Deng to GS PG.13 / PG.43 Bulls Say Otherwise

[AirP.]

The fact that Forman seems very adament about matching any offer for Asik scares me that they may consider dealing Noah, I would hate that.

Me too. I don't see Asik as a starter yet. I also think Noah gives you good value for the $$$.

Me three. Management seems to overvalue Asik. He is mile and miles away from being a starter or from playing heavy minutes. He is way too much of a liability out there. Even if he has a Ben Wallace impact on defense, he is even worse than he was on offense. Much worse.

Let me ask you this... which is better?

Noah(11-12 million) + 4-7 million dollar SG
or
Asik(4-7 million) + 11-12 million SG

The Bulls can't have high priced players everywhere and center is where Chicago has depth at. I like Noah but something of value has to be moved to get Chicago some more options on offense.

[LoveDaBoo]

Let me ask you this... which is better?

Noah(11-12 million) + 4-7 million dollar SG
or
Asik(4-7 million) + 11-12 million SG

The Bulls can't have high priced players everywhere and center is where Chicago has depth at. I like Noah but something of value has to be moved to get Chicago some more options on offense.

The first. By far. Asik is the worst offensive player of all time. Of all time! I even like Asik, but good god, the man cannot catch a basketball. Even a $4-7M won't kill you that bad on either end.

[Gray Poster]

Me three. Management seems to overvalue Asik. He is mile and miles away from being a starter or from playing heavy minutes. He is way too much of a liability out there. Even if he has a Ben Wallace impact on defense, he is even worse than he was on offense. Much worse.

Let me ask you this... which is better?

Noah(11-12 million) + 4-7 million dollar SG
or
Asik(4-7 million) + 11-12 million SG

The Bulls can't have high priced players everywhere and center is where Chicago has depth at. I like Noah but something of value has to be moved to get Chicago some more options on offense.

I would like to know who is the 11-12 SG!! Eric Gordon seems to be the best young SG. Beal could be a good as well. But who is out there right now. Wade? Allen? RIP??? Tyreke Evans??

James Harden??

[AirP.]

Let me ask you this... which is better?

Noah(11-12 million) + 4-7 million dollar SG
or
Asik(4-7 million) + 11-12 million SG

The Bulls can't have high priced players everywhere and center is where Chicago has depth at. I like Noah but something of value has to be moved to get Chicago some more options on offense.

The first. By far. Asik is the worst offensive player of all time. Of all time! I even like Asik, but good god, the man cannot catch a basketball. Even a $4-7M won't kill you that bad on either end.

He is? You think Manute Bol was better then Asik? How about Chuck Nevitt, Chris Dudley?

What I don't understand is I've played with people with hands as bad or worse and then Asik and you figure out how you can and can't throw the ball to him which for some reason Asik's teammates haven't figured that out yet.

[AirP.]

Me three. Management seems to overvalue Asik. He is mile and miles away from being a starter or from playing heavy minutes. He is way too much of a liability out there. Even if he has a Ben Wallace impact on defense, he is even worse than he was on offense. Much worse.

Let me ask you this... which is better?

Noah(11-12 million) + 4-7 million dollar SG
or
Asik(4-7 million) + 11-12 million SG

The Bulls can't have high priced players everywhere and center is where Chicago has depth at. I like Noah but something of value has to be moved to get Chicago some more options on offense.

I would like to know who is the 11-12 SG!! Eric Gordon seems to be the best young SG. Beal could be a good as well. But who is out there right now. Wade? Allen? RIP??? Tyreke Evans??

James Harden??

It's hypothetical... a 11-12 million SG would be a good starting SG not a STUD, if we spend a lot of money at PG, SF, PF and C it looks like SG is the one Chicago will be the cheap position.

Well for example... I would be willing to think that Houston who is BEGGING for a good young center might move K.Martin for Noah.

So for possible comparison...
Noah + C.Lee(for Asik)
vs
Asik + K.Martin(for Noah)

I'd roll with Rose, K.Martin, Deng, Boozer and Asik over Rose, Lee, Deng, Boozer Noah.

[MrFortune3]

Let me ask you this... which is better?

Noah(11-12 million) + 4-7 million dollar SG
or
Asik(4-7 million) + 11-12 million SG

The Bulls can't have high priced players everywhere and center is where Chicago has depth at. I like Noah but something of value has to be moved to get Chicago some more options on offense.

Asik is 2-3 years away from being a legit starter on a full time basis so it's Noah + 4-7 and not even close.

[BULLHITTER]

What I don't understand is I've played with people with hands as bad or worse and then Asik and you figure out how you can and can't throw the ball to him which for some reason Asik's teammates haven't figured that out yet.

asik likely couldn't catch your passes either. but i'll ask, why should his teammates have to "figure out" how to throw him the ball? 3-6 team mates should figure him out? why? is he worth figuring out?
hell to the naw......

Asik is the worst offensive player of all time.

damn.....that's cold. even if it is true.....

[LoveDaBoo]

What I don't understand is I've played with people with hands as bad or worse and then Asik and you figure out how you can and can't throw the ball to him which for some reason Asik's teammates haven't figured that out yet.

Unless you've played with people who literally had their hands amputated, and were trying to catch the ball with stumps, I think you're fibbing here. Come, now. No one struggles to catch the ball like Asik. On several occasions last season he failed to catch a ball handed right to him under the basket.

[AirP.]

Let me ask you this... which is better?

Noah(11-12 million) + 4-7 million dollar SG
or
Asik(4-7 million) + 11-12 million SG

The Bulls can't have high priced players everywhere and center is where Chicago has depth at. I like Noah but something of value has to be moved to get Chicago some more options on offense.

Asik is 2-3 years away from being a legit starter on a full time basis so it's Noah + 4-7 and not even close.

Why is that? When given 20+ minutes for this year(11 games) his averages were nearly 26 min, 9 reb, 2 blk and 5 pts.

Per36 of the 2 centers...
Noah: 12.1 pts, 11.6 reb and 1.7 blocks.
Asik: 7.6 pts, 13 reb and 2.5 blocks.

Yes Asik isn't anything on offense but defense he's better then Noah and I'd think the upgrade at SG would more then compensate the loss of scoring, ESPECIALLY in the last 2 minutes of games.

[LoveDaBoo]

Let me ask you this... which is better?

Noah(11-12 million) + 4-7 million dollar SG
or
Asik(4-7 million) + 11-12 million SG

The Bulls can't have high priced players everywhere and center is where Chicago has depth at. I like Noah but something of value has to be moved to get Chicago some more options on offense.

Asik is 2-3 years away from being a legit starter on a full time basis so it's Noah + 4-7 and not even close.

Why is that? When given 20+ minutes for this year(11 games) his averages were nearly 26 min, 9 reb, 2 blk and 5 pts.

Per36 of the 2 centers...
Noah: 12.1 pts, 11.6 reb and 1.7 blocks.
Asik: 7.6 pts, 13 reb and 2.5 blocks.

Yes Asik isn't anything on offense but defense he's better then Noah and I'd think the upgrade at SG would more then compensate the loss of scoring, ESPECIALLY in the last 2 minutes of games.

He also doesn't look to be able to pay that kind of minute load. After 15 minutes, his nose turns purple, indicating that you'd better get him out of there soon.

[AirP.]

What I don't understand is I've played with people with hands as bad or worse and then Asik and you figure out how you can and can't throw the ball to him which for some reason Asik's teammates haven't figured that out yet.

Unless you've played with people who literally had their hands amputated, and were trying to catch the ball with stumps, I think you're fibbing here. Come, now. No one struggles to catch the ball like Asik. On several occasions last season he failed to catch a ball handed right to him under the basket.

Dude, I've played with guys who have a hard time dribbling and making a layup, you LEARN how they can and can't catch passes. You LEARN what kind of passes you can and can't do that's why I'm so surprised at some of the passes the Bulls players sometimes give Asik. YES he can be open under the basket but the pass you have to make to him might be too tough to do and with that you DON'T make that pass.

I'll tell you one thing... if Chicago keeps Asik and they sign J.Kidd, you'll see Asik being more effective offensively because Kidd will know how to utilize Asik and how to pass to him and his bad hands.

[LoveDaBoo]

Dude, I've played with guys who have a hard time dribbling and making a layup, you LEARN how they can and can't catch passes. You LEARN what kind of passes you can and can't do that's why I'm so surprised at some of the passes the Bulls players sometimes give Asik. YES he can be open under the basket but the pass you have to make to him might be too tough to do and with that you DON'T make that pass.

I'll tell you one thing... if Chicago keeps Asik and they sign J.Kidd, you'll see Asik being more effective offensively because Kidd will know how to utilize Asik and how to pass to him and his bad hands.

I'll tell you: you're just dead wrong. The guy has a mental block. You can't roll with him as your starting center. You just can't.

[ChicagoStrong]

What I don't understand is I've played with people with hands as bad or worse and then Asik and you figure out how you can and can't throw the ball to him which for some reason Asik's teammates haven't figured that out yet.

Unless you've played with people who literally had their hands amputated, and were trying to catch the ball with stumps, I think you're fibbing here. Come, now. No one struggles to catch the ball like Asik. On several occasions last season he failed to catch a ball handed right to him under the basket.

Dude, I've played with guys who have a hard time dribbling and making a layup, you LEARN how they can and can't catch passes. You LEARN what kind of passes you can and can't do that's why I'm so surprised at some of the passes the Bulls players sometimes give Asik. YES he can be open under the basket but the pass you have to make to him might be too tough to do and with that you DON'T make that pass.

I'll tell you one thing... if Chicago keeps Asik and they sign J.Kidd, you'll see Asik being more effective offensively because Kidd will know how to utilize Asik and how to pass to him and his bad hands.

Omer had the worst offensive rating on the team at 97. Noah had the highest at 120.

[MrFortune3]

Let me ask you this... which is better?

Noah(11-12 million) + 4-7 million dollar SG
or
Asik(4-7 million) + 11-12 million SG

The Bulls can't have high priced players everywhere and center is where Chicago has depth at. I like Noah but something of value has to be moved to get Chicago some more options on offense.

Asik is 2-3 years away from being a legit starter on a full time basis so it's Noah + 4-7 and not even close.

Why is that? When given 20+ minutes for this year(11 games) his averages were nearly 26 min, 9 reb, 2 blk and 5 pts.

Per36 of the 2 centers...
Noah: 12.1 pts, 11.6 reb and 1.7 blocks.
Asik: 7.6 pts, 13 reb and 2.5 blocks.

Yes Asik isn't anything on offense but defense he's better then Noah and I'd think the upgrade at SG would more then compensate the loss of scoring, ESPECIALLY in the last 2 minutes of games.

per 36 is not a good stat to look at Asik on. his play sags when he plays a lot of minutes. he's great in spurts and plays hard but once those minutes go up and he starts laboring a bit he starts with those borderline dumb fouls and he doesn't have the same crisp play on D.

[ChicagoStrong]

PER 36 is bad for Omer because he averages 5 fouls per 36 minutes.

[AirP.]

He also doesn't look to be able to pay that kind of minute load. After 15 minutes, his nose turns purple, indicating that you'd better get him out of there soon.

And here I thought he averaged over 22 minutes a game his last year overseas. Huh, guess you're right, he can't handle even 15 minutes.

[DanTown8587]

The problem with Omer starting is he is a dead weight offensively and the Bulls need guys who at least have value at both ends of the floor. Noah isn't great at either end but he's good at both. And what Omer is good at isn't worth downgrading the offense. the Bulls defense really can't get much better replacing Noah with Omer. But an already average offense can get much worse.

Let's put it this way, if the Bulls had say Phoenix level Amare instead of Boozer, do you feel the Bulls would be better suited? Wouldn't that solve a ton of problems? Then you wouldn't be looking to get rid of Noah and Deng.

[AirP.]

per 36 is not a good stat to look at Asik on. his play sags when he plays a lot of minutes. he's great in spurts and plays hard but once those minutes go up and he starts laboring a bit he starts with those borderline dumb fouls and he doesn't have the same crisp play on D.

Sure, he's not use to big minutes... basically not in "game shape" for big minutes. No I don't think he'll ever play 36 strong minutes but 30 solid minutes isn't a stretch, it's what Noah does now.

I use PER36 to show generally how effective a person is when on the floor to show their impact. Yes, he's not as effective but in 4 of his 11 games of 20+ minutes 4 of those were 13+ rebounds. The nice thing about size is that even if you're tired you still can be a defensive force close to the basket.

I'm already to the assumption he'll always suck on offense, I don't expect that to get much better no matter how much he works on it.

[RoseTheFuture22]

Another question, if we do amnesty Boozer now and start Taj all next season wouldn't that be bad because Taj is up for an extension next year? It could pump his value from something like 4 years $30 million to 4 and $40 million or more (and he'll be 28).

[musiqsoulchild]

It's kind of crazy to me how perfectly happy people are with this current group. I guess I just don't see it. It just doesn't pass the eye test to me. I still see a desperate need for another scorer, a shooting guard. I still see a need to replace Boozer, who is an absolute liability with this team that depends so heavily on defense. I still see how we could definitely upgrade the SF position - as 'good' as Luol is.

I see a team that still has some holes and the only way to fill them is by unloading the most burdensome contracts - Boozer's and Deng's. And if we don't improve ourselves through, what is believed to be, a deep draft, how do we do it? Do we depend on free agency? Hasn't really worked for us to this point. Do we depend on Rose taking a quantum leap beyond what he's done already, or Deng suddenly blossoming into an offensive star, or Rip Hamilton finding the fountain of youth or Boozer suddenly finding the fire and passion for defense?

Look, I like Deng, I really do, but in my mind this team needs to make some tough choices now so that it can be better in the long run. You can either 'compete' for a few years while Deng and Boozer's contracts expire, (and then pray for a good free agent crop), or you can make some moves now for younger talent that you hope will develop with Rose. AND IF THAT YOUNG TALENT fails, you still have cap room to bring in free agents. You have the opportunity to sell high on one of your larger contracts. In a year or two you can probably amnesty Boozer and create even more space. Why not shoot for the moon now and see if you can get a young, cheap, (hopefully at least a 6th man-esque) offensive talent that could help you in the long run?

I believe the team needs some additional pieces as well.

However, emphasis is on ADDITIONAL.

If you move Deng, you gotta make sure you are filling in the hole Deng leaves AND get that ADDITIONAL scorer/shooting guard.

There is a reasonably strong chance that moving Deng would not deliver on either of those 2 objectives, which would leave us with a worse team

This is the part that is being conveniently forgotten or ignored, or not factored in to "Trade Deng" analysis.

FWIW, I am a huge fan of moving Deng for an expiring and a lotto pick. But the expiring cannot be a throwaway...he has to be a contributing piece to our roster.

Otherwise we are #%&@ed. Or the chances of us being $%#@ed are pretty high.

I will still do the GSW deal and the Utah deal but with only this years pick going out. I dont even entertain the 2013 pick (protection or no protection).

That way we have given ourselves 2 chances to get our second scorer.