Josh Giddey - Conundrum Killer

[DASMACKDOWN]

Any way you cut it, its pretty impressive what Giddey is doing.

[Ice Man]

Any way you cut it, its pretty impressive what Giddey is doing.

Yep. I mean, it's not surprising. He jumped out at me as a rookie,, so that I was writing about him even then, and unlike our departed King Cuban, who was raving about rookie Jovic, I'm not the sharpest knife around. But Giddey's potential was obvious -- skills, great vision, great size.

As, unfortunately, were his two big weaknesses of shooting & defense.

The jury is still out, but at least he's an unusual and fun player to watch, and there is a real chance that he could end up truly helping us.

[League Circles]

The more other moves we can become more certain on by the time we have to decide on Giddey, the more comfortable I am with him being re-signed long term.

If it's basically "Giddey, Matas, Patrick's bad contract and figure out the rest later", I'm much less OK with it. Giddey absolutely could be running the offense for a really good team, but it would have to a be a carefully constructed team, so I want more of it determined than is the case right now. Hopefully we can get a piece in the draft that looks like he'll work well with Giddey, and then maybe another move to sort things out. Guys like Coby and Smith could be good or bad fits with Giddey depending on all the different moving pieces.

[sco]

The more other moves we can become more certain on by the time we have to decide on Giddey, the more comfortable I am with him being re-signed long term.

If it's basically "Giddey, Matas, Patrick's bad contract and figure out the rest later", I'm much less OK with it. Giddey absolutely could be running the offense for a really good team, but it would have to a be a carefully constructed team, so I want more of it determined than is the case right now. Hopefully we can get a piece in the draft that looks like he'll work well with Giddey, and then maybe another move to sort things out. Guys like Coby and Smith could be good or bad fits with Giddey depending on all the different moving pieces.

You make a good point. My recent perspective was that our rebuild will either require both a #1 scoring option and (barring a Matas big improvement) a #2 option. With Giddey's current level of play, I'm thinking he could be a legit #2 option on a contending team. To be sure, we still need a legit #1 option (which is obviously the hardest part).

That has the knock-on effect of needing Coby as a #2 option, which mitigates our defensive issues with the starting (future) line-up. That said, I'd have no problem with Coby playing that 6th man role that we've discussed here forever.

[Chi town]

Very few teams will have the aggressive defenders to stay all over him all game. He will get 3s but I don’t know if you he will get 5 per game if defended like he was tonight where they want the ball out of his hands.

Well come playoff time, there will be an even greater attention and detailed gameplan. And we saw how well he did last year...

That being said, I don't expect him to be as horrible as he was then (18%) and there's been obvious improvements since then.
And not that we are in any danger of making the playoffs (properly) any time soon (play in aside).

And ideally we’d have two top scorers ahead of him so teams would not be able to use that kind of pressure knowing he will find the open player.

Giddey heavily guarded def makes it easy for his teammates because he's so good passing and has such a high IQ.

[Chi town]

The more other moves we can become more certain on by the time we have to decide on Giddey, the more comfortable I am with him being re-signed long term.

If it's basically "Giddey, Matas, Patrick's bad contract and figure out the rest later", I'm much less OK with it. Giddey absolutely could be running the offense for a really good team, but it would have to a be a carefully constructed team, so I want more of it determined than is the case right now. Hopefully we can get a piece in the draft that looks like he'll work well with Giddey, and then maybe another move to sort things out. Guys like Coby and Smith could be good or bad fits with Giddey depending on all the different moving pieces.

You make a good point. My recent perspective was that our rebuild will either require both a #1 scoring option and (barring a Matas big improvement) a #2 option. With Giddey's current level of play, I'm thinking he could be a legit #2 option on a contending team. To be sure, we still need a legit #1 option (which is obviously the hardest part).

That has the knock-on effect of needing Coby as a #2 option, which mitigates our defensive issues with the starting (future) line-up. That said, I'd have no problem with Coby playing that 6th man role that we've discussed here forever.

There is no way I see Giddey becoming a 2nd option unless he learns how to play like Brunson bumpingn and pushing off to create space and drawing fouls. Giddey legit doesn't jump in the midrange. Has never take a legit jumper releasing at the peak of his jump. He normally does an awkward floater.

[Chi town]

We play every sat am and Tues night. I keep getting worse and they keep getting better my Soph son is growing like crazy and adding muscle 5’10 now and get can get rim with both hands. Not bad with my whiteboy genes. Our dream is for me to throw him an oop in one of the rec runs. Hes squatting and doing plyos. Hes thinks its coming his junior year. He may be right. We shall see.

It is pretty fun when we go on a run together and win 4-5 games in a row and we hit some game winners. I’m having the time of my life playing with them. It’s more fun that when I played in HS and won two state titles. Never thought anything could eclipse that in my limited playing days.

2 Illinois State titles? You had/have some skills then! I've been thinking about taking the game back up at 65 lol. Just starting with some shoot arounds... maybe some 21. And then see if I can get in good enough shape to play half court playground old man games lol

Lol, we should start a "RealGM Seniors" rec league team or scrimmage group. I played a lot for a long time but it's been a few years now.

Two Iowa State Titles but we beat Rock Island when they were tops in the state of Illinois. We play side court 4 on 4 full court. I couldnt' imagine running a full HS court. It'd be a cherry picking festival with eveyrone winded but the young guys.

I'd love a Real GM Rec Run!!! Many years ago I put up a post asking about who played hoops on the board. If I recall we had quite a few HS hooper and several college hoopers.

[sco]

The more other moves we can become more certain on by the time we have to decide on Giddey, the more comfortable I am with him being re-signed long term.

If it's basically "Giddey, Matas, Patrick's bad contract and figure out the rest later", I'm much less OK with it. Giddey absolutely could be running the offense for a really good team, but it would have to a be a carefully constructed team, so I want more of it determined than is the case right now. Hopefully we can get a piece in the draft that looks like he'll work well with Giddey, and then maybe another move to sort things out. Guys like Coby and Smith could be good or bad fits with Giddey depending on all the different moving pieces.

You make a good point. My recent perspective was that our rebuild will either require both a #1 scoring option and (barring a Matas big improvement) a #2 option. With Giddey's current level of play, I'm thinking he could be a legit #2 option on a contending team. To be sure, we still need a legit #1 option (which is obviously the hardest part).

That has the knock-on effect of needing Coby as a #2 option, which mitigates our defensive issues with the starting (future) line-up. That said, I'd have no problem with Coby playing that 6th man role that we've discussed here forever.

There is no way I see Giddey becoming a 2nd option unless he learns how to play like Brunson bumpingn and pushing off to create space and drawing fouls. Giddey legit doesn't jump in the midrange. Has never take a legit jumper releasing at the peak of his jump. He normally does an awkward floater.

I'm not saying he's there now, and he needs to go to Johnny-dribbles-alot to firm up his handles in traffice. That said, Brunson needs that extra space because he's 6'0 and can't jump. Also, I see Brunson as a #1 option (but in NY he and KAT are about even), but IMO Brunson is the guy who gets most of the double-teams. Anyway, I think Giddey's separation can come from his height advantage over many guys, coupled with his spin moves. But I can squint and see him get there with some additional work (where I couldn't see that before).

[HomoSapien]

How many more games until we can all openly admit that we like him and are excited.

[WindyCityBorn]

The more other moves we can become more certain on by the time we have to decide on Giddey, the more comfortable I am with him being re-signed long term.

If it's basically "Giddey, Matas, Patrick's bad contract and figure out the rest later", I'm much less OK with it. Giddey absolutely could be running the offense for a really good team, but it would have to a be a carefully constructed team, so I want more of it determined than is the case right now. Hopefully we can get a piece in the draft that looks like he'll work well with Giddey, and then maybe another move to sort things out. Guys like Coby and Smith could be good or bad fits with Giddey depending on all the different moving pieces.

You make a good point. My recent perspective was that our rebuild will either require both a #1 scoring option and (barring a Matas big improvement) a #2 option. With Giddey's current level of play, I'm thinking he could be a legit #2 option on a contending team. To be sure, we still need a legit #1 option (which is obviously the hardest part).

That has the knock-on effect of needing Coby as a #2 option, which mitigates our defensive issues with the starting (future) line-up. That said, I'd have no problem with Coby playing that 6th man role that we've discussed here forever.

There is no way I see Giddey becoming a 2nd option unless he learns how to play like Brunson bumpingn and pushing off to create space and drawing fouls. Giddey legit doesn't jump in the midrange. Has never take a legit jumper releasing at the peak of his jump. He normally does an awkward floater.

He is already doing a better job a at drawing contact and finishing at the rim. He is taking way less floaters recently. I think he finally realized he is 6’8” and his shot won’t get blocked!

I can see him being the second best player without being the 2nd scoring option though.

[MrSparkle]

Good stretch.

Time to put that $120M offer on the table and watch him start next season shooting 26% from the arc, roll his ankle and miss half the season!

[CROBulls]

Good stretch.

Time to put that $120M offer on the table and watch him start next season shooting 26% from the arc, roll his ankle and miss half the season!

Bulls always bet against themselves. That's why they are such a well run franchise last 5 years. Top of rotten cream.

[League Circles]

How many more games until we can all openly admit that we like him and are excited.

I'm probably lower on him than most and I've liked him all season. I am excited, but also very skeptical that we can build a true winner with him running the show. It is possible though. He's putting up good numbers, yes, but we're losing a lot while he does it, so it's hard to gauge. It's not as simple as blaming the losses on everyone else. Not that anyone in particular is doing that, but it is a data point to consider along with everything else.

[League Circles]

You make a good point. My recent perspective was that our rebuild will either require both a #1 scoring option and (barring a Matas big improvement) a #2 option. With Giddey's current level of play, I'm thinking he could be a legit #2 option on a contending team. To be sure, we still need a legit #1 option (which is obviously the hardest part).

That has the knock-on effect of needing Coby as a #2 option, which mitigates our defensive issues with the starting (future) line-up. That said, I'd have no problem with Coby playing that 6th man role that we've discussed here forever.

There is no way I see Giddey becoming a 2nd option unless he learns how to play like Brunson bumpingn and pushing off to create space and drawing fouls. Giddey legit doesn't jump in the midrange. Has never take a legit jumper releasing at the peak of his jump. He normally does an awkward floater.

He is already doing a better job a at drawing contact and finishing at the rim. He is taking way less floaters recently. I think he finally realized he is 6’8” and his shot won’t get blocked!

I can see him being the second best player without being the 2nd scoring option though.

You can honestly see Josh Giddey being the second best all around player on a contending NBA team? I think that's maybe pushing it a bit.

[cocktailswith_2short]

Above average starter on a championship caliber team . It's just **** cause the second a guy shows promise he needs to be paid ridiculously .

[kodo]

How many more games until we can all openly admit that we like him and are excited.

I'm probably lower on him than most and I've liked him all season. I am excited, but also very skeptical that we can build a true winner with him running the show. It is possible though. He's putting up good numbers, yes, but we're losing a lot while he does it, so it's hard to gauge. It's not as simple as blaming the losses on everyone else. Not that anyone in particular is doing that, but it is a data point to consider along with everything else.

Phoenix Suns are losing at the same rate as the Bulls on a far more talented team.
I don't think we'd pass on resigning Kevin Durant because he can't lead his team to wins (or would we?)

[League Circles]

How many more games until we can all openly admit that we like him and are excited.

I'm probably lower on him than most and I've liked him all season. I am excited, but also very skeptical that we can build a true winner with him running the show. It is possible though. He's putting up good numbers, yes, but we're losing a lot while he does it, so it's hard to gauge. It's not as simple as blaming the losses on everyone else. Not that anyone in particular is doing that, but it is a data point to consider along with everything else.

Phoenix Suns are losing at the same rate as the Bulls on a far more talented team.
I don't think we'd pass on resigning Kevin Durant because he can't lead his team to wins (or would we?)

Phoenix is not losing at the same rate as us, despite their blatantly unbalanced roster construction. And KD is an all time great who has multiple rings, multiple finals MVPs, and a league MVP. The idea isn't that a good or even great player can't be on a bad team. It's that you should always take individual numbers with a bit of a grain of salt for guys on bad teams, simply because many nba players put up big numbers because the opponents are fine with it because it leads to losses. Not saying Giddey is some kind of permanent loser or anything, just saying that we need to view him and all players beyond their individual stats.

[PJSteven22]

Is Giddey our best 3PT shooter?

Read on Twitter

I’ve seen Coby go on heaters too

[Clint Eastwood]

I just turned 65. I attribute the good shape to being, of all things, a seedy rock musician. Seriously, hauling gear a couple times a week and being on my feet for 5 to 6 hours at a time... and running around on stage like a silly 21 year old keeps me young.

Ha, I get this. I used to play in some little bar bands - sometimes cover bands, sometimes originals - here and there for some years, but definitely not in any band that would play multiple times a week. But for people that haven’t done that, I don’t think they realize how laborious it can be to schlep a big amp, 2-3 guitars, pedal board, etc. to the gig, then have to set them up, actually play the show, break them down after you play, schlep it all back home, and in my case, set all that stuff back up in the rehearsal space I used to have in my basement. I do miss playing with others - it’s totally different than just strumming along playing for your own amusement - but I do not miss all of the hauling!

Shlep. Such a great word and use of the word. Haven’t heard that one in a long time.

Its a great Yiddish term.

[PJSteven22]

I know how Caruso can impact winning. The jury is still out on Giddey.

That's the nature of the beast. When teams trade a 30 year old for a 22 year old, the first guy is a current winner and the second guy is a current loser. If the 30 year old weren't a winner, he would have no trade value and if the 22 year old was already a winner, the team that had him would not trade him.

I mean, what 22 year old guard is winning games now? OK, to answer my own question Ausar Thompson ranks #63 on EPM (that's just one stat, but we gotta pick something) and Dyson Daniels ranks #100. Those are the only 2 guards in the Top 100 on that list who are 22 years or younger (they are both 22). So, it's not a common thing.

In 5 years, several of the young PGs who are currently losing players will become winners. I dunno if we have one of those, but we might. That's about as good as it gets for a trade like this.

My question has never been he can’t fill up a stat sheet. I know he can do that. Can he produce in context of winning. The answer is still no. When there’s other talented players around him he tends to shrink because he can’t create his own shot off the bounce. He doesn’t have the supplementary skills to be an effective player if the offense isn’t revolving around him. Personally I would have taken the draft pick.