Bulls @ Hawks 6:30pm CT Dec. 26 2024

[DropStep]

Just an embarrassing outcome. Hilarious to me that anyone would want to watch crap like this for years on end in a "rebuild". This league and this roster is near a breaking point.

Is the alternative to a rebuild just sticking with this roster until we all die? Or should we be buyers at the deadline, somehow? Or is it that we're screwed no matter what we do, there is no hope for us or the league, and we should all sign off and focus on the (gulp) Bears? At least someone is getting some comedy out of it!

[sco]

The Bulls now have a worse record than the Pistons.

The Bulls are in a direction headed nowhere. Hopefully AK surprises me and decides to rebuild.

On the General Board there's a post asking: "What franchise is in the worst position for the next 5-10 years?". Right now the Bulls are leading that poll.

The Bulls now have the 9th worst record in the league?

Isn't this what you "Save the pick" people want? Shouldn't you be happy?

I'm focused on two key things:

1) When will Billy learn that Coby should no longer be starting? I think that will be very instructive to see the team with him in a 6th man role.

2) When will the FO finally throw in the towel for the season and make some moves for the future?

Back on the game, was it just me or did Pat look a bit more spry?

[ChettheJet]

With only a blue screen to watch, with 4 important players out I'd say the fourth quarter collapse was due to guys who don't play heavy mutes getting mentally tired, losing focus and not being used to coping with the game on the line. Maybe some around here should appreciate the starters for being starters because they are better and know better how to play

[League Circles]

Just an embarrassing outcome. Hilarious to me that anyone would want to watch crap like this for years on end in a "rebuild". This league and this roster is near a breaking point.

Is the alternative to a rebuild just sticking with this roster until we all die? Or should we be buyers at the deadline, somehow? Or is it that we're screwed no matter what we do, there is no hope for us or the league, and we should all sign off and focus on the (gulp) Bears? At least someone is getting some comedy out of it!

The "rebuild" vs "be buyers" or "win now" is always silly to me. There are 15 players to decide on, not one roster. We should definitely be trying to make trades, primarily consolidation trades IMO. It's just laughable to me to wish that your entertainment product of choice be thoroughly unentertaining for years on end just in hopes that it's better later. The Bulls being great isn't a life goal of mine. Not something I want to invest in. The better they are, the more likely they are to serve their entertainment purpose to me. Currently they aren't really doing that. It could be worse, but it's pretty bad now.

I mean, we're 31 games into something of a rebuild, and so far it's not very good. It's bizarre to me that anyone thinks we're stuck in some meaningful way. We're already rebuilding, we just need to get better at it, and relatively quickly unless they want to lose a lot of fans indefinitely. I still watch about half of Bears games but it's generally depressing because the NFL is so contrived.

[CROBulls]

Just an embarrassing outcome. Hilarious to me that anyone would want to watch crap like this for years on end in a "rebuild". This league and this roster is near a breaking point.

Is the alternative to a rebuild just sticking with this roster until we all die? Or should we be buyers at the deadline, somehow? Or is it that we're screwed no matter what we do, there is no hope for us or the league, and we should all sign off and focus on the (gulp) Bears? At least someone is getting some comedy out of it!

The "rebuild" vs "be buyers" or "win now" is always silly to me. There are 15 players to decide on, not one roster. We should definitely be trying to make trades, primarily consolidation trades IMO. It's just laughable to me to wish that your entertainment product of choice be thoroughly unentertaining for years on end just in hopes that it's better later. The Bulls being great isn't a life goal of mine. Not something I want to invest in. The better they are, the more likely they are to serve their entertainment purpose to me. Currently they aren't really doing that. It could be worse, but it's pretty bad now.

I mean, we're 31 games into something of a rebuild, and so far it's not very good. It's bizarre to me that anyone thinks we're stuck in some meaningful way. We're already rebuilding, we just need to get better at it, and relatively quickly unless they want to lose a lot of fans indefinitely. I still watch about half of Bears games but it's generally depressing because the NFL is so contrived.

Please stop calling this disgrace a rebuild. This is called doing Hawks 2000's. If you were alive then you know what it means. Irrelevancy. Bulls are not good, Bulls are not bad. They just exist in purgatory.

In my highschool I had schoolmate who was like this. Just barely doing his dilligence, just existing, no motive to get better, to improve, learn etc. Nothing. Professor after 2nd year knew who he was after observing him and told him "You are stealing God's days". And this is what this franchise is doing to any of their fans.

[League Circles]

Is the alternative to a rebuild just sticking with this roster until we all die? Or should we be buyers at the deadline, somehow? Or is it that we're screwed no matter what we do, there is no hope for us or the league, and we should all sign off and focus on the (gulp) Bears? At least someone is getting some comedy out of it!

The "rebuild" vs "be buyers" or "win now" is always silly to me. There are 15 players to decide on, not one roster. We should definitely be trying to make trades, primarily consolidation trades IMO. It's just laughable to me to wish that your entertainment product of choice be thoroughly unentertaining for years on end just in hopes that it's better later. The Bulls being great isn't a life goal of mine. Not something I want to invest in. The better they are, the more likely they are to serve their entertainment purpose to me. Currently they aren't really doing that. It could be worse, but it's pretty bad now.

I mean, we're 31 games into something of a rebuild, and so far it's not very good. It's bizarre to me that anyone thinks we're stuck in some meaningful way. We're already rebuilding, we just need to get better at it, and relatively quickly unless they want to lose a lot of fans indefinitely. I still watch about half of Bears games but it's generally depressing because the NFL is so contrived.

Please stop calling this disgrace a rebuild. This is called doing Hawks 2000's. If you are alive then you know what it means. Irrelevancy.

I mean, we're a lot different than last year. We have 6 rotation players under 30, all talented former top 10 picks, who basically weren't in the rotation last year:

Smith
Patrick
Matas
Giddey
Zach
Ball

We play a very different style, we have a different primary ball handler. We got rid of 3 of our 4 best players from last season.

I'm not saying it's a good, effective rebuild (yet). I'm saying we're obviously already rebuilding. I'm not telling people to be patient and that things will all work out. I'm saying we're obviously, unequivocally already in the process of rebuilding. Trying to trade Zach and Vuc further supports that. But those two guys are just a small part of the roster anyway.

[Chi town]

With only a blue screen to watch, with 4 important players out I'd say the fourth quarter collapse was due to guys who don't play heavy mutes getting mentally tired, losing focus and not being used to coping with the game on the line. Maybe some around here should appreciate the starters for being starters because they are better and know better how to play

And because we didn’t have a PG on the court to get us organized and set up.

And because our defense was atrocious.

[Chi town]

The Bulls now have a worse record than the Pistons.

The Bulls are in a direction headed nowhere. Hopefully AK surprises me and decides to rebuild.

On the General Board there's a post asking: "What franchise is in the worst position for the next 5-10 years?". Right now the Bulls are leading that poll.

The Bulls now have the 9th worst record in the league?

Isn't this what you "Save the pick" people want? Shouldn't you be happy?

I'm focused on two key things:

1) When will Billy learn that Coby should no longer be starting? I think that will be very instructive to see the team with him in a 6th man role.

2) When will the FO finally throw in the towel for the season and make some moves for the future?

Back on the game, was it just me or did Pat look a bit more spry?

Pat played exceptional disruptive defense. His mins are still below average but he’s been playing better.

[Chi town]

Brilliant tank loss.

Truly impressive.

Lose the next 5. Competitively please.

They'll go 2-3 over that stretch for sure, the Hornets and Wizards suck.

Hopefully 1-4.

When healthy we are a 6th seed team. When our PG’s or Vuc or Zach are out we are 7-9 worst team in the league.

[Chi town]

I'm not sure if I should be disappointed in the Bulls for blowing that lead or impressed by the Hawks for orchestrating the comeback.

What was mostly evident to me is that we were riding off a few very very hot hands - Jevon in the 1st, Coby at times, and Zach in the 3rd.

When the Hawks turned up the defense we couldn't do anything. Blitz the ball handler and then let Dyson Daniels and Jalen Johnson just ball hawk any pass made.

If they're blitzing the ball handler maybe stop going to the high pick and roll? I'd give the ball to our best ball handler - which is probably Coby at this point, and let him go 1 v 1 iso. I'll say it - we don't lose that 4th quarter if we have DeMar.

The free throw disparity is hard to overcome, we had plenty of points in the paint so it's not like we only shot 3's.

De'Andre Hunter weirdly gives me hope for Patrick Williams. Hopefully we don't have to wait till Williams is 27 to see this level of play.

If Ayo is out with an illness - why is he on the bench?

While I didn't expect exactly that from Jevon Carter last year - it was more in line with what I thought would happen. A release valve that can make you pay with quick 3's

Zach was ridiculous in that 3rd quarter

THT is now in the lead as my least favorite current Bull. Yeah he's had some nights where is bull crap works but more often that not it's a horrendous eye sore. I'd glue him to the bench if I were the coach. If I were the GM i'd just release him and sign like Oshae Brissett or Thaddeus Young or Cedi Osman

We tried to give away that Toronto game the other night, we successfully gave this one away.

Giddey and Ball are the only people who can properly feed Vuc

Oddly I’ve thought the same thing about Hunter and Pat. Hunter comes off the bench now and he has been very effective as a scorer.

Ayo strained his Achilles. Not illness.

THT is so unwatchable.

Hawks did it hat I have been screaming at Billy to do all season when someone is hot… BLITZ THE PNR.

Of course we turn it over 3xs in a row as Zach plays brain dead.

I don’t think over seen an NBA team so inept without a PG. it’s very clear Coby and Zach can’t do it.

[MrSparkle]

Zach/Pat/Vuc/Coby/Billy must be the longest lasting losing core in the NBA. 5-years and a 1-4 playoff record, a post-season appearance thanks to Demar for whose services we currently owe a lotto pick. The Bulls job is the cushiest in the world. They must be making some big income on betting against themselves. It is asinine that they’ve positioned the team for an 11-12th pick in a top-10 protected draft. A bunch of amateurs saw this coming.

[ShouldaPaidBG]

Get Billy and the vets out of here

[MalagaBulls]

Zach/Pat/Vuc/Coby/Billy must be the longest lasting losing core in the NBA. 5-years and a 1-4 playoff record, a post-season appearance thanks to Demar for whose services we currently owe a lotto pick. The Bulls job is the cushiest in the world. They must be making some big income on betting against themselves. It is asinine that they’ve positioned the team for an 11-12th pick in a top-10 protected draft. A bunch of amateurs saw this coming.

And your point is?

[GetBuLLish]

I'm not saying it's a good, effective rebuild (yet). I'm saying we're obviously already rebuilding. I'm not telling people to be patient and that things will all work out. I'm saying we're obviously, unequivocally already in the process of rebuilding. Trying to trade Zach and Vuc further supports that. But those two guys are just a small part of the roster anyway.

So if you describe the Bulls' current approach as a rebuild and you're against rebuilding, then what are you proposing that the Bulls have done? Just stand pat and bring back the same roster as last year? Because you've also made it clear that you are against tanking. So if you are against rebuilding and tanking, that seems to leave one (horrendous) option.

[drosestruts]

Just a reminder that we're the 10th youngest team in the league. How much younger do people think we should be.

And if you come into every post game thread screaming to trade Zach and Vuc... for what?

The most credible rumors we have are Denver being interested in Zach for MPJ and Nnaji and Phoenix being interested in Vuc and wanting to trade Nurkic for him

I'd be worried about what MPJ looks like without Jokic and I have no interest in taking on Felicio... err I mean Nnaji. I've been saddled with a 4 year $32m contract before for an unplayable player - not excited to do it again

And Nurkic for Vuc... no thank you. Maybe if they sent picks along with it, but Suns don't have any of those

You can't make a team trade you stuff

[CROBulls]

Just a reminder that we're the 10th youngest team in the league. How much younger do people think we should be.

And if you come into every post game thread screaming to trade Zach and Vuc... for what?

The most credible rumors we have are Denver being interested in Zach for MPJ and Nnaji and Phoenix being interested in Vuc and wanting to trade Nurkic for him

I'd be worried about what MPJ looks like without Jokic and I have no interest in taking on Felicio... err I mean Nnaji. I've been saddled with a 4 year $32m contract before for an unplayable player - not excited to do it again

And Nurkic for Vuc... no thank you. Maybe if they sent picks along with it, but Suns don't have any of those

You can't make a team trade you stuff

10th youngest team with zero high lottery talent on roster makes it even worse. Nobody is screaming to get younger, everyone is screaming to get high end talent. Trade away until you have it. I dont care for Coby White being 24, when I know that with his chucking IQ low mentality and raptors arms he wont get better. I dont care for Patrick Williams being 23 when I know he is scrub and will stay that way unless he goes to play in Indonesia. Move away from losing players like Zach and Vuc. Move away from Patrick, move away from Coby White if he is not gonna stop being a chucker.

You move away and you pivot. And you pivot, pivot till you find high end talents to put your franchise on NBA floor and start winning games.

Everyone is acting like being GM is very difficult job. It's not. It's actually easy job. What hard part of job is you get all responsbility to make all decision. With Bulls in a league is one of cushiest jobs on a planet. You can sh*?** the fan and you still gonna keep it. And yet we get Dumb and Dumber edition getting AKME to run this team. This franchise go from winning championship to giving Patrick Williams 20M for 5 points per game.

EDIT: Good luck to Hawks tonight. I mean Blackhawks. Nobody cares about this game anyway.

[League Circles]

I'm not saying it's a good, effective rebuild (yet). I'm saying we're obviously already rebuilding. I'm not telling people to be patient and that things will all work out. I'm saying we're obviously, unequivocally already in the process of rebuilding. Trying to trade Zach and Vuc further supports that. But those two guys are just a small part of the roster anyway.

So if you describe the Bulls' current approach as a rebuild and you're against rebuilding, then what are you proposing that the Bulls have done? Just stand pat and bring back the same roster as last year? Because you've also made it clear that you are against tanking. So if you are against rebuilding and tanking, that seems to leave one (horrendous) option.

I don't really believe in the concept of "approaches" or "directions". I believe essentially all teams at all times should make whatever moves they believe will be most likely to bring them a title within 4 years. I think trying to plan on a longer timeframe than that is unwise.

My original comment was about the people that think the FO needs to start a rebuild (they already started), and/or those that believe a single draft pick (such as our contingent 2025 frp) is critical to the overall roster quality, and/or those who believe that it's critical that we are a bad team for the next several years so that we can (magically) be better in like 2032.

To answer your question about what they should have done, my basic thoughts are these:

Caruso-Giddey trade was good, although unlikely to yield positive results. It was worth a chance because Caruso is overrated and IMO, now on a bad contract going forward, especially if it were for us.

Patrick deal was a mistake. Should have signed him to a 1+1 (team option) deal kinda like we did with Mirotic and Jabari Parker.

Drafting Matas was good IMO.

Picking up Dalen Terry's 4th year option was a mistake.

Signing Jalen Smith without trading Vuc was probably a mistake. IMO, Smith is only a positive if he's starting, because then you have a really cheap starting C, who although he isn't very good himself, would then free up a lot of money for other positions in theory. He's too expensive to be an asset as a backup. His signing can be salvaged if we trade Vuc for expirings or something.

Can't remember if we picked up an option on Phillips but if we did, that was a mistake too.

We have a lot of OK pieces and basically only one good one (Zach). IMO, at the moment, I'd be heavily exploring deals that would land us whoever the single best player available is that would best complement Zach and Matas who is under 30 years old. Doesn't mean that there is a good deal of that description available, but it's what we should be focusing on IMO.

Keeping our draft pick is always something to consider, but is hard to predict with or without any trades, and ultimately most likely projects to not be a long term core piece anyways. So I'm not at all obsessed with it like many posters are. I'm not trying to be a good team this year, but I definitely am trying to be a good team within the next 1-3 years. We should be shopping the hell out of these guys, mostly by offering packages for an actual good player:

Vuc
Smith
Patrick
Giddey
Ayo
Coby
Ball
Terry
Carter
Phillips
Duarte
THT

[Muzbar]

Just a reminder that we're the 10th youngest team in the league. How much younger do people think we should be.

And if you come into every post game thread screaming to trade Zach and Vuc... for what?

The most credible rumors we have are Denver being interested in Zach for MPJ and Nnaji and Phoenix being interested in Vuc and wanting to trade Nurkic for him

I'd be worried about what MPJ looks like without Jokic and I have no interest in taking on Felicio... err I mean Nnaji. I've been saddled with a 4 year $32m contract before for an unplayable player - not excited to do it again

And Nurkic for Vuc... no thank you. Maybe if they sent picks along with it, but Suns don't have any of those

You can't make a team trade you stuff

10th youngest team with zero high lottery talent on roster makes it even worse. Nobody is screaming to get younger, everyone is screaming to get high end talent. Trade away until you have it. I dont care for Coby White being 24, when I know that with his chucking IQ low mentality and raptors arms he wont get better. I dont care for Patrick Williams being 23 when I know he is scrub and will stay that way unless he goes to play in Indonesia. Move away from losing players like Zach and Vuc. Move away from Patrick, move away from Coby White if he is not gonna stop being a chucker.

You move away and you pivot. And you pivot, pivot till you find high end talents to put your franchise on NBA floor and start winning games.

Everyone is acting like being GM is very difficult job. It's not. It's actually easy job. What hard part of job is you get all responsbility to make all decision. With Bulls in a league is one of cushiest jobs on a planet. You can sh*?** the fan and you still gonna keep it. And yet we get Dumb and Dumber edition getting AKME to run this team. This franchise go from winning championship to giving Patrick Williams 20M for 5 points per game.

EDIT: Good luck to Hawks tonight. I mean Blackhawks. Nobody cares about this game anyway.

I 100% agree with your first half of your post. It isn't about getting younger, it never has been. It's about trying to find young talent you can build a team around for the future, finding cornerstones. The Bulls have none of those (except maybe Matas, but it's too early to tell).

I very much disagree that being a GM is a very easy job, what makes you think it's so easy? It's easy to say this from the outside looking in when we all can jump on the online trade machines and make all these you beaut trades that we can't believe AKME haven't made. There's so much more behind it than we'd realise.

That being said, AKME are incompetent, and need to know when to pivot rather than just sitting on their hands.

[DuckIII]

Just a reminder that we're the 10th youngest team in the league. How much younger do people think we should be.

Age in itself is irrelevant. It’s just that the draft is the best way to get access to franchise talent, if you don’t have the assets to do it through trade, that you control. And the guys in the draft are young.

Also young teams tend to lose games so that is the other element of wanting to be younger. But your post makes age sound like the goal, but it’s not. It’s just how it goes age wise when you want to rebuild through the draft.

No one wants to “get young” for the sake of being younger. It is for the sake of important things to fans who prioritize contending over everything else.

[Dan Z]

I'm not saying it's a good, effective rebuild (yet). I'm saying we're obviously already rebuilding. I'm not telling people to be patient and that things will all work out. I'm saying we're obviously, unequivocally already in the process of rebuilding. Trying to trade Zach and Vuc further supports that. But those two guys are just a small part of the roster anyway.

So if you describe the Bulls' current approach as a rebuild and you're against rebuilding, then what are you proposing that the Bulls have done? Just stand pat and bring back the same roster as last year? Because you've also made it clear that you are against tanking. So if you are against rebuilding and tanking, that seems to leave one (horrendous) option.

I don't really believe in the concept of "approaches" or "directions". I believe essentially all teams at all times should make whatever moves they believe will be most likely to bring them a title within 4 years. I think trying to plan on a longer timeframe than that is unwise.

My original comment was about the people that think the FO needs to start a rebuild (they already started), and/or those that believe a single draft pick (such as our contingent 2025 frp) is critical to the overall roster quality, and/or those who believe that it's critical that we are a bad team for the next several years so that we can (magically) be better in like 2032.

To answer your question about what they should have done, my basic thoughts are these:

Caruso-Giddey trade was good, although unlikely to yield positive results. It was worth a chance because Caruso is overrated and IMO, now on a bad contract going forward, especially if it were for us.

Patrick deal was a mistake. Should have signed him to a 1+1 (team option) deal kinda like we did with Mirotic and Jabari Parker.

Drafting Matas was good IMO.

Picking up Dalen Terry's 4th year option was a mistake.

Signing Jalen Smith without trading Vuc was probably a mistake. IMO, Smith is only a positive if he's starting, because then you have a really cheap starting C, who although he isn't very good himself, would then free up a lot of money for other positions in theory. He's too expensive to be an asset as a backup. His signing can be salvaged if we trade Vuc for expirings or something.

Can't remember if we picked up an option on Phillips but if we did, that was a mistake too.

We have a lot of OK pieces and basically only one good one (Zach). IMO, at the moment, I'd be heavily exploring deals that would land us whoever the single best player available is that would best complement Zach and Matas who is under 30 years old. Doesn't mean that there is a good deal of that description available, but it's what we should be focusing on IMO.

Keeping our draft pick is always something to consider, but is hard to predict with or without any trades, and ultimately most likely projects to not be a long term core piece anyways. So I'm not at all obsessed with it like many posters are. I'm not trying to be a good team this year, but I definitely am trying to be a good team within the next 1-3 years. We should be shopping the hell out of these guys, mostly by offering packages for an actual good player:

Vuc
Smith
Patrick
Giddey
Ayo
Coby
Ball
Terry
Carter
Phillips
Duarte
THT

If this is a rebuild then it's a half-assed one and that's the problem.