Coby's Next Contract

[Jcool0]

Coby White (post ASG): 26 ppg 4.2 rpg 4.3 apg 50%/38%, W-L 14-9
2023 Lavine (post ASG): 27 ppg 3.5 rpg 4.7 apg 53%/39%, W-L 13-9

That crossed my mind as well.
The difference is between the ears. LaVine has been a career long stat padder, while Cobys effort wins games.
LaVine ain't a bad guy though, he does not even realize this and still thinks he is doing everything for his team to win.

We did not go 13:9 after the ASG 2023 because of LaVine, we did so despite LaVine being here.

We aren't currently 14-9 after the ASG because of Coby. Giddey's jump has been more impactful going 20/10/9.

[League Circles]

Trade Coby to the highest bidder this offseason. That is the absolute best option going forward.

Better than Coby just continuing to be this good and staying on the Bulls?

I’m not sold on Coby. We’ve been down this path with him before (similarly, not identically). Need to see it for a season.

But if this is really him now, when getting to be a number 1 and playing next an unselfish sprinter like Giddey, it’s hard to imagine any scenario where trading him this summer is likely to be better than keeping him.

If his salary is a 30% max after playing this well then trading him may still be better than keeping him.

The trade vs keep is really comparing two unknowns, one of which is cost and one is return.

In some ways I think trade vs keep is kind of a wash, it is how you align all of your moves together to maximize the trade path or keep path. In the end, it is likely that you won't be excited about Coby on his new deal and also not excited about the return he fetches.

It is clear we want to maximize the keep path based on our other decisions all pointing that way.

In the unlikely event that Coby keeps up his post-all star break performance through all of next year, he's worth 30% max in the relatively unlikely event we have to pay him that (though AK probably would anyway even if there weren't other big threats to sign him if he keeps playing like a true star). The only kind of trade that would make sense would literally be for a #1 overall pick, or another youngish lesser star plus other valuable pick(s) or player(s).

Yes, when paying guys the max, you always want it to be for the true best guy at that price level like a prime Lebron, KD, Giannis etc - somebody who can be just as good on defense as Coby has been playing on offense, but that's just so unrealistic. The way to make up for paying a 30% max to this version of Coby (should he continue playing like this all of next year) is to start by going dirt cheap where you can - your 3rd string players should be making basically league minimum instead of tens of millions of dollars combined like ours are now. We're paying like $50 million at the C position right now for what amounts to a total of $25 mil in quality IMO. You can't just only try to win when you get literally one of the best handful of 2 way players in the league (the guys that actually deserve the max). Individual player max salary is a lunacy policy in the CBA for this reason. Been screwing up the nba market for like 20+ years or however long it's been.

[sco]

Better than Coby just continuing to be this good and staying on the Bulls?

I’m not sold on Coby. We’ve been down this path with him before (similarly, not identically). Need to see it for a season.

But if this is really him now, when getting to be a number 1 and playing next an unselfish sprinter like Giddey, it’s hard to imagine any scenario where trading him this summer is likely to be better than keeping him.

If his salary is a 30% max after playing this well then trading him may still be better than keeping him.

The trade vs keep is really comparing two unknowns, one of which is cost and one is return.

In some ways I think trade vs keep is kind of a wash, it is how you align all of your moves together to maximize the trade path or keep path. In the end, it is likely that you won't be excited about Coby on his new deal and also not excited about the return he fetches.

It is clear we want to maximize the keep path based on our other decisions all pointing that way.

In the unlikely event that Coby keeps up his post-all star break performance through all of next year, he's worth 30% max in the relatively unlikely event we have to pay him that (though AK probably would anyway even if there weren't other big threats to sign him if he keeps playing like a true star). The only kind of trade that would make sense would literally be for a #1 overall pick, or another youngish lesser star plus other valuable pick(s) or player(s).

Yes, when paying guys the max, you always want it to be for the true best guy at that price level like a prime Lebron, KD, Giannis etc - somebody who can be just as good on defense as Coby has been playing on offense, but that's just so unrealistic. The way to make up for paying a 30% max to this version of Coby (should he continue playing like this all of next year) is to start by going dirt cheap where you can - your 3rd string players should be making basically league minimum instead of tens of millions of dollars combined like ours are now. We're paying like $50 million at the C position right now for what amounts to a total of $25 mil in quality IMO. You can't just only try to win when you get literally one of the best handful of 2 way players in the league (the guys that actually deserve the max). Individual player max salary is a lunacy policy in the CBA for this reason. Been screwing up the nba market for like 20+ years or however long it's been.

You guys made some great points!

I would definitely consider trading Coby, but for who/what...that's always the rub, because the answer always matters. Would you guys trade Coby this offseason for:

1) 3 1sts plus 2 swaps...IMO, yes.
2) 3 1sts...probably if they are unprotected
3) 2 1sts...maybe, depending on how likely they are to be lotto picks

I'm with most of you that I don't totally trust Coby's current level of play amidst the tanking part of the season; however, he is passing the eye-test in terms of the types of shots he is taking/making and his newly demonstrated ability to consistently get more foul shots.

If he is able to continue to perform at this level next season, is a MAX contract an overpay? IMO, two factors are worth considering...are we a top 6 team? Did he improve his game over this season? If we are clearly a play-off team with him as our #1 option, that means to me that he is able to generate our offense in a winning context, which matters a lot to me. Also, my favorite aspect of Coby's game is that he is that Jimmy/Taj type offseason worker who keeps improving...not to mention acts as a catalyst for young guys to do the same by emulating him.

The Zach comparison is hard IMO. Zach is capable of being a very-efficient multi-dimensional offensive player. So, I'd be thrilled if they were close in terms of production. IMO, this season, Zach earned his paycheck. My problem with Zach over the years was his lack of durability, not so much his play. I feel like he gets a bad rep because he really was never in a position to be a "winner".

[League Circles]

If his salary is a 30% max after playing this well then trading him may still be better than keeping him.

The trade vs keep is really comparing two unknowns, one of which is cost and one is return.

In some ways I think trade vs keep is kind of a wash, it is how you align all of your moves together to maximize the trade path or keep path. In the end, it is likely that you won't be excited about Coby on his new deal and also not excited about the return he fetches.

It is clear we want to maximize the keep path based on our other decisions all pointing that way.

In the unlikely event that Coby keeps up his post-all star break performance through all of next year, he's worth 30% max in the relatively unlikely event we have to pay him that (though AK probably would anyway even if there weren't other big threats to sign him if he keeps playing like a true star). The only kind of trade that would make sense would literally be for a #1 overall pick, or another youngish lesser star plus other valuable pick(s) or player(s).

Yes, when paying guys the max, you always want it to be for the true best guy at that price level like a prime Lebron, KD, Giannis etc - somebody who can be just as good on defense as Coby has been playing on offense, but that's just so unrealistic. The way to make up for paying a 30% max to this version of Coby (should he continue playing like this all of next year) is to start by going dirt cheap where you can - your 3rd string players should be making basically league minimum instead of tens of millions of dollars combined like ours are now. We're paying like $50 million at the C position right now for what amounts to a total of $25 mil in quality IMO. You can't just only try to win when you get literally one of the best handful of 2 way players in the league (the guys that actually deserve the max). Individual player max salary is a lunacy policy in the CBA for this reason. Been screwing up the nba market for like 20+ years or however long it's been.

You guys made some great points!

I would definitely consider trading Coby, but for who/what...that's always the rub, because the answer always matters. Would you guys trade Coby this offseason for:

1) 3 1sts plus 2 swaps...IMO, yes.
2) 3 1sts...probably if they are unprotected
3) 2 1sts...maybe, depending on how likely they are to be lotto picks

I'm with most of you that I don't totally trust Coby's current level of play amidst the tanking part of the season; however, he is passing the eye-test in terms of the types of shots he is taking/making and his newly demonstrated ability to consistently get more foul shots.

If he is able to continue to perform at this level next season, is a MAX contract an overpay? IMO, two factors are worth considering...are we a top 6 team? Did he improve his game over this season? If we are clearly a play-off team with him as our #1 option, that means to me that he is able to generate our offense in a winning context, which matters a lot to me. Also, my favorite aspect of Coby's game is that he is that Jimmy/Taj type offseason worker who keeps improving...not to mention acts as a catalyst for young guys to do the same by emulating him.

The Zach comparison is hard IMO. Zach is capable of being a very-efficient multi-dimensional offensive player. So, I'd be thrilled if they were close in terms of production. IMO, this season, Zach earned his paycheck. My problem with Zach over the years was his lack of durability, not so much his play. I feel like he gets a bad rep because he really was never in a position to be a "winner".

As far as those trade packages, I have no idea. "3 firsts" just doesn't mean anything to me, even unprotected. I'd have to know exactly what team and which years and which protections to even remotely have an opinion.

Like, I wouldn't trade Coby for a dozen #20 overall picks if he keeps playing like this. In general, I place little value in distant future picks, especially if protected. Every team in the projects to be a .500 team in 8 years for example.

[Jcool0]

If his salary is a 30% max after playing this well then trading him may still be better than keeping him.

The trade vs keep is really comparing two unknowns, one of which is cost and one is return.

In some ways I think trade vs keep is kind of a wash, it is how you align all of your moves together to maximize the trade path or keep path. In the end, it is likely that you won't be excited about Coby on his new deal and also not excited about the return he fetches.

It is clear we want to maximize the keep path based on our other decisions all pointing that way.

In the unlikely event that Coby keeps up his post-all star break performance through all of next year, he's worth 30% max in the relatively unlikely event we have to pay him that (though AK probably would anyway even if there weren't other big threats to sign him if he keeps playing like a true star). The only kind of trade that would make sense would literally be for a #1 overall pick, or another youngish lesser star plus other valuable pick(s) or player(s).

Yes, when paying guys the max, you always want it to be for the true best guy at that price level like a prime Lebron, KD, Giannis etc - somebody who can be just as good on defense as Coby has been playing on offense, but that's just so unrealistic. The way to make up for paying a 30% max to this version of Coby (should he continue playing like this all of next year) is to start by going dirt cheap where you can - your 3rd string players should be making basically league minimum instead of tens of millions of dollars combined like ours are now. We're paying like $50 million at the C position right now for what amounts to a total of $25 mil in quality IMO. You can't just only try to win when you get literally one of the best handful of 2 way players in the league (the guys that actually deserve the max). Individual player max salary is a lunacy policy in the CBA for this reason. Been screwing up the nba market for like 20+ years or however long it's been.

You guys made some great points!

I would definitely consider trading Coby, but for who/what...that's always the rub, because the answer always matters. Would you guys trade Coby this offseason for:

1) 3 1sts plus 2 swaps...IMO, yes.
2) 3 1sts...probably if they are unprotected
3) 2 1sts...maybe, depending on how likely they are to be lotto picks

I'm with most of you that I don't totally trust Coby's current level of play amidst the tanking part of the season; however, he is passing the eye-test in terms of the types of shots he is taking/making and his newly demonstrated ability to consistently get more foul shots.

If he is able to continue to perform at this level next season, is a MAX contract an overpay? IMO, two factors are worth considering...are we a top 6 team? Did he improve his game over this season? If we are clearly a play-off team with him as our #1 option, that means to me that he is able to generate our offense in a winning context, which matters a lot to me. Also, my favorite aspect of Coby's game is that he is that Jimmy/Taj type offseason worker who keeps improving...not to mention acts as a catalyst for young guys to do the same by emulating him.

The Zach comparison is hard IMO. Zach is capable of being a very-efficient multi-dimensional offensive player. So, I'd be thrilled if they were close in terms of production. IMO, this season, Zach earned his paycheck. My problem with Zach over the years was his lack of durability, not so much his play. I feel like he gets a bad rep because he really was never in a position to be a "winner".

The other thing that made it easy to max guys was there was always a contending team willing to give up a good amount to get that 2nd/3rd "star". We saw with Zach that is no longer the case. Now it might not have helped Zach isn't seen as a "winner" and more a top 50 guy as apposed to top 30. Maybe Coby will shake that label or be seen as a better fit on teams. But the issue now is getting stuck with a max guy and having to play out the contract. Sure it the end the Bulls got there 1st and two good players. But at the time AK was trying to unload both and couldn't (Huerter was terrible in Sac). So this wasn't a Giddey trade situation. This was a pure luck it worked out situation. I doubt they get so lucky again.

[League Circles]

In the unlikely event that Coby keeps up his post-all star break performance through all of next year, he's worth 30% max in the relatively unlikely event we have to pay him that (though AK probably would anyway even if there weren't other big threats to sign him if he keeps playing like a true star). The only kind of trade that would make sense would literally be for a #1 overall pick, or another youngish lesser star plus other valuable pick(s) or player(s).

Yes, when paying guys the max, you always want it to be for the true best guy at that price level like a prime Lebron, KD, Giannis etc - somebody who can be just as good on defense as Coby has been playing on offense, but that's just so unrealistic. The way to make up for paying a 30% max to this version of Coby (should he continue playing like this all of next year) is to start by going dirt cheap where you can - your 3rd string players should be making basically league minimum instead of tens of millions of dollars combined like ours are now. We're paying like $50 million at the C position right now for what amounts to a total of $25 mil in quality IMO. You can't just only try to win when you get literally one of the best handful of 2 way players in the league (the guys that actually deserve the max). Individual player max salary is a lunacy policy in the CBA for this reason. Been screwing up the nba market for like 20+ years or however long it's been.

You guys made some great points!

I would definitely consider trading Coby, but for who/what...that's always the rub, because the answer always matters. Would you guys trade Coby this offseason for:

1) 3 1sts plus 2 swaps...IMO, yes.
2) 3 1sts...probably if they are unprotected
3) 2 1sts...maybe, depending on how likely they are to be lotto picks

I'm with most of you that I don't totally trust Coby's current level of play amidst the tanking part of the season; however, he is passing the eye-test in terms of the types of shots he is taking/making and his newly demonstrated ability to consistently get more foul shots.

If he is able to continue to perform at this level next season, is a MAX contract an overpay? IMO, two factors are worth considering...are we a top 6 team? Did he improve his game over this season? If we are clearly a play-off team with him as our #1 option, that means to me that he is able to generate our offense in a winning context, which matters a lot to me. Also, my favorite aspect of Coby's game is that he is that Jimmy/Taj type offseason worker who keeps improving...not to mention acts as a catalyst for young guys to do the same by emulating him.

The Zach comparison is hard IMO. Zach is capable of being a very-efficient multi-dimensional offensive player. So, I'd be thrilled if they were close in terms of production. IMO, this season, Zach earned his paycheck. My problem with Zach over the years was his lack of durability, not so much his play. I feel like he gets a bad rep because he really was never in a position to be a "winner".

The other thing that made it easy to max guys was there was always a contending team willing to give up a good amount to get that 2nd/3rd "star". We saw with Zach that is no longer the case. Now it might not have helped Zach isn't seen as a "winner" and more a top 50 guy as apposed to top 30. Maybe Coby will shake that label or be seen as a better fit on teams. But the issue now is getting stuck with a max guy and having to play out the contract. Sure it the end the Bulls got there 1st and two good players. But at the time AK was trying to unload both and couldn't (Huerter was terrible in Sac). So this wasn't a Giddey trade situation. This was a pure luck it worked out situation. I doubt they get so lucky again.

Yeah, hopefully the league is starting to learn that in theory, the best player in the league should be making the 35% max, and every other player should be making less. I doubt it, but hopefully we're moving in that direction and as a result Coby won't be more than like a 25-28% guy at worst if he keeps playing awesome. It's insane how the 30 vs 35% eligibility rules are set up.

[GoBlue72391]

I will never understand the desire to trade young players that get it together for the sake of getting other young players that might need the same time. All just to see a bad product during that time.

After the Lavine trade all thats left is Vuc.

Bulls finally get something to like, that is growing and looking good. You won't get a superstar on a losing team, you won't just get good with getting a #1 overall pick. It takes more and there are different ways to become a good team.
Get good on the back of a 25 year old next to a 22 and 20 years old.
Keep him, pay him if he can play like this next season, then offer him what he is worth.

It's not that people are just itching to trade him just for the sake of trading him, it's that AKME missed the window to sell high on virtually every notable player that came through this organization since they took over and maybe now we can finally sell high on a player and get some actual value in return.

If someone is unconvinced that Coby's current level of play is sustainable, then wanting to sell high on him rather than being forced to possibly max him makes plenty of sense.

[Jcool0]

You guys made some great points!

I would definitely consider trading Coby, but for who/what...that's always the rub, because the answer always matters. Would you guys trade Coby this offseason for:

1) 3 1sts plus 2 swaps...IMO, yes.
2) 3 1sts...probably if they are unprotected
3) 2 1sts...maybe, depending on how likely they are to be lotto picks

I'm with most of you that I don't totally trust Coby's current level of play amidst the tanking part of the season; however, he is passing the eye-test in terms of the types of shots he is taking/making and his newly demonstrated ability to consistently get more foul shots.

If he is able to continue to perform at this level next season, is a MAX contract an overpay? IMO, two factors are worth considering...are we a top 6 team? Did he improve his game over this season? If we are clearly a play-off team with him as our #1 option, that means to me that he is able to generate our offense in a winning context, which matters a lot to me. Also, my favorite aspect of Coby's game is that he is that Jimmy/Taj type offseason worker who keeps improving...not to mention acts as a catalyst for young guys to do the same by emulating him.

The Zach comparison is hard IMO. Zach is capable of being a very-efficient multi-dimensional offensive player. So, I'd be thrilled if they were close in terms of production. IMO, this season, Zach earned his paycheck. My problem with Zach over the years was his lack of durability, not so much his play. I feel like he gets a bad rep because he really was never in a position to be a "winner".

The other thing that made it easy to max guys was there was always a contending team willing to give up a good amount to get that 2nd/3rd "star". We saw with Zach that is no longer the case. Now it might not have helped Zach isn't seen as a "winner" and more a top 50 guy as apposed to top 30. Maybe Coby will shake that label or be seen as a better fit on teams. But the issue now is getting stuck with a max guy and having to play out the contract. Sure it the end the Bulls got there 1st and two good players. But at the time AK was trying to unload both and couldn't (Huerter was terrible in Sac). So this wasn't a Giddey trade situation. This was a pure luck it worked out situation. I doubt they get so lucky again.

Yeah, hopefully the league is starting to learn that in theory, the best player in the league should be making the 35% max, and every other player should be making less. I doubt it, but hopefully we're moving in that direction and as a result Coby won't be more than like a 25-28% guy at worst if he keeps playing awesome. It's insane how the 30 vs 35% eligibility rules are set up.

I am sure most teams know this but the player has to agree to the deal as well. Bulls let Zach go out and find a deal and Sac was willing to give him a big contract. I am sure Gar/Pax were hoping to sign him to a smaller deal. Just takes one team.

[WindyCityBorn]

That crossed my mind as well.
The difference is between the ears. LaVine has been a career long stat padder, while Cobys effort wins games.
LaVine ain't a bad guy though, he does not even realize this and still thinks he is doing everything for his team to win.

We did not go 13:9 after the ASG 2023 because of LaVine, we did so despite LaVine being here.

We aren't currently 14-9 after the ASG because of Coby. Giddey's jump has been more impactful going 20/10/9.

I agree that we tend to struggle when Giddey plays poorly. We go as he goes. Even if everyone else is balling.

[Indomitable]

If his salary is a 30% max after playing this well then trading him may still be better than keeping him.

The trade vs keep is really comparing two unknowns, one of which is cost and one is return.

In some ways I think trade vs keep is kind of a wash, it is how you align all of your moves together to maximize the trade path or keep path. In the end, it is likely that you won't be excited about Coby on his new deal and also not excited about the return he fetches.

It is clear we want to maximize the keep path based on our other decisions all pointing that way.

In the unlikely event that Coby keeps up his post-all star break performance through all of next year, he's worth 30% max in the relatively unlikely event we have to pay him that (though AK probably would anyway even if there weren't other big threats to sign him if he keeps playing like a true star). The only kind of trade that would make sense would literally be for a #1 overall pick, or another youngish lesser star plus other valuable pick(s) or player(s).

Yes, when paying guys the max, you always want it to be for the true best guy at that price level like a prime Lebron, KD, Giannis etc - somebody who can be just as good on defense as Coby has been playing on offense, but that's just so unrealistic. The way to make up for paying a 30% max to this version of Coby (should he continue playing like this all of next year) is to start by going dirt cheap where you can - your 3rd string players should be making basically league minimum instead of tens of millions of dollars combined like ours are now. We're paying like $50 million at the C position right now for what amounts to a total of $25 mil in quality IMO. You can't just only try to win when you get literally one of the best handful of 2 way players in the league (the guys that actually deserve the max). Individual player max salary is a lunacy policy in the CBA for this reason. Been screwing up the nba market for like 20+ years or however long it's been.

You guys made some great points!

I would definitely consider trading Coby, but for who/what...that's always the rub, because the answer always matters. Would you guys trade Coby this offseason for:

1) 3 1sts plus 2 swaps...IMO, yes.
2) 3 1sts...probably if they are unprotected
3) 2 1sts...maybe, depending on how likely they are to be lotto picks

I'm with most of you that I don't totally trust Coby's current level of play amidst the tanking part of the season; however, he is passing the eye-test in terms of the types of shots he is taking/making and his newly demonstrated ability to consistently get more foul shots.

If he is able to continue to perform at this level next season, is a MAX contract an overpay? IMO, two factors are worth considering...are we a top 6 team? Did he improve his game over this season? If we are clearly a play-off team with him as our #1 option, that means to me that he is able to generate our offense in a winning context, which matters a lot to me. Also, my favorite aspect of Coby's game is that he is that Jimmy/Taj type offseason worker who keeps improving...not to mention acts as a catalyst for young guys to do the same by emulating him.

The Zach comparison is hard IMO. Zach is capable of being a very-efficient multi-dimensional offensive player. So, I'd be thrilled if they were close in terms of production. IMO, this season, Zach earned his paycheck. My problem with Zach over the years was his lack of durability, not so much his play. I feel like he gets a bad rep because he really was never in a position to be a "winner".

That Zach never got bigger.

Zach was not great against contact. Plus him and Demar never complimented each other.

Zach really should try to get to Dallas.

[PJSteven22]

Are we back in the "Coby had a great month, he's an all-star" discussion again? I like Coby, I sincerely hope that he carries this over and proves me wrong about being the perfect 6th man but a weak starter. But I have seen this movie trailer at least twice before and I will believe it when the full movie is just as good as the trailers.

It’s a different movie though

[eierluke]

If his salary is a 30% max after playing this well then trading him may still be better than keeping him.

The trade vs keep is really comparing two unknowns, one of which is cost and one is return.

In some ways I think trade vs keep is kind of a wash, it is how you align all of your moves together to maximize the trade path or keep path. In the end, it is likely that you won't be excited about Coby on his new deal and also not excited about the return he fetches.

It is clear we want to maximize the keep path based on our other decisions all pointing that way.

In the unlikely event that Coby keeps up his post-all star break performance through all of next year, he's worth 30% max in the relatively unlikely event we have to pay him that (though AK probably would anyway even if there weren't other big threats to sign him if he keeps playing like a true star). The only kind of trade that would make sense would literally be for a #1 overall pick, or another youngish lesser star plus other valuable pick(s) or player(s).

Yes, when paying guys the max, you always want it to be for the true best guy at that price level like a prime Lebron, KD, Giannis etc - somebody who can be just as good on defense as Coby has been playing on offense, but that's just so unrealistic. The way to make up for paying a 30% max to this version of Coby (should he continue playing like this all of next year) is to start by going dirt cheap where you can - your 3rd string players should be making basically league minimum instead of tens of millions of dollars combined like ours are now. We're paying like $50 million at the C position right now for what amounts to a total of $25 mil in quality IMO. You can't just only try to win when you get literally one of the best handful of 2 way players in the league (the guys that actually deserve the max). Individual player max salary is a lunacy policy in the CBA for this reason. Been screwing up the nba market for like 20+ years or however long it's been.

You guys made some great points!

I would definitely consider trading Coby, but for who/what...that's always the rub, because the answer always matters. Would you guys trade Coby this offseason for:

1) 3 1sts plus 2 swaps...IMO, yes.
2) 3 1sts...probably if they are unprotected
3) 2 1sts...maybe, depending on how likely they are to be lotto picks

I'm with most of you that I don't totally trust Coby's current level of play amidst the tanking part of the season; however, he is passing the eye-test in terms of the types of shots he is taking/making and his newly demonstrated ability to consistently get more foul shots.

If he is able to continue to perform at this level next season, is a MAX contract an overpay? IMO, two factors are worth considering...are we a top 6 team? Did he improve his game over this season? If we are clearly a play-off team with him as our #1 option, that means to me that he is able to generate our offense in a winning context, which matters a lot to me. Also, my favorite aspect of Coby's game is that he is that Jimmy/Taj type offseason worker who keeps improving...not to mention acts as a catalyst for young guys to do the same by emulating him.

The Zach comparison is hard IMO. Zach is capable of being a very-efficient multi-dimensional offensive player. So, I'd be thrilled if they were close in terms of production. IMO, this season, Zach earned his paycheck. My problem with Zach over the years was his lack of durability, not so much his play. I feel like he gets a bad rep because he really was never in a position to be a "winner".

Trading for picks is a whole other scenario, but when considering trading Coby White for someone who is already in the league my list is small:
I'd exclue stars beyond their prime like: LeBron, Curry, Durant, etc.
I further think that trading for players still in their prime but already with only a a few years left like: Giannis, Embid, A.Davis, ... does not make sense, because the rest of our team is not a win now roster

Players superior to Coby (probably not available anyway) and still on the rise (like Coby) are:
- Cade Cunningham
- Anthony Edwards
- Evan Mobley
- Gileus Alexander
- Alperen Sengum
- Victor Wembanyana
- Luka Donic
- Paolo Banchero
- Trae Young (with questionmarks to me)
- Tyrese Maxey

Some other younger players come in mind though most of them would be more like a sideway movement and I therefore wouln't risk to destroy something that seems to work (Giddey + Coby + (future) Matas)
-Darius Garland
-Tyler Herro
-Jarren Jackson jr
-Jalen Williams
-Tyrese Haliburton
-Bam Adebayo
-Scottie Barnes
-Franz Wagner

I wouldn't even consider talented accidents waiting to happen like
Zion Williamson or Ja Morant

We have to realize that the list is short (did I forget anybody?). So why not paying, what is necessary to resign him?
The situation (Coby blossoms now that LaVine has been traded) reminds me on the Warriors situation 2012, when they traded top scorer Monta Ellis to cut Steph Curry free

[sco]

In the unlikely event that Coby keeps up his post-all star break performance through all of next year, he's worth 30% max in the relatively unlikely event we have to pay him that (though AK probably would anyway even if there weren't other big threats to sign him if he keeps playing like a true star). The only kind of trade that would make sense would literally be for a #1 overall pick, or another youngish lesser star plus other valuable pick(s) or player(s).

Yes, when paying guys the max, you always want it to be for the true best guy at that price level like a prime Lebron, KD, Giannis etc - somebody who can be just as good on defense as Coby has been playing on offense, but that's just so unrealistic. The way to make up for paying a 30% max to this version of Coby (should he continue playing like this all of next year) is to start by going dirt cheap where you can - your 3rd string players should be making basically league minimum instead of tens of millions of dollars combined like ours are now. We're paying like $50 million at the C position right now for what amounts to a total of $25 mil in quality IMO. You can't just only try to win when you get literally one of the best handful of 2 way players in the league (the guys that actually deserve the max). Individual player max salary is a lunacy policy in the CBA for this reason. Been screwing up the nba market for like 20+ years or however long it's been.

You guys made some great points!

I would definitely consider trading Coby, but for who/what...that's always the rub, because the answer always matters. Would you guys trade Coby this offseason for:

1) 3 1sts plus 2 swaps...IMO, yes.
2) 3 1sts...probably if they are unprotected
3) 2 1sts...maybe, depending on how likely they are to be lotto picks

I'm with most of you that I don't totally trust Coby's current level of play amidst the tanking part of the season; however, he is passing the eye-test in terms of the types of shots he is taking/making and his newly demonstrated ability to consistently get more foul shots.

If he is able to continue to perform at this level next season, is a MAX contract an overpay? IMO, two factors are worth considering...are we a top 6 team? Did he improve his game over this season? If we are clearly a play-off team with him as our #1 option, that means to me that he is able to generate our offense in a winning context, which matters a lot to me. Also, my favorite aspect of Coby's game is that he is that Jimmy/Taj type offseason worker who keeps improving...not to mention acts as a catalyst for young guys to do the same by emulating him.

The Zach comparison is hard IMO. Zach is capable of being a very-efficient multi-dimensional offensive player. So, I'd be thrilled if they were close in terms of production. IMO, this season, Zach earned his paycheck. My problem with Zach over the years was his lack of durability, not so much his play. I feel like he gets a bad rep because he really was never in a position to be a "winner".

Trading for picks is a whole other scenario, but when considering trading Coby White for someone who is already in the league my list is small:
I'd exclue stars beyond their prime like: LeBron, Curry, Durant, etc.
I further think that trading for players still in their prime but already with only a a few years left like: Giannis, Embid, A.Davis, ... does not make sense, because the rest of our team is not a win now roster

Players superior to Coby (probably not available anyway) and still on the rise (like Coby) are:
- Cade Cunningham
- Anthony Edwards
- Evan Mobley
- Gileus Alexander
- Alperen Sengum
- Victor Wembanyana
- Luka Donic
- Paolo Banchero
- Trae Young (with questionmarks to me)
- Tyrese Maxey

Some other younger players come in mind though most of them would be more like a sideway movement and I therefore wouln't risk to destroy something that seems to work (Giddey + Coby + (future) Matas)
-Darius Garland
-Tyler Herro
-Jarren Jackson jr
-Jalen Williams
-Tyrese Haliburton
-Bam Adebayo
-Scottie Barnes
-Franz Wagner

I wouldn't even consider talented accidents waiting to happen like
Zion Williamson or Ja Morant

We have to realize that the list is short (did I forget anybody?). So why not paying, what is necessary to resign him?
The situation (Coby blossoms now that LaVine has been traded) reminds me on the Warriors situation 2012, when they traded top scorer Monta Ellis to cut Steph Curry free

As long as it doesn't remind you of Poole's hot flash there, only to get paid and kill the WAS franchise.

[sco]

I will say that a guy that I've liked every time I've seen him play is EJ Lidell. I think he has rotation-level skill/ability.

[eierluke]

You guys made some great points!

I would definitely consider trading Coby, but for who/what...that's always the rub, because the answer always matters. Would you guys trade Coby this offseason for:

1) 3 1sts plus 2 swaps...IMO, yes.
2) 3 1sts...probably if they are unprotected
3) 2 1sts...maybe, depending on how likely they are to be lotto picks

I'm with most of you that I don't totally trust Coby's current level of play amidst the tanking part of the season; however, he is passing the eye-test in terms of the types of shots he is taking/making and his newly demonstrated ability to consistently get more foul shots.

If he is able to continue to perform at this level next season, is a MAX contract an overpay? IMO, two factors are worth considering...are we a top 6 team? Did he improve his game over this season? If we are clearly a play-off team with him as our #1 option, that means to me that he is able to generate our offense in a winning context, which matters a lot to me. Also, my favorite aspect of Coby's game is that he is that Jimmy/Taj type offseason worker who keeps improving...not to mention acts as a catalyst for young guys to do the same by emulating him.

The Zach comparison is hard IMO. Zach is capable of being a very-efficient multi-dimensional offensive player. So, I'd be thrilled if they were close in terms of production. IMO, this season, Zach earned his paycheck. My problem with Zach over the years was his lack of durability, not so much his play. I feel like he gets a bad rep because he really was never in a position to be a "winner".

Trading for picks is a whole other scenario, but when considering trading Coby White for someone who is already in the league my list is small:
I'd exclue stars beyond their prime like: LeBron, Curry, Durant, etc.
I further think that trading for players still in their prime but already with only a a few years left like: Giannis, Embid, A.Davis, ... does not make sense, because the rest of our team is not a win now roster

Players superior to Coby (probably not available anyway) and still on the rise (like Coby) are:
- Cade Cunningham
- Anthony Edwards
- Evan Mobley
- Gileus Alexander
- Alperen Sengum
- Victor Wembanyana
- Luka Donic
- Paolo Banchero
- Trae Young (with questionmarks to me)
- Tyrese Maxey

Some other younger players come in mind though most of them would be more like a sideway movement and I therefore wouln't risk to destroy something that seems to work (Giddey + Coby + (future) Matas)
-Darius Garland
-Tyler Herro
-Jarren Jackson jr
-Jalen Williams
-Tyrese Haliburton
-Bam Adebayo
-Scottie Barnes
-Franz Wagner

I wouldn't even consider talented accidents waiting to happen like
Zion Williamson or Ja Morant

We have to realize that the list is short (did I forget anybody?). So why not paying, what is necessary to resign him?
The situation (Coby blossoms now that LaVine has been traded) reminds me on the Warriors situation 2012, when they traded top scorer Monta Ellis to cut Steph Curry free

As long as it doesn't remind you of Poole's hot flash there, only to get paid and kill the WAS franchise.

Yes everybody will remember the rough start Jordan Pole had in Washington, but it appears as if he is coming around this season.

[eierluke]

I will say that a guy that I've liked every time I've seen him play is EJ Lidell. I think he has rotation-level skill/ability.

what position does EJ Liddell play for us, SF?

[sco]

I will say that a guy that I've liked every time I've seen him play is EJ Lidell. I think he has rotation-level skill/ability.

what position does EJ Liddell play for us, SF?

I think he's a 4. I mean he won't make next year's roster, but it would be good to keep him on a 2 way

[MAQ]

With the emergence of Coby's dominant play, he is criminally underpaid.

AKME gave Pat Williams a 5 year contract but only gave Coby/Ayo a 3 year contract. What a shame as Coby could have been locked away even longer.

There was no way Coby was gonna lock himself into a 5 year deal at 12 mil.

Maybe if that offer was 20-25 mil. But then everyone would have called AK nuts, including myself.

[Dez]

If his salary is a 30% max after playing this well then trading him may still be better than keeping him.

The trade vs keep is really comparing two unknowns, one of which is cost and one is return.

In some ways I think trade vs keep is kind of a wash, it is how you align all of your moves together to maximize the trade path or keep path. In the end, it is likely that you won't be excited about Coby on his new deal and also not excited about the return he fetches.

It is clear we want to maximize the keep path based on our other decisions all pointing that way.

In the unlikely event that Coby keeps up his post-all star break performance through all of next year, he's worth 30% max in the relatively unlikely event we have to pay him that (though AK probably would anyway even if there weren't other big threats to sign him if he keeps playing like a true star). The only kind of trade that would make sense would literally be for a #1 overall pick, or another youngish lesser star plus other valuable pick(s) or player(s).

Yes, when paying guys the max, you always want it to be for the true best guy at that price level like a prime Lebron, KD, Giannis etc - somebody who can be just as good on defense as Coby has been playing on offense, but that's just so unrealistic. The way to make up for paying a 30% max to this version of Coby (should he continue playing like this all of next year) is to start by going dirt cheap where you can - your 3rd string players should be making basically league minimum instead of tens of millions of dollars combined like ours are now. We're paying like $50 million at the C position right now for what amounts to a total of $25 mil in quality IMO. You can't just only try to win when you get literally one of the best handful of 2 way players in the league (the guys that actually deserve the max). Individual player max salary is a lunacy policy in the CBA for this reason. Been screwing up the nba market for like 20+ years or however long it's been.

You guys made some great points!

I would definitely consider trading Coby, but for who/what...that's always the rub, because the answer always matters. Would you guys trade Coby this offseason for:

1) 3 1sts plus 2 swaps...IMO, yes.
2) 3 1sts...probably if they are unprotected
3) 2 1sts...maybe, depending on how likely they are to be lotto picks

I'm with most of you that I don't totally trust Coby's current level of play amidst the tanking part of the season; however, he is passing the eye-test in terms of the types of shots he is taking/making and his newly demonstrated ability to consistently get more foul shots.

If he is able to continue to perform at this level next season, is a MAX contract an overpay? IMO, two factors are worth considering...are we a top 6 team? Did he improve his game over this season? If we are clearly a play-off team with him as our #1 option, that means to me that he is able to generate our offense in a winning context, which matters a lot to me. Also, my favorite aspect of Coby's game is that he is that Jimmy/Taj type offseason worker who keeps improving...not to mention acts as a catalyst for young guys to do the same by emulating him.

The Zach comparison is hard IMO. Zach is capable of being a very-efficient multi-dimensional offensive player. So, I'd be thrilled if they were close in terms of production. IMO, this season, Zach earned his paycheck. My problem with Zach over the years was his lack of durability, not so much his play. I feel like he gets a bad rep because he really was never in a position to be a "winner".

Nobody is giving that many picks or swaps for Coby White unless they are heavily protected. If Coby had that sort of value he would have been gone at the deadline before he could even blink.

There is a serious level of delusion here when it comes to his trade value.

[jnrjr79]

In the unlikely event that Coby keeps up his post-all star break performance through all of next year, he's worth 30% max in the relatively unlikely event we have to pay him that (though AK probably would anyway even if there weren't other big threats to sign him if he keeps playing like a true star). The only kind of trade that would make sense would literally be for a #1 overall pick, or another youngish lesser star plus other valuable pick(s) or player(s).

Yes, when paying guys the max, you always want it to be for the true best guy at that price level like a prime Lebron, KD, Giannis etc - somebody who can be just as good on defense as Coby has been playing on offense, but that's just so unrealistic. The way to make up for paying a 30% max to this version of Coby (should he continue playing like this all of next year) is to start by going dirt cheap where you can - your 3rd string players should be making basically league minimum instead of tens of millions of dollars combined like ours are now. We're paying like $50 million at the C position right now for what amounts to a total of $25 mil in quality IMO. You can't just only try to win when you get literally one of the best handful of 2 way players in the league (the guys that actually deserve the max). Individual player max salary is a lunacy policy in the CBA for this reason. Been screwing up the nba market for like 20+ years or however long it's been.

You guys made some great points!

I would definitely consider trading Coby, but for who/what...that's always the rub, because the answer always matters. Would you guys trade Coby this offseason for:

1) 3 1sts plus 2 swaps...IMO, yes.
2) 3 1sts...probably if they are unprotected
3) 2 1sts...maybe, depending on how likely they are to be lotto picks

I'm with most of you that I don't totally trust Coby's current level of play amidst the tanking part of the season; however, he is passing the eye-test in terms of the types of shots he is taking/making and his newly demonstrated ability to consistently get more foul shots.

If he is able to continue to perform at this level next season, is a MAX contract an overpay? IMO, two factors are worth considering...are we a top 6 team? Did he improve his game over this season? If we are clearly a play-off team with him as our #1 option, that means to me that he is able to generate our offense in a winning context, which matters a lot to me. Also, my favorite aspect of Coby's game is that he is that Jimmy/Taj type offseason worker who keeps improving...not to mention acts as a catalyst for young guys to do the same by emulating him.

The Zach comparison is hard IMO. Zach is capable of being a very-efficient multi-dimensional offensive player. So, I'd be thrilled if they were close in terms of production. IMO, this season, Zach earned his paycheck. My problem with Zach over the years was his lack of durability, not so much his play. I feel like he gets a bad rep because he really was never in a position to be a "winner".

Nobody is giving that many picks or swaps for Coby White unless they are heavily protected. If Coby had that sort of value he would have been gone at the deadline before he could even blink.

There is a serious level of delusion here when it comes to his trade value.

I imagine Coby's stock has increased quite a bit post-deadline, due to teams seeing what he can do in a lead role, but the fact that you effectively cannot extend him really limits his trade value.