Vucevic Trade Watch 2025

[rosenthall]

I will add that don't think Vuc is terrible. He's just a terrible fit here, paid probably $5M too much (not terrible), but mostly we WAY overpaid to get him (sunk cost).

I would agree annoyance of Vuc comes down to these things:
1: How much we paid to get him
2: How much his skillset misfits our needs (we desperately need a good defensive center because we keep building around poor defensive perimeter players)
3: That we didn't trade him each of the past three years
4: That we extended him without really playing the market at all and overpaid

The practical scenario is that Vuc is now an expiring contract player that's probably paid somewhere between 5-12M too much money for a single season, while certainly not something that's great, you could say the same about Zach Collins this year, the difference being that Zach Collins doesn't have any of those other four pieces of baggage hanging on his back.

There is a lot of Vuc fatigue. There's no bigger detractor of Vuc over his tenure here than me, but he's now just an expiring contract, nothing to worry about.

To extend this line of thinking......

1). It's been shown over and over that Billie only needs two centers on his roster, so it's redundant to have 3 that make a combined 45 million
2). None of our centers are impact players and are bunched together in terms of impact, albeit with different styles
3). They all have contracts that end this year or next

Ergo, it really makes sense to trade the one that gives the most return back, and let the other two ride out their contracts here.

[dougthonus]

To extend this line of thinking......

1). It's been shown over and over that Billie only needs two centers on his roster, so it's redundant to have 3 that make a combined 45 million
2). None of our centers are impact players and are bunched together in terms of impact, albeit with different styles
3). They all have contracts that end this year or next

Ergo, it really makes sense to trade the one that gives the most return back, and let the other two ride out their contracts here.

I'm not sure any of those centers can return something positive.

[Stratmaster]

Yep, I agree it wouldn't be likely to help. On your last 2 bullets, it would simply take the guesswork out of it for the team trading for him. Especially if they aren't a destination Vuc is wild about.

Sure, it feels very niche though, because you'd need these things to be true:
You want to trade him to a team that he won't sign an extension with
A team he doesn't want to go to, still wants him for multiple years

These things very unlikely to me.

Honestly, at 10 mil a season I wouldn't care if they kept Vuc in a backup/mentor role. It isn't like they are going anywhere anytime soon anyway, and there aren't enough promising 18 to 21 year old players on the roster for me to consider Vuc's roster spot critical. I just don't want to see him ever playing 30+ mpg again.

I would add a few general thoughts:
1: 15 minute a game centers are usually vet min guys, not 10M a year guys, so while I wouldn't mind Vuc so much if we limited his role, I wouldn't want to pay 10M for it. Especially since he's not really a natural fit on the roster anyway where we really need defensive oriented centers.

2: I think it would be good just to move on from these old regime guys.

That said, if his deal expired, and he signed here for like 2/10 or something for two more years and was paid to clearly be the backup and accepted that role, I wouldn't be my preference vs a different backup center to turn the page, but it wouldn't matter much to me.

That all makes sense.

As far as the 10 mil versus the vet minimum; I'm just not sure it really makes any difference for the next couple seasons. You have to pay someone. In 26/27, you have 33 million committed salary (assuming they keep Buz, which barring anything outrageous happening they will) plus whatever you pay Giddey, Coby and maybe Ayo. Anyone else they keep (like, Phillips for example) would be for peanuts and just to fill roster spots. Sadly, 18 mil of that is Williams. If they somehow unload him for an expiring this season, that number is 15 mil plus those 3 players. Ball has a prove it year this coming season. If he balls out (pun intended) that is another 10 mil to keep him for 26/27.

So worst case you have Giddey, Buz, Coby, Smith, Williams and maybe Ayo, and are committed to somewhere around 100 mil in salaries (allowing 67 mil for Giddey/Coby/Ayo). Best case you shed Williams and have about 80 mil in salaries. I also don't see the point in keeping both Coby and Ayo. If you can get Coby at a price that would be digestible for your 6th man you keep Coby. Obviously they have to pay their draft picks as well and would still have to fill out a roster. But I don't see where any 10 mil contract is going to be an issue. The key is that Vuc isn't still seeing playing time by 26/27 and they don't do something stupid like extend him for his current salary. But yeah, if they can find a deal, certainly better to trade him.

[dougthonus]

That all makes sense.

As far as the 10 mil versus the vet minimum; I'm just not sure it really makes any difference for the next couple seasons. You have to pay someone. In 26/27, you have 33 million committed salary (assuming they keep Buz, which barring anything outrageous happening they will) plus whatever you pay Giddey, Coby and maybe Ayo. Anyone else they keep (like, Phillips for example) would be for peanuts and just to fill roster spots. Sadly, 18 mil of that is Williams. If they somehow unload him for an expiring this season, that number is 15 mil plus those 3 players. Ball has a prove it year this coming season. If he balls out (pun intended) that is another 10 mil to keep him for 26/27.

So worst case you have Giddey, Buz, Coby, Smith, Williams and maybe Ayo, and are committed to somewhere around 100 mil in salaries (allowing 67 mil for Giddey/Coby/Ayo). Best case you shed Williams and have about 80 mil in salaries. I also don't see the point in keeping both Coby and Ayo. If you can get Coby at a price that would be digestible for your 6th man you keep Coby. Obviously they have to pay their draft picks as well and would still have to fill out a roster. But I don't see where any 10 mil contract is going to be an issue. The key is that Vuc isn't still seeing playing time by 26/27 and they don't do something stupid like extend him for his current salary. But yeah, if they can find a deal, certainly better to trade him.

You are under the cap that year so every dollar you keep on the roster is one dollar less you have to pick new, different free agents that could come instead, so the only reason to do that is if you think that Vuc will sign an extension now for a deal that is better for you than the one he would sign in the off-season and also better than all the players you could get at the same price in the off-season.

This argument would be more compelling when you have he bird rights trap and it's either pay Vuc or sit on the money because you can't use it otherwise. Here we can very directly apply the money to different players.

In some ways the "it doesn't matter" paradox applies to almost all moves the Bulls might make. They seem hell bent on trying to build via a combination of short term moves without the type of assets where success is likely. So not fully utilizing short term assets may not be a big loss given we'll probably not utilize them in a way I'm excited about anyway.

In this sense, I think the odds are you are right, it won't really make a difference, because nothing will make a difference with this FO, but I'm going to still argue for as good of moves as possible rather than work under the assumption we'll just always do dumb things. I don't see any meaningful benefit to add years on to Vuc. All the reasons you might do it can generally just been at the time you need it vs in advance.

[rosenthall]

To extend this line of thinking......

1). It's been shown over and over that Billie only needs two centers on his roster, so it's redundant to have 3 that make a combined 45 million
2). None of our centers are impact players and are bunched together in terms of impact, albeit with different styles
3). They all have contracts that end this year or next

Ergo, it really makes sense to trade the one that gives the most return back, and let the other two ride out their contracts here.

I'm not sure any of those centers can return something positive.

I doubt any of them would return much, but I think Smith & Collins have more trade value than Vuc. They fit more easily onto most rosters. Agree though that none of them get you much. If you're not taking back extra salary you're probably talking a few 2nd rounders and nothing more.

But it still makes sense to try and remove one of them. Preferably during the offseason but the trade deadline might help their value since teams might be looking for situational help then.

[dougthonus]

I doubt any of them would return much, but I think Smith & Collins have more trade value than Vuc. They fit more easily onto most rosters. Agree though that none of them get you much. If you're not taking back extra salary you're probably talking a few 2nd rounders and nothing more.

But it still makes sense to try and remove one of them. Preferably during the offseason but the trade deadline might help their value since teams might be looking for situational help then.

I think if you look at those guys as contracts and you are moving them due to their contractual value rather than thinking they have on court value, I would agree.

Those would also be the most useful trades IMO given our short term odds are not so great.

[Am2626]

I don't think he's a bad locker room guy or anything, but he pouts on the court when he doesn't get shots and doesn't hustle consistently on either side of the ball. Definitely not a great lead by example guy in terms of instilling good habits on the court. That said, he did seem better 2nd half of the year.

His on court moodiness drives me nuts. He does stay healthy though I will give him that and no off court drama.

Dude may be the most dramatic vet I’ve seen.

We are calling a 22 year old a Vet. Kuminga is far from a finished product. The Bulls need more high upside players like him and have to hope he reaches his potential if they want to get out of NBA hell.

[burlydee]

His on court moodiness drives me nuts. He does stay healthy though I will give him that and no off court drama.

Dude may be the most dramatic vet I’ve seen.

We are calling a 22 year old a Vet. Kuminga is far from a finished product. The Bulls need more high upside players like him and have to hope he reaches his potential if they want to get out of NBA hell.

If Golden State is willing to sign and trade Kuminga for Vuc you call that into the NBA immediately, no deliberations. If the Bulls aren't going to tank, which they aren't, this is the kind of high upside young guy they should target.

[dougthonus]

His on court moodiness drives me nuts. He does stay healthy though I will give him that and no off court drama.

Dude may be the most dramatic vet I’ve seen.

We are calling a 22 year old a Vet. Kuminga is far from a finished product. The Bulls need more high upside players like him and have to hope he reaches his potential if they want to get out of NBA hell.

The comments were about Vuc, not Kuminga.

[dougthonus]

If Golden State is willing to sign and trade Kuminga for Vuc you call that into the NBA immediately, no deliberations. If the Bulls aren't going to tank, which they aren't, this is the kind of high upside young guy they should target.

The question in a GS S&T for Kuminga is more about how much you have to pay Kuminga. You don't have infinite salary, this isn't a talent for talent trade. It's a trade that is only available if GS doesn't want Kuminga and you are willing to be high bidder and can compensate GS enough that it's better than nothing.

[burlydee]

If Golden State is willing to sign and trade Kuminga for Vuc you call that into the NBA immediately, no deliberations. If the Bulls aren't going to tank, which they aren't, this is the kind of high upside young guy they should target.

The question in a GS S&T for Kuminga is more about how much you have to pay Kuminga. You don't have infinite salary, this isn't a talent for talent trade. It's a trade that is only available if GS doesn't want Kuminga and you are willing to be high bidder and can compensate GS enough that it's better than nothing.

I'm willing to go as high as $20 million a year which i think will be close to the high end of offers. I just don't know under what other circumstances the Bulls are going to be able to acquire better than mid level salary talent outside the draft.

[Chi town]

If Golden State is willing to sign and trade Kuminga for Vuc you call that into the NBA immediately, no deliberations. If the Bulls aren't going to tank, which they aren't, this is the kind of high upside young guy they should target.

The question in a GS S&T for Kuminga is more about how much you have to pay Kuminga. You don't have infinite salary, this isn't a talent for talent trade. It's a trade that is only available if GS doesn't want Kuminga and you are willing to be high bidder and can compensate GS enough that it's better than nothing.

Exactly.

Word from GS is no one wants him and they are talking about resigning him. Kerr doesn’t like him because he doesn’t fit his system. I don’t think he’s back.

Vuc trade with Dubs would be around Moody IMO.

[ChettheJet]

To me, if you're the Bulls you don't want to be like way too many around here, and talk yourself into believing that Kuminga is the primary answer to what you need. He might develop into a key piece who plays 34 mpg, scores and rebounds and you're happy that he's around for an extension down the road. If that was that so much of a sure bet GSW wouldn't be so willing to move him.

There's a lot happening in a lot of NBA team offices that doesn't get to the dozen guys who live on their smart phones and put out all the rumors. Plenty of GM's have their eye on a kid to draft on one board and are looking at another to see how they move one or more of their veterans to make room for him. So I refuse to get caught up in thinking Kuminga is the answer because there are probably 8 other guys who 8 other teams are willing to let go because they got drafted by the previous regime.

The other thing to step back and see is trading Vuc more than likely is going to involve a 3rd or 4th team. Two team deals are obvious because they either match or they don't. Other teams probably don't want to undergo the scrutiny of trading somebody their fan base likes for Mr. Nikola No Defense so they and the Bulls join in on a trade for higher priced bigger names and spread out what they're doing. Evidence is the Zach Lavine trade, SAC didn't seem like they would make a straight up deal for Zach but once SAS got involved with Fox the pieces moved around more easily.

I believe that there are teams that have looked past his defense and think Vuc changes their seeding in the regular season and helps their half court playoff offense so they'll take a one season chance on him. They don't spread that thinking around so the Bulls gain any leverage in a deal but they're considering it.

[burlydee]

To me, if you're the Bulls you don't want to be like way too many around here, and talk yourself into believing that Kuminga is the primary answer to what you need. He might develop into a key piece who plays 34 mpg, scores and rebounds and you're happy that he's around for an extension down the road. If that was that so much of a sure bet GSW wouldn't be so willing to move him.

There's a lot happening in a lot of NBA team offices that doesn't get to the dozen guys who live on their smart phones and put out all the rumors. Plenty of GM's have their eye on a kid to draft on one board and are looking at another to see how they move one or more of their veterans to make room for him. So I refuse to get caught up in thinking Kuminga is the answer because there are probably 8 other guys who 8 other teams are willing to let go because they got drafted by the previous regime.

The other thing to step back and see is trading Vuc more than likely is going to involve a 3rd or 4th team. Two team deals are obvious because they either match or they don't. Other teams probably don't want to undergo the scrutiny of trading somebody their fan base likes for Mr. Nikola No Defense so they and the Bulls join in on a trade for higher priced bigger names and spread out what they're doing. Evidence is the Zach Lavine trade, SAC didn't seem like they would make a straight up deal for Zach but once SAS got involved with Fox the pieces moved around more easily.

I believe that there are teams that have looked past his defense and think Vuc changes their seeding in the regular season and helps their half court playoff offense so they'll take a one season chance on him. They don't spread that thinking around so the Bulls gain any leverage in a deal but they're considering it.

I don't think Kuminga is the answer. There isn't one answer. The Bulls need to acquire as much talent as possible. Beggars can't be choosers. If you can get talent at market value in exchange for a guy who doesn't want to be here, you do it.

People were making similar arguments against Giddey. If this great, smart team of geniuses doesn't want him, he must be useless. But the real reason was he didn't fit.

Kerr is a fine coach but he's also a coach who couldn't figure out how to incorporate Jayson freaking Tatum in the Olympics. Billy's system is perfect for Kuminga and the Bulls need guys who will attack the rim in the half court and on the break. I think there is room on the court for him, especially if Bulls move Vuc who is still a huge part of the offense.

Part of the reason you target Kuminga is there aren't too many other possibilities out there and the Bulls don't have the assets to get them.

It may be all moot bc it looks like Golden State will retain him and probably wait to make a move, but still think Bulls make smart suitors.

[Michael Jackson]

Dude may be the most dramatic vet I’ve seen.

We are calling a 22 year old a Vet. Kuminga is far from a finished product. The Bulls need more high upside players like him and have to hope he reaches his potential if they want to get out of NBA hell.

The comments were about Vuc, not Kuminga.

Yes Vuc.

[kodo]

If Golden State is willing to sign and trade Kuminga for Vuc you call that into the NBA immediately, no deliberations. If the Bulls aren't going to tank, which they aren't, this is the kind of high upside young guy they should target.

The question in a GS S&T for Kuminga is more about how much you have to pay Kuminga. You don't have infinite salary, this isn't a talent for talent trade. It's a trade that is only available if GS doesn't want Kuminga and you are willing to be high bidder and can compensate GS enough that it's better than nothing.

Yes...and should be pretty low since only BKN is projected to have cap space and the early rumors are the BKN isn't going to make an offer to any FA, they're going to use the space to absorb contract in one of the big Giannis/KD deals upcoming and demand a load of picks to get it done. Kills the FA market for Giddey and Kuminga and Naz Reid and everyone else.

I wonder if Kuminga is going to make less than he wants, he asks for a trade to someplace like Chicago vs staying on the bench in GS. A young PF taking all of Vuc's minutes & shots? Who wouldn't want that.

[GuardianEnzo]

The Bulls should 100% be doing what the Nets are supposedly doing. The siren’s song of 2026 cap space is just that - there will be many teams with space and almost all of them more attractive destinations without front offices that are laughingstocks. Use that leverage now, gather assets with it, and sign Giddey to a reasonably team-friendly extension because no one else has the space to go after him.

[Muzbar]

I don't think there'll be anything to watch, I don't believe he'll be traded.

AK will hold out for a FRP and no team will give him one.

[Dan Z]

The Bulls should 100% be doing what the Nets are supposedly doing. The siren’s song of 2026 cap space is just that - there will be many teams with space and almost all of them more attractive destinations without front offices that are laughingstocks. Use that leverage now, gather assets with it, and sign Giddey to a reasonably team-friendly extension because no one else has the space to go after him.

I agree with you, but would be surprised if AK used cap space to acquire picks (or other assets). Keep in mind that this is a guy who didn't want to take on Harrison Barnes to get a future swap with the Kings.

[dougthonus]

Yes...and should be pretty low since only BKN is projected to have cap space and the early rumors are the BKN isn't going to make an offer to any FA, they're going to use the space to absorb contract in one of the big Giannis/KD deals upcoming and demand a load of picks to get it done. Kills the FA market for Giddey and Kuminga and Naz Reid and everyone else.

I wonder if Kuminga is going to make less than he wants, he asks for a trade to someplace like Chicago vs staying on the bench in GS. A young PF taking all of Vuc's minutes & shots? Who wouldn't want that.

Kuminga definitely lacks a leverage point, much like Giddey.

Both will have no external market and will face the QO or looking for a S&T or taking what their team will give them. Both have similar thoughts of "maybe there is a lot of upside here if I squint really hard because they put up high stats and could improve their various weaknesses".

Either one might be a good deal on their next contract or a bad deal depending how much of that contract is based on potential vs actual and how much they improve or don't improve over the course of that next deal.

One thing I will say for the Bulls is they can't keep taking a chance on non-shooting upside guys. You can't build your roster primarily around non-shooters. If we're going to take a chance on Giddey, it's highly debatable whether you want to be taking another big money bet on a guy like Kuminga. You've also got Matas whom is a questionable shooting prospect, it's going to be hard to find a defensive center that's also a shooting prospect.

Kuminga also doesn't feel like a guy who can play off ball and has no PG skills, so I don't know how he fits with Giddey. To me, this means, you have to offer Kuminga a deal that pays him as a bench player ~15M or less. He paid 24 minutes a night for a GS team that was really thin and also doesn't seem to want him going for you and has weaknesses our team can ill afford and is highly unlikely to fit with the guy whom will be the highest paid player on the team after this off-season.