.

Southpaw · Post #116 » by **Southpaw** » Thu Oct 8, 2020 4:01 am

DASMACKDOWN wrote:What makes it crazy in this series is that Jimmy has made it a complete wash with Lebron. They are basically avg the same so they cancel each other out.

The major difference though has always been AD.

They can go toe to toe with Lebron. They cant go toe to toe with AD. That is the single most significant difference. Lebron is going to win finals MVP but true swing player has always been AD.

Agree with this. Jimmy has been amazing all series, basically matching Lebron. And he's been guarding Lebron most of the time too. AD has been the one they really can't stop and AD's defense on Jimmy was crucial in game 4.

My guess on the FMVP is whoever plays better in the closing game will win it. If it's close, it goes to Lebron. And we all know Lebron will go for it.

BigBoss23 · Post #117 » by **BigBoss23** » Thu Oct 8, 2020 4:12 am

Southpaw wrote:
DASMACKDOWN wrote:What makes it crazy in this series is that Jimmy has made it a complete wash with Lebron. They are basically avg the same so they cancel each other out.

The major difference though has always been AD.

They can go toe to toe with Lebron. They cant go toe to toe with AD. That is the single most significant difference. Lebron is going to win finals MVP but true swing player has always been AD.

Agree with this. Jimmy has been amazing all series, basically matching Lebron. And he's been guarding Lebron most of the time too. AD has been the one they really can't stop and AD's defense on Jimmy was crucial in game 4.

My guess on the FMVP is whoever plays better in the closing game will win it. If it's close, it goes to Lebron. And we all know Lebron will go for it.

Tbh I dont think its as close as people think. This should be AD going away.

From a raw stats POV lebrons only real adv is raw assists. He handles the rock the most so its natural he’ll get something close to his avg which he has.

However in the one Laker loss who was the one in foul trouble? It was AD. Did lebron do anything to stand out down the stretch? Imo no. Not sure why some on the GB think thats a strike AGAINST AD. If anything it shows just how valuable AD has been.

Who checked Jimmy down the stretch of game 4? AD.

What have AD’s shooting splits been? 61/55/100. Thats absurd.

Who is the one guy Miami doesnt have an answer for? AD.

Plus minus this series? Not the be all end all stat for sure, but AD has been by far the best Laker (+50 aggregate I believe) and nobody else including lebron (+15?) is even close.

This should be AD but as the books have said, lebron was a -2500 fav this morning while AD a +900 dog. That should tell you everyones sucking lebrons dick.

PrimzyBulls81 · Post #118 » by **PrimzyBulls81** » Thu Oct 8, 2020 4:29 am

Well if LeBron would go heroball and jack up 30 shots he could have 40+ pts.. But he plays pg forward and plays pretty much within team.. He shots pretty low volume for alpha dog.

ZOMG · Post #119 » by **ZOMG** » Thu Oct 8, 2020 6:34 am

In other news... we have not one, not two, but THREE topics on the 1st page devoted to a guy who doesn't play for the Bulls.

It's just strange. Maybe move on?

BookerBulls · Post #120 » by **BookerBulls** » Thu Oct 8, 2020 9:53 am

This series is very different with Dragic healthy - earlier series he was easily top 2 or 3 player for the Heat. He was the creator on offense giving Jimmy a break and getting clutch buckets when they were required. As soon as he went down and was out for the series - the Heat were always going to struggle. Those creation duties then went to Herro and he simply isn't ready for that load just yet. If Duncan Robinson and Herro could even just shoot average or get hot at any time in the finals - they could really challenge the Lakers and make it a much closer series.

One extra creator for the Heat when they put AD on Jimmy makes it a very different series.

But those are the breaks.....I would one day love to see how many fully healthy teams LBJ has played against in all of his title runs.

I know that injuries happen - but he seems to have had a great run through most of his playoff runs. Just when you think a team might have enough to at least make a challenge to an LBJ team, one (or 3) of their integral players go down with an injury.

Or, maybe it is just revisionist history on my part because I really dislike him and what he has done to the NBA.