How overpaid is Derozan, and will it matter?

[MalagaBulls]

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[MGB8]

Someone change the title to “How Underpaid is DeRozan?”

Right now, it's looking that way, isn't it? That's a good thing.

Despite being one of the few, maybe only, backers of bringing DeRozan in (see threads from last season and the offseason), I certainly bought into some of the General-Board (and many on this forum from older threads') concerns regarding defense, decline, and lack of 3 point shooting ---- hence my evaluation of DeRozan as overpaid about about 6M per season.

But right now he's not looking overpaid at all. Probably not underpaid, either, but definitely a guy worth 75-80% of a max deal.

Interestingly, despite an uptick in his current 3 pt percentage (on slightly increased volume - to 2 3PA/G), his TS is actually down a lot. But he's at an insane +14.9 net +/- per 100 possessions. And that is fairly consistent with the eyeball test.

Goes to show you how important "fit" is - how the Bulls really did need exactly what DeRozan brings.

[Michael Jackson]

Someone change the title to “How Underpaid is DeRozan?”

Right now, it's looking that way, isn't it? That's a good thing.

Despite being one of the few, maybe only, backers of bringing DeRozan in (see threads from last season and the offseason), I certainly bought into some of the General-Board (and many on this forum from older threads') concerns regarding defense, decline, and lack of 3 point shooting ---- hence my evaluation of DeRozan as overpaid about about 6M per season.

But right now he's not looking overpaid at all. Probably not underpaid, either, but definitely a guy worth 75-80% of a max deal.

Interestingly, despite an uptick in his current 3 pt percentage (on slightly increased volume - to 2 3PA/G), his TS is actually down a lot. But he's at an insane +14.9 net +/- per 100 possessions. And that is fairly consistent with the eyeball test.

Goes to show you how important "fit" is - how the Bulls really did need exactly what DeRozan brings.

The fit is right. Now if DDR was brought in and he was the only addition to the old GarPax team, him and Zach both would look worse. In this role, one so far he seems more than willing to play and play well, he is a near perfect fit, especially considering that he was an available option. His veteran presence is likely more valuable than John Collins youth would be, in adding a similar type player. Youth is great for hypothetical timelines for sure, but as soon as we traded for Vuc that long timeline disappeared. Not saying that 3 years from now you wouldn’t prefer Collins because he will be in his prime where DDR wouldn’t, but DDR helps us more today, where we need to change the losing ways of this team. He is the right fit. I was never sitting salivating for DDR, but I am glad they made the move for him and it looks to be the right move all things considered.

[DorO]

DDR plays like he is rightly paid for and he brings truly valuable vet presence. Not the least worried about his salary which is about same what Otto Porter got when played with us.

[Wingy]

Prediction: Along with Zach, Derozan will represent us at the All Star game.

[meekrab]

Interestingly, despite an uptick in his current 3 pt percentage (on slightly increased volume - to 2 3PA/G), his TS is actually down a lot. But he's at an insane +14.9 net +/- per 100 possessions. And that is fairly consistent with the eyeball test.

TS% drop is almost entirely due to his 2PT% being historically terrible so far this season, like Allen Iverson's worst years bad. Remember the game threads where we were all complaining about him dribbling into contested 17 foot jumpers?

Now obviously, that was the shot that was available because he was on the floor with 4 guys who don't score the ball well. I expect those shots will become rarer as the offense gets more cohesive, but it's easily explainable.

[Bandit King]

Derozan is still a top player in this NBA and not overpriced

[WindyCityBorn]

Bump. Derozan is playing like an all-star right now. I’m not gonna say anything provocative like this is his team, but he seems to be guy that gets buckets and calms things down when everyone else is spazzing out in crunch time. And I think he will only get better as the season progresses. He had some really nice assists running the offense as well.

I don’t think it is to early to say all the experts hating on this move were dead wrong.

[NecessaryEvil]

Derozan is still a top player in this NBA and not overpriced

He's also a great teacher for a 26 year old Zach Lavine.

Definitely worth his deal and a for sure all-star this season.

I believe he'll be in Chicago past this contract.

[BullChit]

Derozan is still a top player in this NBA and not overpriced

He's also a great teacher for a 26 year old Zach Lavine.

Definitely worth his deal and a for sure all-star this season.

I believe he'll be in Chicago past this contract.

Not to mention a great overall locker room leader, hearing him talk about him talking to Pat and giving him book suggestions after the injury.

Just seems like a total positive leader for this team on and off the court.

[coldfish]

Lol. Derozan is underpaid. If he continues like this, he will be one of Chicago's best free agent acquisitions.

[AshyLarrysDiaper]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

Early days yet, but this is insane.

DeRozan, man. What a get.

[johanliebert]

Bump. Derozan is playing like an all-star right now. I’m not gonna say anything provocative like this is his team, but he seems to be guy that gets buckets and calms things down when everyone else is spazzing out in crunch time. And I think he will only get better as the season progresses. He had some really nice assists running the offense as well.

I don’t think it is to early to say all the experts hating on this move were dead wrong.

Nba Twitter is just a cesspool they aren’t experts. Most users here are a reflection of that, I don’t have to read this thread to know what was said. Let me guess is it the same narrative demar has had the past decade?

Nobody does any analysis or really understands the game they’d rather go with SAS hot takes it’s embarrassing I don’t see it in any other professional sport league.

The guys been an elite shot creator for 7-8 seasons now and developed into a playmaker.

[dabig3]

Bump. Derozan is playing like an all-star right now. I’m not gonna say anything provocative like this is his team, but he seems to be guy that gets buckets and calms things down when everyone else is spazzing out in crunch time. And I think he will only get better as the season progresses. He had some really nice assists running the offense as well.

I don’t think it is to early to say all the experts hating on this move were dead wrong.

Nba Twitter is just a cesspool they aren’t experts. Most users here are a reflection of that, I don’t have to read this thread to know what was said. Let me guess is it the same narrative demar has had the past decade?

Nobody does any analysis or really understands the game they’d rather go with SAS hot takes it’s embarrassing I don’t see it in any other professional sport league.

The guys been an elite shot creator for 7-8 seasons now and developed into a playmaker.

I felt like I was taking crazy pills reading all the negative words around Derozan after this man just had arguably his best season
last season on the Spurs. He further evolved his game and still not finished.

Plus his base game, the much maligned midrange, is going to extend his prime. He can play that same elite game at 35 as he is now at 32, so I don't expect much of a dropoff during this current contract. And that will be BIG for the Bulls.

[sco]

Read on Twitter

?s=21

Early days yet, but this is insane.

DeRozan, man. What a get.

What I've hated about recent year Bulls was a lack of guys who actually wanted the ball to shoot during tough possessions other than Zach. I think this has frustrated Zach as well. Lauri didn't want the ball, Pat didn't want it, Sato didn't want it. DD wants the ball and knows what to do about it without hesistating.

[bad knees]

Zach's injury makes DDR even more important, for a bunch of reasons. One is end of game iso's. Can you imagine Zach trying to ballhandle and create iso shots at the end of games with a torn ligament in his left thumb? It would be ugly and brutal. Zach would struggle, probably injure his thumb more, and the Bulls would suffer multiple soul-crushing losses.

[kodo]

Derozan is mislabelled as a "mid range" scorer. Derozan attacks the basket, and that quite often results in FTs, which is the best offensive possession in the game. Better than a layup or 3. And the Bulls were historically bad in this category last season. The mid range shots are part of an overall offensive package. If you do the same thing every time you're easier to guard, interspersing jumpers in there gets defenders contesting, which he can exploit for FTs. If he never takes jumpers no defender is going to jump at fakes and baits.

And now with the refs no longer rewarding sliding into your defender, heavy FT scorers like Trae/Luka/Harden have gotten their FTA reduced to a fraction of normal. Only the guys truly attacking the basket are getting to the line, and Derozan is one of them.

FTs per game

Code: Select all

1. Embiid   7.3
2. Giannis  7.0
3. Butler   6.8
4. Gobert   6.2
5. Derozan  6.0


Derozan is ahead of KD, Curry, Harden, Beal, Tatum, Booker, Trae, Lillard, Luka, etc..

Last year Derozan took about 28% of his shots at the mid-range. Joel Embiid, who is so far the best at getting FTs this year now that all the cheap moves are taken out, takes 30% of his shots at the mid-range. So Embiid, whose game nobody has problems with, shoots more mid-range shots than Derozan. Yet I don't see the media saying Embiid isn't worth his contract because he's just a mid range shooter.

The TLDR is that Derozan is providing something critical to the Bulls that we're not getting without trading for Embiid, Giannis, or Butler. And I don't see Thad Young and a future 1st bringing in any of those guys.

[superdave]

Derozan is mislabelled as a "mid range" scorer. Derozan attacks the basket, and that quite often results in FTs, which is the best offensive possession in the game. Better than a layup or 3. And the Bulls were historically bad in this category last season. The mid range shots are part of an overall offensive package. If you do the same thing every time you're easier to guard, interspersing jumpers in there gets defenders contesting, which he can exploit for FTs. If he never takes jumpers no defender is going to jump at fakes and baits.

And now with the refs no longer rewarding sliding into your defender, heavy FT scorers like Trae/Luka/Harden have gotten their FTA reduced to a fraction of normal. Only the guys truly attacking the basket are getting to the line, and Derozan is one of them.

FTs per game

Code: Select all

1. Embiid   7.3
2. Giannis  7.0
3. Butler   6.8
4. Gobert   6.2
5. Derozan  6.0


Derozan is ahead of KD, Curry, Harden, Beal, Tatum, Booker, Trae, Lillard, Luka, etc..

Last year Derozan took about 28% of his shots at the mid-range. Joel Embiid, who is so far the best at getting FTs this year now that all the cheap moves are taken out, takes 30% of his shots at the mid-range. So Embiid, whose game nobody has problems with, shoots more mid-range shots than Derozan. Yet I don't see the media saying Embiid isn't worth his contract because he's just a mid range shooter.

The TLDR is that Derozan is providing something critical to the Bulls that we're not getting without trading for Embiid, Giannis, or Butler. And I don't see Thad Young and a future 1st bringing in any of those guys.

Excellent post. Also, there’s a positive correlation with Zach’s game too. Zach is playing the least minutes and taking the least shots since 2017-18, while averaging a career high in FT attempts per game. All this during a down year for FT attempts overall given the rule change. Tl;dr Demar has been an amazing addition to this team

[TeamMan]

Derozan is mislabelled as a "mid range" scorer. Derozan attacks the basket, and that quite often results in FTs, which is the best offensive possession in the game. Better than a layup or 3. And the Bulls were historically bad in this category last season. The mid range shots are part of an overall offensive package. If you do the same thing every time you're easier to guard, interspersing jumpers in there gets defenders contesting, which he can exploit for FTs. If he never takes jumpers no defender is going to jump at fakes and baits.

And now with the refs no longer rewarding sliding into your defender, heavy FT scorers like Trae/Luka/Harden have gotten their FTA reduced to a fraction of normal. Only the guys truly attacking the basket are getting to the line, and Derozan is one of them.

FTs per game

Code: Select all

1. Embiid   7.3
2. Giannis  7.0
3. Butler   6.8
4. Gobert   6.2
5. Derozan  6.0


Derozan is ahead of KD, Curry, Harden, Beal, Tatum, Booker, Trae, Lillard, Luka, etc..

Last year Derozan took about 28% of his shots at the mid-range. Joel Embiid, who is so far the best at getting FTs this year now that all the cheap moves are taken out, takes 30% of his shots at the mid-range. So Embiid, whose game nobody has problems with, shoots more mid-range shots than Derozan. Yet I don't see the media saying Embiid isn't worth his contract because he's just a mid range shooter.

The TLDR is that Derozan is providing something critical to the Bulls that we're not getting without trading for Embiid, Giannis, or Butler. And I don't see Thad Young and a future 1st bringing in any of those guys.

Excellent post. Also, there’s a positive correlation with Zach’s game too. Zach is playing the least minutes and taking the least shots since 2017-18, while averaging a career high in FT attempts per game. All this during a down year for FT attempts overall given the rule change. Tl;dr Demar has been an amazing addition to this team

Great post!

Championships are won in the half-court - with defense, and and the ability (in crunch time) to go 1-on-1 and make a basket and/or get to the FT line.

Now, with Zach and DDR (and Vuc to a lesser degree) the Bulls can always have at least one player on the court most of the time that can get critical points in the half-court when they need them.

But the really good news is that the team hasn't reached it's peak yet.

All the FO has to do is to find creative ways to keep the team together and manage the cap, and this can last for several years.

[BeatDaCavs420]

Someone change the title to “How Underpaid is DeRozan?”

Right now, it's looking that way, isn't it? That's a good thing.

Despite being one of the few, maybe only, backers of bringing DeRozan in (see threads from last season and the offseason), I certainly bought into some of the General-Board (and many on this forum from older threads') concerns regarding defense, decline, and lack of 3 point shooting ---- hence my evaluation of DeRozan as overpaid about about 6M per season.

But right now he's not looking overpaid at all. Probably not underpaid, either, but definitely a guy worth 75-80% of a max deal.

Interestingly, despite an uptick in his current 3 pt percentage (on slightly increased volume - to 2 3PA/G), his TS is actually down a lot. But he's at an insane +14.9 net +/- per 100 possessions. And that is fairly consistent with the eyeball test.

Goes to show you how important "fit" is - how the Bulls really did need exactly what DeRozan brings.

lol