Cowley: Bulls Zoned in on Demin at 12

[Chi town]

He allows you to trade Giddey or Coby. Plus it saves on cap space.

He isn't going to be anything in the NBA for years. If he allows you to trade Giddey or Coby then you can trade Giddey or Coby now with nothing.

I have looked around and none of the guys who might be available at 12 impress me. All of them have major holes that they are going to have to spend years working on to fix. If they think Demin is the guy most likely to do that, then fine. I just don't see anyone available as being a big contributor next year.

Not going to be popular, or maybe it will be, but if Buzelis was available in this draft he would be top 5. This really doesn't seem like a particularly good draft year.

Disclaimer: I don't watch college Bball. All I know is what I have read here and elsewhere.

I understand that all the guys at 12 have holes. Usually at 12, you might have a guy who put up prolific scoring numbers in college, but plays no defense and needs development with his handles. Or a big who dominated inside in college but needs to develop the rest of his game. Or a facilitator who showed elite point skills but needs to develop his shot and defense. Or a ball handler who also plays elite defense but is going to have to develop a way not to be a player the opposing defense can ignore.

What I am trying to decipher from what I read is; what, exactly does this guy already do well? Is there some near elite skill that helps offset everything he will need to work on? I get this sense that we are talking another PWill type pick. I get having to draft "all potential" once you get past the top 20 or so players. But why is it the Bulls, picking in the top half of the first round, are always focused on major projects? Is this another 6'9" guy who has shown nothing? We will hear about his handles only to find he is a turnover machine (the college numbers and comments kind of lean that way). I mean at least PWill does actually drain 3's at a high rate.

All that to say "someone help me understand" lol

AK sucks. No one can understand.

Our only hope is Billy starts calling the shots instead of AK. Billy has said he wants the challenge of a rebuild and he obviously loves Buz and really helped him improve through challenging him.

[CROBulls]

My only hope, and it's a legit one, it's that if you were going to make up one lie about who you were focused on to misdirect other teams to NOT trade up to get ahead of you and take the guy you'd really want, it would be Demin. In essence, he's literally the LAST guy the Bulls should want in this range, so it would make sense to lie about it. Teams interested in your target will be less likely to trade up to take whoever that is, and a team that wants Demin will be more likely to trade up and help your real guy fall to you. I want to say this all seems obvious, also as a way to flush out who if anyone leaks to Cowley, but I'm still scared. Drafting Demin would push me to the edge of walking away as a fan, especially in the likely event that they don't make a great trade with Giddey.

You gonna walk out now because of Demin? Not because we gave a half a decade of picks for Vic and DeRozan. Or 27 years without ring or 15 years since Conference Finals. And 14 years with true franchise player on roster?

It is his decision and how dare you tell someone when they can get feed up with something.

Who are you?
It is his personal choice and he has that right.

I know. But it's just on what principles people quit and get feed up. Like Egor Demin was your trigger. It's certainly story for memory.

[Almost Retired]

He isn't going to be anything in the NBA for years. If he allows you to trade Giddey or Coby then you can trade Giddey or Coby now with nothing.

I have looked around and none of the guys who might be available at 12 impress me. All of them have major holes that they are going to have to spend years working on to fix. If they think Demin is the guy most likely to do that, then fine. I just don't see anyone available as being a big contributor next year.

Not going to be popular, or maybe it will be, but if Buzelis was available in this draft he would be top 5. This really doesn't seem like a particularly good draft year.

Disclaimer: I don't watch college Bball. All I know is what I have read here and elsewhere.

I understand that all the guys at 12 have holes. Usually at 12, you might have a guy who put up prolific scoring numbers in college, but plays no defense and needs development with his handles. Or a big who dominated inside in college but needs to develop the rest of his game. Or a facilitator who showed elite point skills but needs to develop his shot and defense. Or a ball handler who also plays elite defense but is going to have to develop a way not to be a player the opposing defense can ignore.

What I am trying to decipher from what I read is; what, exactly does this guy already do well? Is there some near elite skill that helps offset everything he will need to work on? I get this sense that we are talking another PWill type pick. I get having to draft "all potential" once you get past the top 20 or so players. But why is it the Bulls, picking in the top half of the first round, are always focused on major projects? Is this another 6'9" guy who has shown nothing? We will hear about his handles only to find he is a turnover machine (the college numbers and comments kind of lean that way). I mean at least PWill does actually drain 3's at a high rate.

All that to say "someone help me understand" lol

AK sucks. No one can understand.

Our only hope is Billy starts calling the shots instead of AK. Billy has said he wants the challenge of a rebuild and he obviously loves Buz and really helped him improve through challenging him.

I bet AK could build a championship team in one of the European leagues

[Red Larrivee]

In a vacuum, I don't think Demin is terrible. He's respectfully in a large tier of players who are clumped together well into the Bulls range. His shot percentages are bad, but his mechanics are definitely workable.

I just think if the Bulls are going to draft another player who needs shooting improvement, then they need a different skill set that's more probable to stay on the floor for them going forward while that materializes. Maluach and Murray Boyles fit that bill to me. Demin doesn't seem so good to not be concerned with redundancy.

We already have a ton of wings who we are sacrificing shooting for to get on the floor.

[Jcool0]

Our only hope is Billy starts calling the shots instead of AK. Billy has said he wants the challenge of a rebuild and he obviously loves Buz and really helped him improve through challenging him.

Did he actually do anything to help? I saw a coach trying to win games with vets and begrudgingly having to play Matas because he was to good to keep on the bench. I saw Matas more then once score 10 points in the first half and then get 5 minutes in the 2nd. Not sure what the lesson was there... learn to score 20 first half points?

[sco]

In a vacuum, I don't think Demin is terrible. He's respectfully in a large tier of players who are clumped together well into the Bulls range. His shot percentages are bad, but his mechanics are definitely workable.

I just think if the Bulls are going to draft another player who needs shooting improvement, then they need a different skill set that's more probable to stay on the floor for them going forward while that materializes. Maluach and Murray Boyles fit that bill to me. Demin doesn't seem so good to not be concerned with redundancy.

We already have a ton of wings who we are sacrificing shooting for to get on the floor.

At least we couldn't claim they drafted for need with Demin.

[burlydee]

you just said demin's top skills are "being fluid" and "good not great passing instincts", that he was a bad shooter in college, wasn't explosive, didn't use his size as an advantage on drives, isn't shifty 1-on-1, doesn't inspire confidence in his ability to get to the lane at the nba level, and that you have a lot of questions about his finishing ability

that, to me, does not sound like a "high floor" player. it sounds like he might suck really bad!

Youre free to watch him play and draw your own conclusions.

I can't think of many legit 6'9 guys who handle the ball like him and are really fluid athletes who have not found some place in the league. He's 2 inches taller than Aaron Gordon, Slow-Mo. Taller than Ben Simmons.

That is why I said shooting was the swing skill for him. If he shoots 38% that's a player who has an immediate pathway to success in the league bc he can pass and play multiple spots.

If he shoots 32% he may struggle to see the floor. But that is literally true for any non big in this range. I'm just trying to understand what professional scouts see in him. Huge guys who can dribble, pass and shoot typically make it in the NBA.

[MrSparkle]

Denim’s looked like one of the higher ceiling prospects in the late lotto. Frankly I’m not sure stays at 12 if his workouts are going well.

Giannis and Giddey (as 2 random examples) couldn’t shoot either, as prospects. Would you rather draft a Patrick Williams or McDermott, since they could shoot?

Get the best prospect- period.

[pipfan]

What I like about Newell is I want to play big, moving Matas to the 3. That would make a pair of huge forwards long term, and help our D a lot

[League Circles]

Hopefully this ends up reflecting poorly on Cowley.

[League Circles]

What I like about Newell is I want to play big, moving Matas to the 3. That would make a pair of huge forwards long term, and help our D a lot

I don't think forcing Giddey to guard quicker guards will help our D.

[Chi town]

What I like about Newell is I want to play big, moving Matas to the 3. That would make a pair of huge forwards long term, and help our D a lot

Billy does not approve of this message.

He barely played Buz and Pat together.

Guide us out 3 and Buz our 4 so Billy can play his guards.

[DuckIII]

Denim’s looked like one of the higher ceiling prospects in the late lotto. Frankly I’m not sure stays at 12 if his workouts are going well.

Giannis and Giddey (as 2 random examples) couldn’t shoot either, as prospects. Would you rather draft a Patrick Williams or McDermott, since they could shoot?

Get the best prospect- period.

Everyone wants ready made shooters. Including FOs. You’d think we as a fan base would see through that mistake a little more clearly considering it is literally the reason we have Buzelis, and therefore any hope splashed within our collective misery. It’s also why we were able to get Giddey for an often injured 30+ year old defensive specialist owed an extension.

Adequate NBA shooters can be made. They can also be signed. Shooting is an important criteria but it’s taken on an almost mandatory status that it absolutely does not deserve. Taking advantage of GMs who make that mistake is one way to maximize late lottery picks.

This is not about Demin specifically. He also has major defensive question marks from an athleticism standpoint. Just saying the shooting obsession is a good thing so long as we are the team not being overly influenced by it.

[Chi town]

Coward is probably the best fit in the draft for a Buz Giddey Coby core.

[Chi town]

Denim’s looked like one of the higher ceiling prospects in the late lotto. Frankly I’m not sure stays at 12 if his workouts are going well.

Giannis and Giddey (as 2 random examples) couldn’t shoot either, as prospects. Would you rather draft a Patrick Williams or McDermott, since they could shoot?

Get the best prospect- period.

Everyone wants ready made shooters. Including FOs. You’d think we as a fan base would see through that mistake a little more clearly considering it is literally the reason we have Buzelis, and therefore any hope splashed within our collective misery, and to a lesser extent Giddey.

Adequate NBA shooters can be made. They can also be signed. Shooting is an important criteria but it’s taken on an almost mandatory status that if absolutely does not deserve. Taking advantage of GMs who make that mistake is one way to maximize late lottery picks.

This is not about Demin specifically. He also has major defensive question marks from an athleticism standpoint as well. Just saying the shooting obsession is a good thing so long as we are the team not being o rely influenced by it.

Fully agree. His 60% FT is what really makes me question.

Buz shot FTs well and his HS 3 ball was good.

Demin played a ton in college and all his shooting numbers sucked.

His form does look really good though in the workouts.

[DuckIII]

Denim’s looked like one of the higher ceiling prospects in the late lotto. Frankly I’m not sure stays at 12 if his workouts are going well.

Giannis and Giddey (as 2 random examples) couldn’t shoot either, as prospects. Would you rather draft a Patrick Williams or McDermott, since they could shoot?

Get the best prospect- period.

Everyone wants ready made shooters. Including FOs. You’d think we as a fan base would see through that mistake a little more clearly considering it is literally the reason we have Buzelis, and therefore any hope splashed within our collective misery, and to a lesser extent Giddey.

Adequate NBA shooters can be made. They can also be signed. Shooting is an important criteria but it’s taken on an almost mandatory status that if absolutely does not deserve. Taking advantage of GMs who make that mistake is one way to maximize late lottery picks.

This is not about Demin specifically. He also has major defensive question marks from an athleticism standpoint as well. Just saying the shooting obsession is a good thing so long as we are the team not being o rely influenced by it.

Fully agree. His 60% FT is what really makes me question.

Buz shot FTs well and his HS 3 ball was good.

Demin played a ton in college and all his shooting numbers sucked.

His form does look really good though in the workouts.

He shot 70% ft (0.695). He has the mechanics. I’m not worried about his 3 ball becoming “good enough” before his rookie deal expires.

To me the reason to pass on Demin at 12 and why I have CMB slightly ahead of him, is D. That’s the big red flag to me.

[Dan Z]

Exactly!

His floor is out of the league no 2nd contract.

Worse than Dalen Terry?

His shot numbers look very similar to Dalen and Dalen plays way better D.

Didn't people also think that Terry was a good passer for his size? I seem to recall that some thought he should play PG.

[DuckIII]

Worse than Dalen Terry?

His shot numbers look very similar to Dalen and Dalen plays way better D.

Didn't people also think that Terry was a good passer for his size? I seem to recall that some thought he should play PG.

He was a good passer in college. Haven’t really seen it in the NBA. He also could have never played point in the NBA. His handles stink.

But there are two really important things being overlooked by anyone invoking Terry’s name in a conversation about Demin:

1. There is an ocean between Terry’s passing ability as a prospect and Demin’s.

2. Demin’s shot mechanics are strong. All the fundamentals are there for a teenager to improve. Terry’s shot mechanics were completely broken (and though improved, are still poor).

[Jstock12]

Vecenie had Demin as the #3 pick early in the year before his shot stopped falling. This is really the key with Demin. Defenses need to respect his shot for him to fully unlock that ridiculous vision of his. He doesn't have a great first step to create separation, so the threat of a shot has to be that thing that helps him create an advantage. I guess the same thing can be said about KJ to some extent.

[sco]

Went back and watched his highlights:

Watch on YouTube

A few observations:
- He is a highlight reel with his passing - lobs, no-looks, including no-looks through his legs...of course leads to a lot of TO's as his teammates get surprised too, but when they connect it's beautiful.
- He's got a decent handle and finishing ability with both hands.
- His 3pt form isn't bad, but he starts his shot too low and his arc is pretty flat.
- He relies on his length too much on defense, but has good anticipation.
- He's not super quick nor does he have a big verticle game, but seems to read the floor well and uses craftiness instead.
- Looks very Giddey-like...good and bad.