Lonzo Ball Thread (UPDATE: Bulls Offer Sato + 2nd Round picks)

[Kukoc-Lauri]

Let's not jump off the Coby White train just yet. Obviously we're still figuring out if he's a future CJ McCollum/Jamal Murray type of guard or if he's more of a Jason Terry/Jamal Crawford type of player. Obviously, either type of player holds tremendous value (as long as he can become a more consistent shooter). One mistake with his development, IMO, is that we don't have a veteran point guard to teach him the ropes. I'm sure Mo Cheeks has been in his ear, but I wish we had a DJ Augustin/Rajon Rondo type of guy to be in his ear about how to run an offense.

He is nowhere close to either Mccollumm,Crawford,L.Williams,Terry. He is closer to Eddie House,Damon Jones,Emanuel Mudiay,Theo Pinson, Beno Udrih type.

[TheSuzerain]

Let's not jump off the Coby White train just yet. Obviously we're still figuring out if he's a future CJ McCollum/Jamal Murray type of guard or if he's more of a Jason Terry/Jamal Crawford. Obviously, either type of player holds tremendous value (as long as he can become a more consistent shooter). One mistake with his development, IMO, is that we don't have a veteran point guard to teach him the ropes. I'm sure Mo Cheeks has been in his ear, but I wish we had a DJ Augustin/Rajon Rondo type of guy to show him how to run an offense.

lol those are certainly not the only 2 paths Coby can take. Coby being a bust is a very real possibility.

[HomoSapien]

Let's not jump off the Coby White train just yet. Obviously we're still figuring out if he's a future CJ McCollum/Jamal Murray type of guard or if he's more of a Jason Terry/Jamal Crawford type of player. Obviously, either type of player holds tremendous value (as long as he can become a more consistent shooter). One mistake with his development, IMO, is that we don't have a veteran point guard to teach him the ropes. I'm sure Mo Cheeks has been in his ear, but I wish we had a DJ Augustin/Rajon Rondo type of guy to be in his ear about how to run an offense.

He is nowhere close to either Mccollumm,Crawford,L.Williams,Terry. He is closer to Eddie House,Damon Jones,Emanuel Mudiay,Theo Pinson, Beno Udrih type.

I get that some of us don't like him and are frustrated, but he's a 20-year-old averaging 15, 6, and 5 and has shown an uncanny skill to score a ton of points in a short amount of time when he's on. You don't have to like him, but to say he's closer to Eddie House shows me that you have no intention of having an intellectually honest conversation.

lol those are certainly not the only 2 paths Coby can take. Coby being a bust is a very real possibility.

Lol, I wasn't trying to imply that those are the only two options. Could he bust? Sure. Does that seem like the likely outcome for Coby? Not to me. He's already shown that he a big scorer off the bench.

[kodo]

Since the team did a total Jekyll/Hyde from being an elite perimeter defensive team last year and one of the worst offense teams in the league, to the current version of one of the highest scoring teams in the league and the worst 3P defending team; Lonzo Ball similarly makes a ton of sense now where he didn't before.

He's not valued around the league as a PG because he's proven to be a terrible off-the-ball shooter, but he showed he can shoot off the catch last season and this season the Bulls need defense more than offense, which was the opposite of last year.

All comes down to price.

I don't think Coby is relevant one way or another, they are such different players with opposite skillsets.

[HomoSapien]

Since the team did a total Jekyll/Hyde from being an elite perimeter defensive team last year and one of the worst offense teams in the league, to the current version of one of the highest scoring teams in the league and the worst 3P defending team; Lonzo Ball similarly makes a ton of sense now where he didn't before.

He's not valued around the league as a PG because he's proven to be a terrible off-the-ball shooter, but he showed he can shoot off the catch last season and this season the Bulls need defense more than offense, which was the opposite of last year.

All comes down to price.

I don't think Coby is relevant one way or another, they are such different players with opposite skillsets.

That's how I feel. In a best-case scenario world, there's enough minutes for LaVine, White, and Ball since Ball can complement both guys and at times also play the 3. I've been low on Lonzo, partly because I want nothing to do with his dad but he's an upgrade defensively, a good passer, and an elite rebounder for a point guard (although not so much this year) which might actually be an underrated aspect to adding him since our front-court rebounding is so poor.

[TheSuzerain]

Let's not jump off the Coby White train just yet. Obviously we're still figuring out if he's a future CJ McCollum/Jamal Murray type of guard or if he's more of a Jason Terry/Jamal Crawford type of player. Obviously, either type of player holds tremendous value (as long as he can become a more consistent shooter). One mistake with his development, IMO, is that we don't have a veteran point guard to teach him the ropes. I'm sure Mo Cheeks has been in his ear, but I wish we had a DJ Augustin/Rajon Rondo type of guy to be in his ear about how to run an offense.

He is nowhere close to either Mccollumm,Crawford,L.Williams,Terry. He is closer to Eddie House,Damon Jones,Emanuel Mudiay,Theo Pinson, Beno Udrih type.

I get that some of us don't like him and are frustrated, but he's a 20-year-old averaging 15, 6, and 5 and has shown an uncanny skill to score a ton of points in a short amount of time when he's on. You don't have to like him, but to say he's closer to Eddie House shows me that you have no intention of having an intellectually honest conversation.

lol those are certainly not the only 2 paths Coby can take. Coby being a bust is a very real possibility.

Lol, I wasn't trying to imply that those are the only two options. Could he bust? Sure. Does that seem like the likely outcome for Coby? Not to me. He's already shown that he a big scorer off the bench.

He really hasn't shown that at all.

There's no value in scoring volume alone. Tony Wroten scored 17 points in 29 minutes per game at 21 years old. He washed out of the league shortly thereafter.

Coby is currently a negative player on both ends, and if that doesn't change he's a bust.

[netduri2]

I'm not reluctant to trade Coby at this point but you trade him for Lonzo? Hard pass.

a) Many people focus solely on his shooting struggle but his loose ball-handling is a much bigger problem. He can't create on halfcourt due to his lack of confidence when he drives the basket. He can't run PnR plays which Donovan love to use.

b) Some might call him a good defender. I think he's a smart defender too but he can't guard players who thrive on the perimeter. I know Coby is a terrible defender this year but trading for Lonzo doesn't fix our perimeter defense.

c) He'll be a restriced free agent this offseason. I don't think Coby can evolve into a legit passer in his career but he's still on a rookie contract for 2 years. I'd rather keep Coby then trade for players like Lonzo who have so many holes in his gams.

And you wanna trade Lauri or Coby or Wendell? Fine. But don't trade them for a player who doesn't make any difference.

This team's ceiling is so low at this point. I'd rather trade all the vets for future assets and if you trade our young guys you should trade them for future assets.

[Repeat 3-peat]

I think Lonzo is an ideal buy low prospect. I'd offer a top 12 protected 22' first rounder plus Felicio($$) for Ball. Though I love the idea of making it a bigger trade to acquire Steven Adams.

Ball is a flawed player as we all know, and isn't having the best of year but New Orleans as a team hasn't impressed much. They are a poorly coached team.

[HomoSapien]

He really hasn't shown that at all.

There's no value in scoring volume alone. Tony Wroten scored 17 points in 29 minutes per game at 21 years old. He washed out of the league shortly thereafter.

Coby is currently a negative player on both ends, and if that doesn't change he's a bust.

Respectfully, that's baloney. He's definitely shown signs of being able to score. How has he not? Dude was only the second rookie in franchise history to have back to back 30 point games. He averaged 26 ppg during his final 9 games before our season was unexpectedly haulted. The scoring potential is obvious unless you're purposely trying not to see it.

Tony Wroten isn't an apt example. Wroten was a late draft pick who was given the green light for a tanking 76ers team, and fell out of the league after tearing his ACL. Plus he couldn't shoot threes and as the league evolved into a shooters league his value plummeted.

I do agree that Coby currently is a negative player on both ends of the ball, but as a 20-year-old I'm okay with giving him time to learn. To put things in perspective, he's currently the age of a rookie Jamal Crawford and two years younger than a rookie Jason Terry. Both those guys came in raw and needed time to learn the NBA game. White's no different and is playing a completely different role than last season. Unless there's a great trade out there, we owe it to everyone involved to be patient.

[CobyWhite0]

He really hasn't shown that at all.

There's no value in scoring volume alone. Tony Wroten scored 17 points in 29 minutes per game at 21 years old. He washed out of the league shortly thereafter.

Coby is currently a negative player on both ends, and if that doesn't change he's a bust.

Respectfully, that's baloney. He's definitely shown signs of being able to score. How has he not? Dude was only the second rookie in franchise history to have back to back 30 point games. He averaged 26 ppg during his final 9 games before our season was unexpectedly haulted. The scoring potential is obvious unless you're purposely trying not to see it.

Tony Wroten isn't an apt example. Wroten was a late draft pick who was given the green light for a tanking 76ers team, and fell out of the league after tearing his ACL. Plus he couldn't shoot threes and as the league evolved into a shooters league his value plummeted.

I do agree that Coby currently is a negative player on both ends of the ball, but as a 20-year-old I'm okay with giving him time to learn. To put things in perspective, he's currently the age of a rookie Jamal Crawford and two years younger than a rookie Jason Terry. Both those guys came in raw and needed time to learn the NBA game. White's no different and is playing a completely different role than last season. Unless there's a great trade out there, we owe it to everyone involved to be patient.

Using the Wroten "logic", I hope Coby doesn't win MVP next year in his 3rd season after one year of college ball.

Derrick Rose was MVP in his 3rd season after one year of college ball, he made the All-Star team in season 4 and then never came remotely close to making another All-Star team.

I hope like hell that Coby doesn't peak in his 3rd season and then get progressively worse, like Rose did.

[The Box Office]

Marc Eversley should have drafted Tyrese Haliburton. And now we're here being mentioned in trades for Lonzo Ball, who is also not on the level of Hali. Hali is playing lights out right now. Impressive.

I had Tyrese Haliburton as the number one pick of the draft during the Summer and everyone disagreed with me here. Hali's latest game? He had 4 blocks, 2 steals, 16 points. Coming off the bench. Imagine him as the starter.

Their draft positioning, BEFORE THE DRAFT, is all BS. It doesn't matter what the TV talking heads say. Don't fall for it.

A random poster, who is scouting from his @ss and not getting paid a penny, is looking correct so far. AK and Marc are getting paid millions and looking like they messed up. Rookie Patrick Williams is looking meh right now. I can't believe we're here revisiting Lonzo Ball, who GarPax wanted for years.

If it's for Sato/Denzel Valentine straight up, ok fine, Sure. Absolutely.

[HomoSapien]

Marc Eversley should have drafted Tyrese Haliburton. And now we're here being mentioned in trades for Lonzo Ball, who is also not on the level of Hali. Hali is playing lights out right now. Impressive.

I had Tyrese Haliburton as the number one pick of the draft during the Summer and everyone disagreed with me here. Hali's latest game? He had 4 blocks, 2 steals, 16 points. Coming off the bench. Imagine him as the starter.

Their draft positioning, BEFORE THE DRAFT, is all BS. It doesn't matter what the TV talking heads say. Don't fall for it.

A random poster, who is scouting from his @ss and not getting paid a penny, is looking correct so far. AK and Marc are getting paid millions and looking like they messed up. Rookie Patrick Williams is looking meh right now. I can't believe we're here revisiting Lonzo Ball, who GarPax wanted for years.

If it's for Sato/Denzel Valentine straight up, ok fine, Sure. Absolutely.

I preferred Haliburton too, but 16 games into the season is awfully fast to be making a judgment.

[Chewie]

I had Tyrese Haliburton as the number one pick of the draft during the Summer and everyone disagreed with me here.

A random poster, who is scouting from his @ss and not getting paid a penny, is looking correct so far.

[DuckIII]

Marc Eversley should have drafted Tyrese Haliburton. And now we're here being mentioned in trades for Lonzo Ball, who is also not on the level of Hali. Hali is playing lights out right now.

I had Hali as the pick at 4 as well, but this logic does not fly. Trading for a point guard because you did not draft one does not mean you should have drafted one. It means you got one despite not using your valuable lottery pick, which you used on a young, inexperienced, high upside player. This would be a different discussion if the Bulls give up significant value for Ball, but I cannot imagine they would.

Saying it’s obvious now, 16 games into the season, that the Bulls picked the wrong guy because the guy who is almost 2 years older is off to a good start, is premature as well.

If the Bulls made a mistake, and I think they did, it’s in not aggressively trading for a second pick while Haliburton was plummeting down the draft board.

[CobyWhite0]

I caught about 1/2 of the Kings/Magic game tonight, and Haliburton did not look good at all.

30 min
7 pts
2 reb
7 ast
2 to
3/11 fg
1/4 3's
0 fta
.318 ts%
On court: -8, 30 min
Off court: +22, 18 min

[DuckIII]

I caught about 1/2 of the Kings/Magic game tonight, and Haliburton did not look good at all.

30 min
7 pts
2 reb
7 ast
2 to
3/11 fg
1/4 3's
0 fta
.318 ts%
On court: -8, 30 min
Off court: +22, 18 min

Yeah, well, one game sample size aside, he is damn good and I wish like crazy we had him or a guy very similar to him. He brings more or less exactly what we need on this team. I’d trade quite a bit right now to get him to pair with Zach and Willy as core players going forward, but no way Sacto is moving him.

But that doesn’t have anything to do with Lonzo Ball so he never should have been part of the discussion to begin with.

[Axl Rose]

Unless NO is attaching picks, Coby for Lonzo would be terrible. Even if you are convinced Coby is a bust, his name still carries a bit of value plus he's still on a rookie deal. That could be used as a sweetener in a larger deal if one were to come up.

[Chicago-Bull-E]

Sato and a 2nd is the play here.

Some of these other offers are wild, for an underachieving player who is on an expiring deal. If you’re gonna give up something of value, then you sure as hell better be ready to sign him in the offseason. And guess what, him and his agent will know it. See Tobias Harris.

[LateNight]

Apparently Bledsoe is available too... 18m per season (2 more years - 31)

[fleet]

Marc Eversley should have drafted Tyrese Haliburton. And now we're here being mentioned in trades for Lonzo Ball, who is also not on the level of Hali. Hali is playing lights out right now.

I had Hali as the pick at 4 as well, but this logic does not fly. Trading for a point guard because you did not draft one does not mean you should have drafted one. It means you got one despite not using your valuable lottery pick, which you used on a young, inexperienced, high upside player. This would be a different discussion if the Bulls give up significant value for Ball, but I cannot imagine they would.

Saying it’s obvious now, 16 games into the season, that the Bulls picked the wrong guy because the guy who is almost 2 years older is off to a good start, is premature as well.

If the Bulls made a mistake, and I think they did, it’s in not aggressively trading for a second pick while Haliburton was plummeting down the draft board.

A hard deal to make if we are talking about trading a 2021 or ‘22 pick. Those drafts would have been seen as more sure bets. Maybe a Lauri or Coby trade would have been the only way if the Bulls were down on them. But the Bulls easily could have traded up for MPJ theoretically in a prior draft. Hindsight is awesome, but the Bulls had a pretty wide open opportunity to have a young core of MPJ and Patrick Williams up front, with Carter, Haliburton, and Zach fairly easily for a few reasonable moves.