OT Election Thread

[mtron32]

More and more of them do want to change, however. A number of billionaires have said recently that they should be taxed more.

Only the outspoken well known billionaires have said they maybe okay with this. The bulk of them are not. Take Paul Singer for example. Horrible person but as soon as they massively raise taxes, he'll flee the US. Wealth goes to other countries. I expect most go this route.

taxes are not going to be massively raised on ANYbody. that's just not a political reality. if biden wins the presidency and the dems take the senate, i anticipate the top rates going back to the obama levels

Eisenhower had the highest top bracket taxes seen in the US and that was one of the larges growth periods seen and helped build the middle class. When the people have money to spend, they buy the stuff those billionaires produce, broke Americans not so much.

[MrFortune3]

Additionally, the Never Trump movement has completely metamorphosed into the Vote Biden - Country First- He's a decent man movement.

I’ve been wondering if there’s ever been an election in American history where so many members of the President’s own party have straight out endorsed the other party’s candidate, from the Lincoln Project to the 120 former GOP national security officials. Not to mention those who haven’t outright endorsed Biden but don’t support Trump’s re-election like George W Bush, Jim Mattis, John Kelly and Mitt Romney. It’s kind of amazing.

You know how when you have that family member that you never want to claim and actively ask if they're truly related to you? That's how some feel about him.

[johnnyvann840]

Not really. I don’t believe for one second they Biden is racist and to be honest.......neither is Trump.

Well, let's just say he hasn't done the African American community any favors in his half century in politics. I say he is a bigot because of some of comments about Indians, Blacks and Jews over the years. He's called Jews "shylocks", recently, said that blacks aren't diverse like the hispanic community, said you cannot go into a Dunkin Donuts or 7 Eleven "unless you have an Indian accent"..... just things like that.

This breaks down his record pretty well... from New York Mag last spring before he won the nomination

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/03/joe-biden-record-on-busing-incarceration-racial-justice-democratic-primary-2020-explained.html

I just think he's a phony. But I'm also more anti-Trump, so the lesser of two evils comes into play here. I just think it's pathetic that these have to be our choices for the highest office in the land.

'bigot' is not the word you're looking for. biden is not intolerant, nor does he harbor any malice. mere ignorance does not make one a bigot

OK, let's just say he's extremely ignorant and very creepy to me. He just makes my skin crawl almost as much as Trump does. Which is frightening in itself.

[MrFortune3]

Only the outspoken well known billionaires have said they maybe okay with this. The bulk of them are not. Take Paul Singer for example. Horrible person but as soon as they massively raise taxes, he'll flee the US. Wealth goes to other countries. I expect most go this route.

taxes are not going to be massively raised on ANYbody. that's just not a political reality. if biden wins the presidency and the dems take the senate, i anticipate the top rates going back to the obama levels

Eisenhower had the highest top bracket taxes seen in the US and that was one of the larges growth periods seen and helped build the middle class. When the people have money to spend, they buy the stuff those billionaires produce, broke Americans not so much.

The more money is constantly flowing, the more economic growth takes place. Billionaires and the super rich don't spend their fortunes. They invest and grow their fortunes but the money doesn't ultimately move anywhere.

Without taxes and etc, that money just stagnates. The middle class and etc needs to grow again.

[Ben Wilson25]

Additionally, the Never Trump movement has completely metamorphosed into the Vote Biden - Country First- He's a decent man movement.

I’ve been wondering if there’s ever been an election in American history where so many members of the President’s own party have straight out endorsed the other party’s candidate, from the Lincoln Project to the 120 former GOP national security officials. Not to mention those who haven’t outright endorsed Biden but don’t support Trump’s re-election like George W Bush, Jim Mattis, John Kelly and Mitt Romney. It’s kind of amazing.

Romney didn't endorse Biden though only some of his staffers did which doesn't mean much. Bush said he will keep his vote secret so I assume that means Trump. No doubt Trump has some people that don't support him inside his party but Bush republican approval was incredibly low compared to Trump.

If you read that sentence again I said that second group didn’t endorse Biden but have made it clear they don’t support Trump’s re-election. FWIW, it’s been reported by “sources close to” GWB that he won’t vote for Trump. Either way, kind of crazy that the previous President from your own party won’t endorse you.

[Chi town]

This election is by far the most unpredictable election of all time due to all the x factors. I'm not going to predict who wins and who doesn't as both parties seem confident they'll win. Anyone who claims they know will more likely than not be dead wrong.

I don't support either party. I dislike both candidates for different reasons. I voted libertian in 2016 but I have decided to branch away from wasting my vote and I voted for one of the candidates in one of the largest swing states. I consulted with many of those and I believe as a collective group we all went this route voting for this person.

The only way American will pull itself back together and move forward is if we can meet in the middle. American once had that 20+ years ago and we were prospering. Now it's become a power grab and control for both parties. If this does not change, we're in for some dark days ahead. People don't necessarily see the longterm outlook this election brings but America is very vulnerable right now and if we don't get ourselves back in the right direction, America as we once knew it will be a shell of its former self.

As someone who isn't a supporter of either party and dislikes both candidates with a passion, it ultimately came down to policies for me. Both sides have pros and cons. Both sides are fear mongering. Both parties are corrupt. Both parties are manipulating their voters. Ultimately in the end I advise people to do your research, look at their policies, think longterm not just shortterm and make a decision once you're confident that candidate can better your life.

Yep.

[dice]

He is ok enough in the sense that the anti-trump sentiment can get him into office, but I disliked him as a VP choice and dislike him more as a Presidential candidate. I think over the 4 years the DNC could have done better, even though they were planning 4 years ago to be working on a re-election campaign for Hilary. They still should have had someone stronger than Biden in the wings. I get that milquetoast is a strategy against the boisterous Trump, but I do not like it. I get the are going the safest route they can and this is simply a numbers game but man oh man if I am not clicking my heels over Biden.

i agree with most of that, but to be clear, the DNC did not anoint biden. he was even in dire straits cash wise at times. nobody rallied around him until is became clear that the mainstream democratic voter preferred him. significantly

lol, he was dead in the water until Clyburn endorsed him. Then that gave him SC and everybody dropped out and endorsed him.

he destroyed bernie in SC and it was all over 3 days later when VOTERS gave him 11 of the 15 states on super tuesday (even with bloomberg siphoning off a considerable chunk of his votes). he ended up doubling bernie's nationwide popular vote total (even though the race was over early and bernie supporters are much more passionate and thus much more likely to cast a meaningless vote). complete landslide

the more moderate wing of the party (joe, pete, amy) and the more liberal wing (bernie, liz) split votes pretty evenly in the first 3 states, but the moderates got 60% of the vote in SC and consolidated behind the obvious frontrunner

[PlayerUp]

taxes are not going to be massively raised on ANYbody. that's just not a political reality. if biden wins the presidency and the dems take the senate, i anticipate the top rates going back to the obama levels

Eisenhower had the highest top bracket taxes seen in the US and that was one of the larges growth periods seen and helped build the middle class. When the people have money to spend, they buy the stuff those billionaires produce, broke Americans not so much.

The more money is constantly flowing, the more economic growth takes place. Billionaires and the super rich don't spend their fortunes. They invest and grow their fortunes but the money doesn't ultimately move anywhere.

Without taxes and etc, that money just stagnates. The middle class and etc needs to grow again.

I think nationwide most of the US citizens agree with all of this. The problem is finding middle grounds. Over taxing them will not work.

[dice]

Only the outspoken well known billionaires have said they maybe okay with this. The bulk of them are not. Take Paul Singer for example. Horrible person but as soon as they massively raise taxes, he'll flee the US. Wealth goes to other countries. I expect most go this route.

taxes are not going to be massively raised on ANYbody. that's just not a political reality. if biden wins the presidency and the dems take the senate, i anticipate the top rates going back to the obama levels

Eisenhower had the highest top bracket taxes seen in the US and that was one of the larges growth periods seen and helped build the middle class. When the people have money to spend, they buy the stuff those billionaires produce, broke Americans not so much.

eh...the nominal rates were exorbitant but the effective rates were much lower. still, you're correct that rates have to be really damn high to have a significant adverse effect on growth

[musiqsoulchild]

Eisenhower had the highest top bracket taxes seen in the US and that was one of the larges growth periods seen and helped build the middle class. When the people have money to spend, they buy the stuff those billionaires produce, broke Americans not so much.

The more money is constantly flowing, the more economic growth takes place. Billionaires and the super rich don't spend their fortunes. They invest and grow their fortunes but the money doesn't ultimately move anywhere.

Without taxes and etc, that money just stagnates. The middle class and etc needs to grow again.

I think nationwide most of the US citizens agree with all of this. The problem is finding middle grounds. Over taxing them will not work.

You want to start finding middle ground again?

Vote for Biden.

[Pax for Prez]

Tomorrow the 3 states to watch are Florida, North Carolina and Arizona. They will have most of all their mail in ballots counted (been counting for weeks) as well as in person. If Trump loses any of these states it makes it difficult for him to win.

Other states will not have enough of their mail in counted yet. Some like Pennsylvania will not have counties start counting mail in voting until Nov. 4th.

[2018C3]

Biden is a solid enough candidate. He's too old. That's about the only glaring negative for the guy.

I get not being blown away by the guy, but there's no way he's a bottom tier candidate.

Biden seems mentally slow and infirm. He doesn't in any way shape or form seem fit to be the leader of our nation.

It's funny, we have an age minimum for all of our political offices, I think an age maximum would actually be far more appropriate. Especially with how fast society changes now, we'd probably be better served these days having no one over 55 in allowed to hold political office. At this point in our history, experience can actually a detriment in many cases because things have changed so much that your past experience is often no longer relevant. To the point that it is valuable, most recent experience is most valuable, and I find it unlikely that experience after 15 years in the work force is really that valuable at all.

Fun fact:

Whoever wins this upcoming election, will be our oldest elected president ever. Regan Held the previous record when he was elected for a 2nd term at the age of 73. Trump is currently 74, and Biden is 77.

Throughout US history the median age of a elected president has been 55. Both of these candidates are fairly old as far as presidents go.

[MrFortune3]

Eisenhower had the highest top bracket taxes seen in the US and that was one of the larges growth periods seen and helped build the middle class. When the people have money to spend, they buy the stuff those billionaires produce, broke Americans not so much.

The more money is constantly flowing, the more economic growth takes place. Billionaires and the super rich don't spend their fortunes. They invest and grow their fortunes but the money doesn't ultimately move anywhere.

Without taxes and etc, that money just stagnates. The middle class and etc needs to grow again.

I think nationwide most of the US citizens agree with all of this. The problem is finding middle grounds. Over taxing them will not work.

A lot of that has to do with a splintering of ideals. Almost no one agrees on the way forward anymore.
I also think there is too much bipartisanship in politics right now. Stop trying to win for your party and do the right thing for Americans.

[PlayerUp]

The more money is constantly flowing, the more economic growth takes place. Billionaires and the super rich don't spend their fortunes. They invest and grow their fortunes but the money doesn't ultimately move anywhere.

Without taxes and etc, that money just stagnates. The middle class and etc needs to grow again.

I think nationwide most of the US citizens agree with all of this. The problem is finding middle grounds. Over taxing them will not work.

You want to start finding middle ground again?

Vote for Biden.

You need a change in leadership in the house and senate as well. Trumps approval rating ironically is far higher than Nanci (35%), Chuck (26%) and Mitch (32%).

[Susan]

i agree with most of that, but to be clear, the DNC did not anoint biden. he was even in dire straits cash wise at times. nobody rallied around him until is became clear that the mainstream democratic voter preferred him. significantly

lol, he was dead in the water until Clyburn endorsed him. Then that gave him SC and everybody dropped out and endorsed him.

he destroyed bernie in SC and it was all over 3 days later when VOTERS gave him 11 of the 15 states on super tuesday (even with bloomberg siphoning off a considerable chunk of his votes). he ended up doubling bernie's nationwide popular vote total (even though the race was over early and bernie supporters are much more passionate and thus much more likely to cast a meaningless vote). complete landslide

the more moderate wing of the party (joe, pete, amy) and the more liberal wing (bernie, liz) split votes pretty evenly in the first 3 states, but the moderates got 60% of the vote in SC and consolidated behind the obvious frontrunner

And Bernie destroyed Biden in Nevada.

The endorsements changed the primaries, saying the DNC had nothing to do with the endorsements is absurd. Obama literally talked to Pete the day he dropped out.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/485503-obama-spoke-with-buttigieg-after-he-dropped-out-of-2020-race-report

[2018C3]

I believe the system in place has enough checks and balances, that whoever wins life will change very little for the average American. People will continue to complain about things, but I hope which ever party looses will realize that America has made its choice going forward, and start acting like grown ups again.

I do not believe either case is a doom days sentence. Both candidates have there own strengths and flaws despite having different opinions. I'm just ready to go with the flow, and will try to support whoever America chooses. This does not mean I will personally agree with every policy made, but that I will try to understand why. In just 4 more years another choice will be made.

Its not worth my time to stress over things I don't control. Time could be spent much more productively.

[TheStig]

I will also say that this election is the most depressing one of my life. There was more talk over who is a crook, theif and liar than actually substantive policy debate. As fat as I can tell, the only real thing they separate on outside of identity politics is taxes. No one has a real economic, recovery or health care plan.

a public option added to obamacare (which is what biden is proposing) is about as real a health care proposal as you're gonna get. medicare for all who want it. would rapidly shrink the private insurance market. a true game changer. it amazes me that the starry eyed far left can't understand that

As Joe would say..... "Common mannnnn"

From what he described on the last debate, it would be given like Medcaid, not for our purchase. And to be fair, didn't we already try that 12 years ago before his predecessor bent to the Insurance companies? I can't see corporate Joe shrinking the insurance market or being a game changer. You got the wrong guy. Bernie was out months ago.

[musiqsoulchild]

I think nationwide most of the US citizens agree with all of this. The problem is finding middle grounds. Over taxing them will not work.

You want to start finding middle ground again?

Vote for Biden.

You need a change in leadership in the house and senate as well. Trumps approval rating ironically is far higher than Nanci (35%), Chuck (26%) and Mitch (32%).

House of Representatives is largely inconsequential in modern American politics.

They have been playing the role of blocking as a way to keep Republican power in the Senate under check.

Guess where all of this comes from?

From the 2 Senators per State rule. Its inherently un-democratic. And is a relic that is a direct remnant of pre-Civil war craziness.

Also, we get what we deserve.

Let's not pretend that WE are not the problem here. 45 percent of the country will go to war for Trumpism.

Thats who WE are. I dont look at those people as different to me. They are my neighbors. My friends. And in some cases, family members. And they are as representative of me as I am of them.

We ALL need to examine this version of democracy that we have become a lot closer.

[TheStig]

i agree with most of that, but to be clear, the DNC did not anoint biden. he was even in dire straits cash wise at times. nobody rallied around him until is became clear that the mainstream democratic voter preferred him. significantly

lol, he was dead in the water until Clyburn endorsed him. Then that gave him SC and everybody dropped out and endorsed him.

he destroyed bernie in SC and it was all over 3 days later when VOTERS gave him 11 of the 15 states on super tuesday (even with bloomberg siphoning off a considerable chunk of his votes). he ended up doubling bernie's nationwide popular vote total (even though the race was over early and bernie supporters are much more passionate and thus much more likely to cast a meaningless vote). complete landslide

the more moderate wing of the party (joe, pete, amy) and the more liberal wing (bernie, liz) split votes pretty evenly in the first 3 states, but the moderates got 60% of the vote in SC and consolidated behind the obvious frontrunner

Everyone knew Joe was going to win SC. That was no surprise.

Don't get me started on the BS of all the moderates dropping out but Warren hanging in their despite the face she wasn't outperforming the other moderates. DNC shenanigans all over again.

[TheStig]

I think nationwide most of the US citizens agree with all of this. The problem is finding middle grounds. Over taxing them will not work.

You want to start finding middle ground again?

Vote for Biden.

You need a change in leadership in the house and senate as well. Trumps approval rating ironically is far higher than Nanci (35%), Chuck (26%) and Mitch (32%).

There needs to be a fundamental change of how they approach money in politics, lobbyists, the disconnect of congress from people and how the rich pay taxes.