I'm not sure what direction this team is headed in.

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

How the hell do I know what trades or free agents are realistic for this team? I'm not on the phones with other GM's and player agents. Stop coming at me with that question because its not realistic. Thats not my job, I'm a fan. I watch the team and hope for success. All I'm doing is hoping for us to get better and not doing anything is not getting better. I'm not pushing for anything specific or expecting a total overhaul. I actually like many of the players on the team. I'm just disappointed in the front office not already having a vision for this team if they really need to see and evaluate these players still. I guess I'll just have to be patient. I think I'm more upset that some of you fans are ok with it over the actual inactivity itself.

Sounds like you would still be pissed if the moves didn't live up to your expectations.

Where did it say I would be pissed?

And of course I would be upset. I want this team to do well. What is going on here?

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

So we're giving credit to our front office for just not doing what the previous front office did. Sounds like an easy job, where do I apply lol.

Ok to get back to the topic, I guess I understand now that our direction is not tanking, its not winning, its strictly an evaluation period for our new front office to catch up with us on our players. Got it.

[kingkirk]

The team is headed toward the crossroads, one that's going to be determined within the next few months.

I think this was always the likely outcome, and I'm not sure why some are surprised tbh.

[fleet]

What would you have wanted them to do? Which positions and players would you want them to target? To essentially say they are wrong for wanting to watch and evaluate these players with their own eyes and under a new coach is baffling.

Whats baffling is fans of this team being ok with them needing to evaluate them under a new coach and not improving the roster.

I'm not the GM, I'm not going to sit here and research all the moves we could make, thats what they get paid for. I just want any hint that they want to improve this team. I have seen enough of the players we have to know we need to make moves to improve. Even just take out the trash and collect some future assets and I'll be ok with that. Just do something to improve the team, thats their job. I'm just a fan with an opinion, right or wrong.

What’s baffling is your inability to see that AK had made amazing moves in the past with his old team and clearly wants to analyze his roster under a REAL coach. Jim Boylen is a clown. The past regime is a joke for putting Boylen in that role. The worst coach I’ve ever seen. You can NOT trust any of the production of the players under that joke of a strategy with that awful leadership. After AK gets a grip on that he will make moves accordingly.

You don’t just make moves for the sake of making moves. There are ZERO free agents available this year that I want them to sign to anything more than a one year deal. There are ZERO players I want the Bulls to sell low on without seeing them under a real coach and a real leader. The only player I’d be okay with dealing for the right haul is Lavine but even he deserves a shot under a real coach and he is also on an amazing value contract that the Bulls can trade for something at the deadline if they see fit.

Everything AK has NOT done is what gives me hope that we are finally in the right direction.

A good way to torpedo a team’s buy-in for the coach and organization is to tear the foundation out while they are enthused about beginning the season. They will understand isolated moves for the long haul, but the timing and circumstances have to be right. That time is not now. Also, you want to project stability in a year before you will have room for a max player after the season. You are still selling the organization for a player to be named later

[Southpaw]

What realistic trades / FA signing that would've clearly improved the team are out there? I don't want another Young/Satoransky situation where we sign win now vet players for multiple years, medium sized deals that would just eat at our 2021 cap space.

I get wanting to see improvement immediately but it's unrealistic at this point because our young payers have so much question marks around them after playing under Boylen for 2 seasons. I'm guessing other teams are low balling the Bulls on offers thinking they can rehabilitate our young players under their system. That's why the wait and see approach is cool to me.If we're still trotting out the same core/lineup next season, then I'd agree that it's time to complain.

How the hell do I know what trades or free agents are realistic for this team? I'm not on the phones with other GM's and player agents. Stop coming at me with that question because its not realistic. Thats not my job, I'm a fan. I watch the team and hope for success. All I'm doing is hoping for us to get better and not doing anything is not getting better. I'm not pushing for anything specific or expecting a total overhaul. I actually like many of the players on the team. I'm just disappointed in the front office not already having a vision for this team if they really need to see and evaluate these players still. I guess I'll just have to be patient. I think I'm more upset that some of you fans are ok with it over the actual inactivity itself.

C'mon man, you don't really believe the bolded part do you? I mean, how can AKME land a highly respected coach like Donovan if they didn't sell him on their vision for the team. The team already did their move by overhauling the entire coaching staff down to the developmental coaches, the results of it would just take time. I don't get the rush in making a move now when almost everyone agrees that our players development was hampered by playing under Boylen and evaluating them under a different and better coach/system is the smart move. Yeah, we really have to be patient for now.

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

What realistic trades / FA signing that would've clearly improved the team are out there? I don't want another Young/Satoransky situation where we sign win now vet players for multiple years, medium sized deals that would just eat at our 2021 cap space.

I get wanting to see improvement immediately but it's unrealistic at this point because our young payers have so much question marks around them after playing under Boylen for 2 seasons. I'm guessing other teams are low balling the Bulls on offers thinking they can rehabilitate our young players under their system. That's why the wait and see approach is cool to me.If we're still trotting out the same core/lineup next season, then I'd agree that it's time to complain.

How the hell do I know what trades or free agents are realistic for this team? I'm not on the phones with other GM's and player agents. Stop coming at me with that question because its not realistic. Thats not my job, I'm a fan. I watch the team and hope for success. All I'm doing is hoping for us to get better and not doing anything is not getting better. I'm not pushing for anything specific or expecting a total overhaul. I actually like many of the players on the team. I'm just disappointed in the front office not already having a vision for this team if they really need to see and evaluate these players still. I guess I'll just have to be patient. I think I'm more upset that some of you fans are ok with it over the actual inactivity itself.

C'mon man, you don't really believe the bolded part do you? I mean, how can AKME land a highly respected coach like Donovan if they didn't sell him on their vision for the team. The team already did their move by overhauling the entire coaching staff down to the developmental coaches, the results of it would just take time. I don't get the rush in making a move now when almost everyone agrees that our players development was hampered by playing under Boylen and evaluating them under a different and better coach/system is the smart move. Yeah, we really have to be patient for now.

Well if you still need to "evaluate" players then yeah lol.

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

Whats baffling is fans of this team being ok with them needing to evaluate them under a new coach and not improving the roster.

I'm not the GM, I'm not going to sit here and research all the moves we could make, thats what they get paid for. I just want any hint that they want to improve this team. I have seen enough of the players we have to know we need to make moves to improve. Even just take out the trash and collect some future assets and I'll be ok with that. Just do something to improve the team, thats their job. I'm just a fan with an opinion, right or wrong.

What’s baffling is your inability to see that AK had made amazing moves in the past with his old team and clearly wants to analyze his roster under a REAL coach. Jim Boylen is a clown. The past regime is a joke for putting Boylen in that role. The worst coach I’ve ever seen. You can NOT trust any of the production of the players under that joke of a strategy with that awful leadership. After AK gets a grip on that he will make moves accordingly.

You don’t just make moves for the sake of making moves. There are ZERO free agents available this year that I want them to sign to anything more than a one year deal. There are ZERO players I want the Bulls to sell low on without seeing them under a real coach and a real leader. The only player I’d be okay with dealing for the right haul is Lavine but even he deserves a shot under a real coach and he is also on an amazing value contract that the Bulls can trade for something at the deadline if they see fit.

Everything AK has NOT done is what gives me hope that we are finally in the right direction.

A good way to torpedo a team’s buy-in for the coach and organization is to tear the foundation out while they are enthused about beginning the season. They will understand isolated moves for the long haul, but the timing and circumstances have to be right. That time is not now. Also, you want to project stability in a year before you will have room for a max player after the season. You are still selling the organization for a player to be named later

This is a good point. Thanks for opening my eyes to this point of view. Definitely makes more sense to me now.

[Southpaw]

How the hell do I know what trades or free agents are realistic for this team? I'm not on the phones with other GM's and player agents. Stop coming at me with that question because its not realistic. Thats not my job, I'm a fan. I watch the team and hope for success. All I'm doing is hoping for us to get better and not doing anything is not getting better. I'm not pushing for anything specific or expecting a total overhaul. I actually like many of the players on the team. I'm just disappointed in the front office not already having a vision for this team if they really need to see and evaluate these players still. I guess I'll just have to be patient. I think I'm more upset that some of you fans are ok with it over the actual inactivity itself.

C'mon man, you don't really believe the bolded part do you? I mean, how can AKME land a highly respected coach like Donovan if they didn't sell him on their vision for the team. The team already did their move by overhauling the entire coaching staff down to the developmental coaches, the results of it would just take time. I don't get the rush in making a move now when almost everyone agrees that our players development was hampered by playing under Boylen and evaluating them under a different and better coach/system is the smart move. Yeah, we really have to be patient for now.

Well if you still need to "evaluate" players then yeah lol.

What's wrong with that?

[fleet]

What’s baffling is your inability to see that AK had made amazing moves in the past with his old team and clearly wants to analyze his roster under a REAL coach. Jim Boylen is a clown. The past regime is a joke for putting Boylen in that role. The worst coach I’ve ever seen. You can NOT trust any of the production of the players under that joke of a strategy with that awful leadership. After AK gets a grip on that he will make moves accordingly.

You don’t just make moves for the sake of making moves. There are ZERO free agents available this year that I want them to sign to anything more than a one year deal. There are ZERO players I want the Bulls to sell low on without seeing them under a real coach and a real leader. The only player I’d be okay with dealing for the right haul is Lavine but even he deserves a shot under a real coach and he is also on an amazing value contract that the Bulls can trade for something at the deadline if they see fit.

Everything AK has NOT done is what gives me hope that we are finally in the right direction.

A good way to torpedo a team’s buy-in for the coach and organization is to tear the foundation out while they are enthused about beginning the season. They will understand isolated moves for the long haul, but the timing and circumstances have to be right. That time is not now. Also, you want to project stability in a year before you will have room for a max player after the season. You are still selling the organization for a player to be named later

This is a good point. Thanks for opening my eyes to this point of view. Definitely makes more sense to me now.

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

C'mon man, you don't really believe the bolded part do you? I mean, how can AKME land a highly respected coach like Donovan if they didn't sell him on their vision for the team. The team already did their move by overhauling the entire coaching staff down to the developmental coaches, the results of it would just take time. I don't get the rush in making a move now when almost everyone agrees that our players development was hampered by playing under Boylen and evaluating them under a different and better coach/system is the smart move. Yeah, we really have to be patient for now.

Well if you still need to "evaluate" players then yeah lol.

What's wrong with that?

Nonsense. They should know more about these players than we do already without having them for a season. Coach should know who fits his system without having to see the player in the system first. I already heard what makes more sense so don't try to convince me

[Southpaw]

Well if you still need to "evaluate" players then yeah lol.

What's wrong with that?

Nonsense. They should know more about these players than we do already without having them for a season. Coach should know who fits his system without having to see the player in the system first. I already heard what makes more sense so don't try to convince me

Yeah right. Our players are already finished products so it's "nonsense" to see how they'd perform under different leadership and make smart, calculated decisions after the fact. Gotcha!

[IliketheBullsNBearstoo]

What's wrong with that?

Nonsense. They should know more about these players than we do already without having them for a season. Coach should know who fits his system without having to see the player in the system first. I already heard what makes more sense so don't try to convince me

Yeah right. Our players are already finished products so it's "nonsense" to see how they'd perform under different leadership and make smart, calculated decisions after the fact. Gotcha!

Look, that statement alone isn't acceptable for me. For a new GM to just hire a new coach and say lets see how the last GM's roster does under the new coach, even if that coach was in way over his head, but its not like he was the only coach they didn't show consistency with. Anyways, I understand now what the direction is, don't try to steer me another direction lol.

Oh and regarding the finished products statements, I know some of these kids can develop some more. But theres some fit issues that I have and it may only be my opinion. I will state one of them because I don't want to get into any back & forths about them and go off topic but I personally don't like Lauri and Wendell together. I don't think its a good fit. On top of that I've seen teams make some crazy moves, you tell me we can't unload Sato or Thad to one of those dumb teams? Anyways let the evaluating begin!!!

[TeamMan]

I'm really struggling to understand the direction this new front office is trying to take the Bulls in.

The Billy Donovan hiring signaled that this is not a rebuilding year, but the draft was definitely a rebuild type one. Listen, Williams may turn into a good player, but If we needed someone to contribute right away with a bright future, I really think Deni Avdija would have covered all those bases.

If we aren't rebuilding, then I kind of understand not trying to move Lavine or Lauri, but if we are trying to compete why the hell did we spend money on bringing Denzel Valentine back? Why spend money on a locker room guy in Garrett Temple? I understand the financial and roster limitations, but it's a hard pill to swallow when other teams with similar issues ARE making significant win now moves (Lakers).

Like I said before, I will fully trust this FO for one year before I make any harsh judgments, but man are they really making it hard right now.

Some points...

- There is a difference between building for a championship and building to make the playoffs. You don't go from not making the playoffs to expecting to win the NBA championship the next year.

- We have to remember what the "Free" in Free Agency means. It means that the players get to choose which team they will play for. So, at this point in time the best FAs are not going to pick the Bulls if they want to win a NBA championship. 1st the Bulls have to show as an organization (FO and ownership) that their goal is to win a championship, and that will take some years.

- The Bulls were not the only team interested in Williams, and if the Bulls had not taken him he probably would not have lasted long after the #4 pick.

- IMO one of the most important skills of a FO is being able to project if a player has the potential to be an All Star at some point in his career, then making the necessary decision/moves to get that player. AK, in his interview after the draft, basically said that this time it was easy form him because he only had to choose 4 players to go on his draft board. And obviously Deni was not one of those 4 players. And we have to trust that Williams has the potential to become an All Star as projected by AK and his staff.

- The Bulls have a core that they believe in (IMO Zach, Coby, Lauri, WCJ and OPJ) and they are going to allow Donovan to take that core and prove that they are worth the commitment. If for whatever reason it doesn't work, then AK will make the changes that he thinks are necessary. We have to give him that freedom if he's going to turn the Bulls' situation around.

What you're talking about is unprecedented. Save for a team with a bona fide superstar (which is plainly not us), there has never been a complete change of management where the new management came in and believed in the core they inherited. That's stupid on its face. The old core is the one that got GarPax fired. AK would have to be a complete idiot to believe in it.

I'll ignore the abusive language this time (it's not needed to make a valid argument) because I want to attempt to present some counter arguments:

- In his 1st interview AK specifically stated that he was happy with most of the players on the team. And he even went so far as to say that Gar/Pax had made some good decisions/choices in building the team. IMO the fact that he hasn't made any significant trades also indicates that he is happy with most of the roster. This is important, because his past history has shown that he has no hesitation to make trades if he feels that he's unhappy with the roster.

- In his 1st interview Donovan actually listed some players that he thought were good young talents (starting with Coby and including Lauri and WCJ). He did not mention Zach or OPJ most likely because he did not consider them "young".

- I listed 5 players that IMO will be starters. That's our core, and basically leaves everyone else as support/role players off the bench.

- There have been endless arguments made about how hopeless Boylen was as a coach. And the players (or their agents) were releasing/leaking statements basically saying that Boylen didn't know what he was doing. So, having a bad coach does not necessarily mean that you have a bad core. That's why Boylen was fired.

- Why were Gar/Pax fired? - During the off season of 2019 JR released/leaked a statement that he was very unhappy that the Bulls did not make the playoffs and his 1st priority was to get the team back to the playoffs. IMO that was a backhanded declaration that Gar/Pax were being given an ultimatum to get back to the playoffs. However, many posters at that time said that it was NOT an ultimatum, but JR didn't even wait until the season was officially over before he fired them.

-

[sco]

Some points...

- There is a difference between building for a championship and building to make the playoffs. You don't go from not making the playoffs to expecting to win the NBA championship the next year.

- We have to remember what the "Free" in Free Agency means. It means that the players get to choose which team they will play for. So, at this point in time the best FAs are not going to pick the Bulls if they want to win a NBA championship. 1st the Bulls have to show as an organization (FO and ownership) that their goal is to win a championship, and that will take some years.

- The Bulls were not the only team interested in Williams, and if the Bulls had not taken him he probably would not have lasted long after the #4 pick.

- IMO one of the most important skills of a FO is being able to project if a player has the potential to be an All Star at some point in his career, then making the necessary decision/moves to get that player. AK, in his interview after the draft, basically said that this time it was easy form him because he only had to choose 4 players to go on his draft board. And obviously Deni was not one of those 4 players. And we have to trust that Williams has the potential to become an All Star as projected by AK and his staff.

- The Bulls have a core that they believe in (IMO Zach, Coby, Lauri, WCJ and OPJ) and they are going to allow Donovan to take that core and prove that they are worth the commitment. If for whatever reason it doesn't work, then AK will make the changes that he thinks are necessary. We have to give him that freedom if he's going to turn the Bulls' situation around.

What you're talking about is unprecedented. Save for a team with a bona fide superstar (which is plainly not us), there has never been a complete change of management where the new management came in and believed in the core they inherited. That's stupid on its face. The old core is the one that got GarPax fired. AK would have to be a complete idiot to believe in it.

I'll ignore the abusive language this time (it's not needed to make a valid argument) because I want to attempt to present some counter arguments:

- In his 1st interview AK specifically stated that he was happy with most of the players on the team. And he even went so far as to say that Gar/Pax had made some good decisions/choices in building the team. IMO the fact that he hasn't made any significant trades also indicates that he is happy with most of the roster. This is important, because his past history has shown that he has no hesitation to make trades if he feels that he's unhappy with the roster.

- In his 1st interview Donovan actually listed some players that he thought were good young talents (starting with Coby and including Lauri and WCJ). He did not mention Zach or OPJ most likely because he did not consider them "young".

- I listed 5 players that IMO will be starters. That's our core, and basically leaves everyone else as support/role players off the bench.

- There have been endless arguments made about how hopeless Boylen was as a coach. And the players (or their agents) were releasing/leaking statements basically saying that Boylen didn't know what he was doing. So, having a bad coach does not necessarily mean that you have a bad core. That's why Boylen was fired.

- Why were Gar/Pax fired? - During the off season of 2019 JR released/leaked a statement that he was very unhappy that the Bulls did not make the playoffs and his 1st priority was to get the team back to the playoffs. IMO that was a backhanded declaration that Gar/Pax were being given an ultimatum to get back to the playoffs. However, many posters at that time said that it was NOT an ultimatum, but JR didn't even wait until the season was officially over before he fired them.

-

Good points!

Also, I want to remind folks that the main reason this team (who I think talent-wise last year was a .500 team) has been one of the most injury bitten teams over the past 2 years. That alone killed chemistry, morale, while regularly trotting guys like Felicio out there most nights.

If there was a big move, it was changing out the training staff who were complicit in guys like Lauri going all body builder and having WC bulk up.

Also, many here are acting like there should be blanket policy moves like trade everyone or keep the core. AK will look at guys on a person/situation basis. IMO, the only big decision was whether to dump Lauri for whatever they could get now (probably less than most think) or see if he has upside to his game. Not that it was the main consideration, but drafting PWill gives them a bit of an insurance policy at PF.

[cjbulls]

The problem always is when you take the time to figure out “what you have”, the rest of the league does too. So if you know you’re out on a guy, better to move them now when the value is inflated by uncertainty (Boylen and FO actually helping in that regard).

If Lauri plays like last year out of the gates, he will have essentially zero value on the trade market. Similar concerns exist for WCJ. With that said, it’s extremely difficult to acquire young talent so I understand the decision here.

[sco]

The problem always is when you take the time to figure out “what you have”, the rest of the league does too. So if you know you’re out on a guy, better to move them now when the value is inflated by uncertainty (Boylen and FO actually helping in that regard).

If Lauri plays like last year out of the gates, he will have essentially zero value on the trade market. Similar concerns exist for WCJ. With that said, it’s extremely difficult to acquire young talent so I understand the decision here.

I can flip it the other way, other than Zach, I don't think that anyone would nab you much in return if traded during the offseason. So for Lauri, the trade-off IMO was trading him now for either another young guy who has underperformed or a non-lotto draft pick - i.e. a 4th quartile starter/role player. Keeping him, you have a chance to see if he can be a 2nd quartile starter, which will either be a good guy to keep or a guy who has more trade value at the deadline.

[cjbulls]

The problem always is when you take the time to figure out “what you have”, the rest of the league does too. So if you know you’re out on a guy, better to move them now when the value is inflated by uncertainty (Boylen and FO actually helping in that regard).

If Lauri plays like last year out of the gates, he will have essentially zero value on the trade market. Similar concerns exist for WCJ. With that said, it’s extremely difficult to acquire young talent so I understand the decision here.

I can flip it the other way, other than Zach, I don't think that anyone would nab you much in return if traded during the offseason. So for Lauri, the trade-off IMO was trading him now for either another young guy who has underperformed or a non-lotto draft pick - i.e. a 4th quartile starter/role player. Keeping him, you have a chance to see if he can be a 2nd quartile starter, which will either be a good guy to keep or a guy who has more trade value at the deadline.

That is a good point, my comments comes from my pessimism around Lauri. It feels like they have less than a 50% chance of winning the Lauri gamble based on this set of outcomes.

-If he underperforms, you get nothing from him and likely let him walk next year.
-If he performs average, you’re paying him $20 million+ and praying he continues putting things together.
-If he has a great year, some team is giving him a max offer that you’ll need to match. Then you’ll have to decide based on the one year plus all the inconsistent history. Given that non-title teams can generally only have two max players, are you hitching your wagon to Zach and Lauri? Letting Zach go?

There is definitely a world where it all works out, but a lot of land mines on that path. That feels like quite a needle to thread.

[JimmyButler21]

I'm beyond thrilled that GarPax is gone but people have wayyyy too much faith in the current front office that has accomplished nothing yet. And I was a fan of the AK hiring, he still has to prove it for me to buy in.

[sco]

The problem always is when you take the time to figure out “what you have”, the rest of the league does too. So if you know you’re out on a guy, better to move them now when the value is inflated by uncertainty (Boylen and FO actually helping in that regard).

If Lauri plays like last year out of the gates, he will have essentially zero value on the trade market. Similar concerns exist for WCJ. With that said, it’s extremely difficult to acquire young talent so I understand the decision here.

I can flip it the other way, other than Zach, I don't think that anyone would nab you much in return if traded during the offseason. So for Lauri, the trade-off IMO was trading him now for either another young guy who has underperformed or a non-lotto draft pick - i.e. a 4th quartile starter/role player. Keeping him, you have a chance to see if he can be a 2nd quartile starter, which will either be a good guy to keep or a guy who has more trade value at the deadline.

That is a good point, my comments comes from my pessimism around Lauri. It feels like they have less than a 50% chance of winning the Lauri gamble based on this set of outcomes.

-If he underperforms, you get nothing from him and likely let him walk next year.
-If he performs average, you’re paying him $20 million+ and praying he continues putting things together.
-If he has a great year, some team is giving him a max offer that you’ll need to match. Then you’ll have to decide based on the one year plus all the inconsistent history. Given that non-title teams can generally only have two max players, are you hitching your wagon to Zach and Lauri? Letting Zach go?

There is definitely a world where it all works out, but a lot of land mines on that path. That feels like quite a needle to thread.

You can look at it like the cost of finding out that you don't want to spend $20M+ per year on an "average starter talent" Lauri is losing out on a guy who would be likely be replaceable for a guy you could nab for $10M per year in FA, and by taking that risk, there is a chance you end up keeping a guy who is an allstar (which you likely won't be able to nab in FA).

[ZOMG]

The problem always is when you take the time to figure out “what you have”, the rest of the league does too. So if you know you’re out on a guy, better to move them now when the value is inflated by uncertainty (Boylen and FO actually helping in that regard).

If Lauri plays like last year out of the gates, he will have essentially zero value on the trade market. Similar concerns exist for WCJ. With that said, it’s extremely difficult to acquire young talent so I understand the decision here.

I can flip it the other way, other than Zach, I don't think that anyone would nab you much in return if traded during the offseason. So for Lauri, the trade-off IMO was trading him now for either another young guy who has underperformed or a non-lotto draft pick - i.e. a 4th quartile starter/role player. Keeping him, you have a chance to see if he can be a 2nd quartile starter, which will either be a good guy to keep or a guy who has more trade value at the deadline.

That is a good point, my comments comes from my pessimism around Lauri. It feels like they have less than a 50% chance of winning the Lauri gamble based on this set of outcomes.

-If he underperforms, you get nothing from him and likely let him walk next year.
-If he performs average, you’re paying him $20 million+ and praying he continues putting things together.
-If he has a great year, some team is giving him a max offer that you’ll need to match. Then you’ll have to decide based on the one year plus all the inconsistent history. Given that non-title teams can generally only have two max players, are you hitching your wagon to Zach and Lauri? Letting Zach go?

There is definitely a world where it all works out, but a lot of land mines on that path. That feels like quite a needle to thread.

If Bogdan (a clearly superior player at the trendiest NBA position) can only get 18 mil, I don't think there's much danger of Lauri getting 20.

If he has an average/pretty good year, I see him being a 15mil guy.