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MrSparkle wrote:Are you kidding me? Lol - this dude showed every offensive move in the book in those scrimmages. Dinwiddie knows what’s up- he passed and watched him score at will on Ingram. Finishes with either hand inside, cross-over/stepback/fadeaway, 1-hand floaters/baby-hook, cross-court passes.

Edwards’ pro day looked like amateur hour compared to this, and both were practice videos.

You said it. After watching Edwards workout, and especially after hearing him speak (basketball is just what I do and other pandemic nonsense), compared to Pat's eloquence in stating what's important for him to do to grow as a player and to back it up with that video. Damn.

cjbulls wrote:

Dez wrote:

cjbulls wrote:
What you remain clueless about is you can like the player, but recognize the reach. I like Patrick as a nice, future core player. He certainly has that potential and fits a lot of the qualities that I like.

But he’s a poor use of a #4 pick, and where presumably they won’t be picking again anytime soon. This team is built to be middling at this point and are out of star chances unless they want to go the free agency route. But hey, now that we have the next Kawhi Leonard I guess I’m just overreacting.

Hang on, you were constantly throwing out scouts opinions/scouting reports in defense of LaMelo but when the shoe is on the other foot with Williams it's a reach and a poor use of a number 4 pick? Even though the Pistons were trying to trade up from 7 to get him and the Spurs wanted him until he started rocketing up the draft boards.

You can't call it a reach when the team at 7 wanted him and was trying to jump the Bulls to get him.

So you admit it's a reasonable conclusion to say Detroit would have traded 7/16 for him?

I have never said scouts have Ball 1, so you should take him 1. But you can use their reports to evaluate issues. For example, when people say "Lamelo doesn't play defense", the scouting reports show he doesn't put forth consistent effort, but has the physical ability to do so. Or when you see Patrick Williams low production, you can hear about the FSU system and why it isn't that rare to have a good player get on 22mpg.

The report from detroit was to trade ABOVE chi. It wasn't to trade with Chi. Why would they trade with Chi? Second what if AK didn't like the prospects at 7 even if it was offered? Just because your coach scouting has a different ranking doesn't mean it's the definitive ranking. Every team had their own workouts and their own boards. It's obvious a few teams did have PWill high on their boards .

PaKii94 wrote:

cjbulls wrote:

Dez wrote:
Hang on, you were constantly throwing out scouts opinions/scouting reports in defense of LaMelo but when the shoe is on the other foot with Williams it's a reach and a poor use of a number 4 pick? Even though the Pistons were trying to trade up from 7 to get him and the Spurs wanted him until he started rocketing up the draft boards.

You can't call it a reach when the team at 7 wanted him and was trying to jump the Bulls to get him.

So you admit it's a reasonable conclusion to say Detroit would have traded 7/16 for him?

I have never said scouts have Ball 1, so you should take him 1. But you can use their reports to evaluate issues. For example, when people say "Lamelo doesn't play defense", the scouting reports show he doesn't put forth consistent effort, but has the physical ability to do so. Or when you see Patrick Williams low production, you can hear about the FSU system and why it isn't that rare to have a good player get on 22mpg.

The report from detroit was to trade ABOVE chi. It wasn't to trade with Chi. Why would they trade with Chi? Second what if AK didn't like the prospects at 7 even if it was offered? Just because your coach scouting has a different ranking doesn't mean it's the definitive ranking. Every team had their own workouts and their own boards. It's obvious a few teams did have PWill high on their boards .

So you think they wanted to trade with Charlotte for 3 but wouldn’t offer the exact same terms for Chicago at 4? If they get him at 4 they get to pay him even less $, there is no downside.

I never said mine was the definitive ranking. We all agreed before the draft that all these guys were ranked similarly. We all agreed before the draft (pre-rumors) Patrick wasn’t worthy of 4. But now that it happened, people are bending over backwards to hype this guy up. It’s fine, but I can be disappointed.

There were people ready to throw a fit if we took Deni. A few people said they would stop being Bulls fans if they took Ball. But for some reason me not enthusiastically jumping on board with this decision is not allowed. There were many better options, something like 5-10 when you factor in trades. With that said, I like the kid and want him to do well. I just don’t see any star potential outside of the Butler miracle scenario (unlike true raw prospects like a Poku). There were other guys with better star chances, including at 7.

RedBulls23 wrote:

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I like what this man has to say

RedBulls23 wrote:

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His body language in the videos showed he knew what was up.

I loved Brandon Ingram hanging his head after PW did him up.

That wasnt Ingram that’s Bruno

cjbulls wrote:

PaKii94 wrote:

cjbulls wrote:
So you admit it's a reasonable conclusion to say Detroit would have traded 7/16 for him?

I have never said scouts have Ball 1, so you should take him 1. But you can use their reports to evaluate issues. For example, when people say "Lamelo doesn't play defense", the scouting reports show he doesn't put forth consistent effort, but has the physical ability to do so. Or when you see Patrick Williams low production, you can hear about the FSU system and why it isn't that rare to have a good player get on 22mpg.

The report from detroit was to trade ABOVE chi. It wasn't to trade with Chi. Why would they trade with Chi? Second what if AK didn't like the prospects at 7 even if it was offered? Just because your coach scouting has a different ranking doesn't mean it's the definitive ranking. Every team had their own workouts and their own boards. It's obvious a few teams did have PWill high on their boards .

So you think they wanted to trade with Charlotte for 3 but wouldn’t offer the exact same terms for Chicago at 4? If they get him at 4 they get to pay him even less $, there is no downside.

I never said mine was the definitive ranking. We all agreed before the draft that all these guys were ranked similarly. We all agreed before the draft (pre-rumors) Patrick wasn’t worthy of 4. But now that it happened, people are bending over backwards to hype this guy up. It’s fine, but I can be disappointed.

There were people ready to throw a fit if we took Deni. A few people said they would stop being Bulls fans if they took Ball. But for some reason me not enthusiastically jumping on board with this decision is not allowed. There were many better options, something like 5-10 when you factor in trades. With that said, I like the kid and want him to do well. I just don’t see any star potential outside of the Butler miracle scenario (unlike true raw prospects like a Poku). There were other guys with better star chances, including at 7.

People are now working with new information.

We hadn’t seen these videos of Williams cooking NBA players with a full arsenal of moves.

Also, a lot of people, myself included, are giving AK the benefit of the doubt.

He seemed pretty emphatic that this was the guy, and his track record in Denver obviously gives him credibility.

I thought this was an incredibly weak draft, so I wasn’t enthused about anybody at 4.

But Williams is growing on me now that I’ve started to research him.

StunnerKO wrote:That wasnt Ingram that’s Bruno

Was he the guy that was “two years away from being two years away”?

RedBulls23 wrote:

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Hype train about to go into overdrive!

cjbulls wrote:

PaKii94 wrote:

cjbulls wrote:
So you admit it's a reasonable conclusion to say Detroit would have traded 7/16 for him?

I have never said scouts have Ball 1, so you should take him 1. But you can use their reports to evaluate issues. For example, when people say "Lamelo doesn't play defense", the scouting reports show he doesn't put forth consistent effort, but has the physical ability to do so. Or when you see Patrick Williams low production, you can hear about the FSU system and why it isn't that rare to have a good player get on 22mpg.

The report from detroit was to trade ABOVE chi. It wasn't to trade with Chi. Why would they trade with Chi? Second what if AK didn't like the prospects at 7 even if it was offered? Just because your coach scouting has a different ranking doesn't mean it's the definitive ranking. Every team had their own workouts and their own boards. It's obvious a few teams did have PWill high on their boards .

So you think they wanted to trade with Charlotte for 3 but wouldn’t offer the exact same terms for Chicago at 4? If they get him at 4 they get to pay him even less $, there is no downside.

I never said mine was the definitive ranking. We all agreed before the draft that all these guys were ranked similarly. We all agreed before the draft (pre-rumors) Patrick wasn’t worthy of 4. But now that it happened, people are bending over backwards to hype this guy up. It’s fine, but I can be disappointed.

There were people ready to throw a fit if we took Deni. A few people said they would stop being Bulls fans if they took Ball. But for some reason me not enthusiastically jumping on board with this decision is not allowed. There were many better options, something like 5-10 when you factor in trades. With that said, I like the kid and want him to do well. I just don’t see any star potential outside of the Butler miracle scenario (unlike true raw prospects like a Poku). There were other guys with better star chances, including at 7.

I’m not following all the back and forth on this long running what-if sub thread, but although many posters may think it’s crazy I think you may be looking at this the wrong way.

I think Bulls may have promised PW at 4 months ago. They were that sure he was their guy and just didn’t want him going 1 - 3. I get from our perspective it doesn’t make sense but when I hear AK talking about when Bulls were ready to pick, see the red jacket his Bro (maybe) was wearing and muted response from family when PW got taken, when PW admits he was just coincidentally talking to Coby every other day... it adds up.

More about Patrick Williams.

RedBulls23 wrote:

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I don't know about ya'll - but I trust what an actual high level professional basketball players says about a prospect they've played with in any capacity.

cjbulls wrote:

PaKii94 wrote:

cjbulls wrote:
So you admit it's a reasonable conclusion to say Detroit would have traded 7/16 for him?

I have never said scouts have Ball 1, so you should take him 1. But you can use their reports to evaluate issues. For example, when people say "Lamelo doesn't play defense", the scouting reports show he doesn't put forth consistent effort, but has the physical ability to do so. Or when you see Patrick Williams low production, you can hear about the FSU system and why it isn't that rare to have a good player get on 22mpg.

The report from detroit was to trade ABOVE chi. It wasn't to trade with Chi. Why would they trade with Chi? Second what if AK didn't like the prospects at 7 even if it was offered? Just because your coach scouting has a different ranking doesn't mean it's the definitive ranking. Every team had their own workouts and their own boards. It's obvious a few teams did have PWill high on their boards .

So you think they wanted to trade with Charlotte for 3 but wouldn’t offer the exact same terms for Chicago at 4? If they get him at 4 they get to pay him even less $, there is no downside.

I never said mine was the definitive ranking. We all agreed before the draft that all these guys were ranked similarly. We all agreed before the draft (pre-rumors) Patrick wasn’t worthy of 4. But now that it happened, people are bending over backwards to hype this guy up. It’s fine, but I can be disappointed.

There were people ready to throw a fit if we took Deni. A few people said they would stop being Bulls fans if they took Ball. But for some reason me not enthusiastically jumping on board with this decision is not allowed. There were many better options, something like 5-10 when you factor in trades. With that said, I like the kid and want him to do well. I just don’t see any star potential outside of the Butler miracle scenario (unlike true raw prospects like a Poku). There were other guys with better star chances, including at 7.

The reason they were moving up is to get ahead of the bulls. If the bulls want PWill and detroit want PWill then they can't force the bulls to take 7/16 for #4.

You are allowed to not like the pick but your justification of "multiple trades out there", "why not just trade down" doesn't apply cause we really don't know what the options were. After the first 3 picks, it was a crapshoot on where people were ranked. AK liked PWill at #4 and took him.

Portiseyes wrote:

cjbulls wrote:

PaKii94 wrote:
The report from detroit was to trade ABOVE chi. It wasn't to trade with Chi. Why would they trade with Chi? Second what if AK didn't like the prospects at 7 even if it was offered? Just because your coach scouting has a different ranking doesn't mean it's the definitive ranking. Every team had their own workouts and their own boards. It's obvious a few teams did have PWill high on their boards .

So you think they wanted to trade with Charlotte for 3 but wouldn’t offer the exact same terms for Chicago at 4? If they get him at 4 they get to pay him even less $, there is no downside.

I never said mine was the definitive ranking. We all agreed before the draft that all these guys were ranked similarly. We all agreed before the draft (pre-rumors) Patrick wasn’t worthy of 4. But now that it happened, people are bending over backwards to hype this guy up. It’s fine, but I can be disappointed.

There were people ready to throw a fit if we took Deni. A few people said they would stop being Bulls fans if they took Ball. But for some reason me not enthusiastically jumping on board with this decision is not allowed. There were many better options, something like 5-10 when you factor in trades. With that said, I like the kid and want him to do well. I just don’t see any star potential outside of the Butler miracle scenario (unlike true raw prospects like a Poku). There were other guys with better star chances, including at 7.

I’m not following all the back and forth on this long running what-if sub thread, but although many posters may think it’s crazy I think you may be looking at this the wrong way.

I think Bulls may have promised PW at 4 months ago. They were that sure he was their guy and just didn’t want him going 1 - 3. I get from our perspective it doesn’t make sense but when I hear AK talking about when Bulls were ready to pick, see the red jacket his Bro (maybe) was wearing and muted response from family when PW got taken, when PW admits he was just coincidentally talking to Coby every other day... it adds up.

That may very well be true, but it seems odd to promise a guy at 4 in a 3 person draft. Either way, a promise is a poor use of the pick.

PaKii94 wrote:

cjbulls wrote:

PaKii94 wrote:
The report from detroit was to trade ABOVE chi. It wasn't to trade with Chi. Why would they trade with Chi? Second what if AK didn't like the prospects at 7 even if it was offered? Just because your coach scouting has a different ranking doesn't mean it's the definitive ranking. Every team had their own workouts and their own boards. It's obvious a few teams did have PWill high on their boards .

So you think they wanted to trade with Charlotte for 3 but wouldn’t offer the exact same terms for Chicago at 4? If they get him at 4 they get to pay him even less $, there is no downside.

I never said mine was the definitive ranking. We all agreed before the draft that all these guys were ranked similarly. We all agreed before the draft (pre-rumors) Patrick wasn’t worthy of 4. But now that it happened, people are bending over backwards to hype this guy up. It’s fine, but I can be disappointed.

There were people ready to throw a fit if we took Deni. A few people said they would stop being Bulls fans if they took Ball. But for some reason me not enthusiastically jumping on board with this decision is not allowed. There were many better options, something like 5-10 when you factor in trades. With that said, I like the kid and want him to do well. I just don’t see any star potential outside of the Butler miracle scenario (unlike true raw prospects like a Poku). There were other guys with better star chances, including at 7.

The reason they were moving up is to get ahead of the bulls. If the bulls want PWill and detroit want PWill then they can't force the bulls to take 7/16 for #4.

You are allowed to not like the pick but your justification of "multiple trades out there", "why not just trade down" doesn't apply cause we really don't know what the options were. After the first 3 picks, it was a crapshoot on where people were ranked. AK liked PWill at #4 and took him.

What are you saying? Bulls can just call Detroit and say, "he we heard you wanted PWill ahead of us. How about you just just buy us off by sending us 7/16 and we will let you have him at 4. Otherwise, we are taking him at 4. Then Detroit gives him the same offer they were giving to Charlotte.

JohnnyTapwater wrote:

RedBulls23 wrote:

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I don't know about ya'll - but I trust what an actual high level professional basketball players says about a prospect they've played with in any capacity.

Wasn't Dinwiddie the guy saying the Bulls should sign him and he would deliver AD?

Wade was saying Edwards was better than him. We need to take these guys who are friends and have agent connections with a heavy grain of salt.

Shill wrote:

cjbulls wrote:

PaKii94 wrote:
The report from detroit was to trade ABOVE chi. It wasn't to trade with Chi. Why would they trade with Chi? Second what if AK didn't like the prospects at 7 even if it was offered? Just because your coach scouting has a different ranking doesn't mean it's the definitive ranking. Every team had their own workouts and their own boards. It's obvious a few teams did have PWill high on their boards .

So you think they wanted to trade with Charlotte for 3 but wouldn’t offer the exact same terms for Chicago at 4? If they get him at 4 they get to pay him even less $, there is no downside.

I never said mine was the definitive ranking. We all agreed before the draft that all these guys were ranked similarly. We all agreed before the draft (pre-rumors) Patrick wasn’t worthy of 4. But now that it happened, people are bending over backwards to hype this guy up. It’s fine, but I can be disappointed.

There were people ready to throw a fit if we took Deni. A few people said they would stop being Bulls fans if they took Ball. But for some reason me not enthusiastically jumping on board with this decision is not allowed. There were many better options, something like 5-10 when you factor in trades. With that said, I like the kid and want him to do well. I just don’t see any star potential outside of the Butler miracle scenario (unlike true raw prospects like a Poku). There were other guys with better star chances, including at 7.

People are now working with new information.

We hadn’t seen these videos of Williams cooking NBA players with a full arsenal of moves.

Also, a lot of people, myself included, are giving AK the benefit of the doubt.

He seemed pretty emphatic that this was the guy, and his track record in Denver obviously gives him credibility.

I thought this was an incredibly weak draft, so I wasn’t enthused about anybody at 4.

But Williams is growing on me now that I’ve started to research him.

If you are saying that edited instagram footage of a scrimmage has real meaning then I don't know what to say, difference of opinion there between us.

Agree and believe he was their guy. Disappointed the same way you would be if we took Bey at 4 or whatever.

cjbulls wrote:

Portiseyes wrote:

cjbulls wrote:
So you think they wanted to trade with Charlotte for 3 but wouldn’t offer the exact same terms for Chicago at 4? If they get him at 4 they get to pay him even less $, there is no downside.

I never said mine was the definitive ranking. We all agreed before the draft that all these guys were ranked similarly. We all agreed before the draft (pre-rumors) Patrick wasn’t worthy of 4. But now that it happened, people are bending over backwards to hype this guy up. It’s fine, but I can be disappointed.

There were people ready to throw a fit if we took Deni. A few people said they would stop being Bulls fans if they took Ball. But for some reason me not enthusiastically jumping on board with this decision is not allowed. There were many better options, something like 5-10 when you factor in trades. With that said, I like the kid and want him to do well. I just don’t see any star potential outside of the Butler miracle scenario (unlike true raw prospects like a Poku). There were other guys with better star chances, including at 7.

I’m not following all the back and forth on this long running what-if sub thread, but although many posters may think it’s crazy I think you may be looking at this the wrong way.

I think Bulls may have promised PW at 4 months ago. They were that sure he was their guy and just didn’t want him going 1 - 3. I get from our perspective it doesn’t make sense but when I hear AK talking about when Bulls were ready to pick, see the red jacket his Bro (maybe) was wearing and muted response from family when PW got taken, when PW admits he was just coincidentally talking to Coby every other day... it adds up.

That may very well be true, but it seems odd to promise a guy at 4 in a 3 person draft. Either way, a promise is a poor use of the pick.

But what if it was a 3 person draft only because the Bulls, PW and his agents somehow managed to keep him hidden for months and months? What if PW decided after meeting with AKMEBD that this is where he wanted to go and wanted to control his own fate, so participated lock stock and barrel in this grand charade. I’m talking a fully orchestrated conspiracy theory here, haha, and I know it sounds ridiculous if you don’t believe AK that PW was their guy all along. I’m just open to the possibility that PW may bring Way more than almost everyone is thinking right now, and I’m having fun ‘connecting the dots.’