Love #5: P. 88, Bulls 'moving on' from Love

[dumbell78]

Just wondering, if Taj was a free agent this season, how much do you think he could gotten in this year's F/A market?

And yeah, I know, there have been some ridiculous contracts that have been thrown out there this year (like Parsons') but, what do you think he might have gotten?

Cause this would be a pretty good barometer of his worth/value in the real world versus the RealGm world of opinions.

I think he gets 10 mil easily. Jordan Hill just got 9 mil/yr for two years, Marvin Williams just got 7 mil/yr for two years. Some team always comes along and offers up crazy money, he could have even get more in FA.

[rtblues]

Just wondering, if Taj was a free agent this season, how much do you think he could gotten in this year's F/A market?

And yeah, I know, there have been some ridiculous contracts that have been thrown out there this year (like Parsons') but, what do you think he might have gotten?

Cause this would be a pretty good barometer of his worth/value in the real world versus the RealGm world of opinions.

I think he gets 10 mil easily. Jordan Hill just got 9 mil/yr for two years, Marvin Williams just got 7 mil/yr for two years. Some team always comes along and offers up crazy money, he could have even get more in FA.

Yeah, that sounds about right....

[anubis7010]

Can we stop with all this Waiters talk, he is not good. look at his numbers.

[BullsFTW]

Can we stop with all this Waiters talk, he is not good. look at his numbers.

He had similar numbers to Bradley Beal. Do you consider Beal not good?

The talent is there. If you put him under Thibs and an environment that has structure, you will see a much better Dion Waiters.

[GimmeDat]

Can we stop with all this Waiters talk, he is not good. look at his numbers.

Numbers, per 36 - 19.3ppg @ 43% and 36% 3PT.

Not great numbers, but he's not a good fit next to Irving and his percentages are improving. If you watch his skill-set, he's got more than enough talent. I think he could absolutely excel here.

The only thing that's deterred me from him recently is his malcontent tweets.

[NecessaryEvil]

Can we stop with all this Waiters talk, he is not good. look at his numbers.

How about you watch him play?

[jc23]

Not sure how a proposed deal would work out, but trading for waiters and/or TT sets you back imo. They are young, we already have three rookies and one soph on the squad this season. Thats way too much youth to consider winning something "this" year.

With Noahs age and Derricks uncertainty i think we need to focus on the next 3 seasons. Hopefully Rose stays healthy, but even if he does after those 3 years he will be real close to 30. Even without the injuries i was worried about Derricks game in his 30's.

[p_s]

Not sure how a proposed deal would work out, but trading for waiters and/or TT sets you back imo. They are young, we already have three rookies and one soph on the squad this season. Thats way too much youth to consider winning something "this" year.

With Noahs age and Derricks uncertainty i think we need to focus on the next 3 seasons. Hopefully Rose stays healthy, but even if he does after those 3 years he will be real close to 30. Even without the injuries i was worried about Derricks game in his 30's.

I think there is enough experience around them to make it work. You can also seek out a consolidating trade for veteran, quality depth.

[kingkirk]

Ok, i am officially over this whole thing.

That is, until i am super bored at work and find myself yapping on about it all to pass the time. Surely this **** doesn't drag on for much longer?

[nomorezorro]

the taj-for-waiters/thompson idea honestly makes me want to pull my hair out

1) mirotic is completely unproven as an nba player at this point and you go from having absurdly good depth in your frontcourt to relying on a rookie, an old dude and a guy who's racked up a lot of milage recently, two of whom have a bit of an injury history. oh and tristan thompson yay

2) that being said, i can totally get behind the idea of trading taj for *a* wing to better balance the roster. waiters is uh, not that guy. the bulls don't need to be further diluting the talent level of the roster to add more "depth"; they need to concentrate it so they can play better players for more minutes. if you're packaging taj + mdj or snell or whatever for a wing, it should not be dion **** waiters

[WinCity]

Not sure how a proposed deal would work out, but trading for waiters and/or TT sets you back imo. They are young, we already have three rookies and one soph on the squad this season. Thats way too much youth to consider winning something "this" year.

With Noahs age and Derricks uncertainty i think we need to focus on the next 3 seasons. Hopefully Rose stays healthy, but even if he does after those 3 years he will be real close to 30. Even without the injuries i was worried about Derricks game in his 30's.

The proposed deal also brings us KMart.

Its also hard to win when we have a weakness that exposes us to the same defensive strategy that was already proven to stop us. Any move that gets us more shot creation is going to help.

[jelt]

the taj-for-waiters/thompson idea honestly makes me want to pull my hair out

1) mirotic is completely unproven as an nba player at this point and you go from having absurdly good depth in your frontcourt to relying on a rookie, an old dude and a guy who's racked up a lot of milage recently, two of whom have a bit of an injury history. oh and tristan thompson yay

2) that being said, i can totally get behind the idea of trading taj for *a* wing to better balance the roster. waiters is uh, not that guy. the bulls don't need to be further diluting the talent level of the roster to add more "depth"; they need to concentrate it so they can play better players for more minutes. if you're packaging taj + mdj or snell or whatever for a wing, it should not be dion **** waiters

Who would you trade for, that we can realistically get by giving up only players who we don't feel confident starting for our own team?

[NecessaryEvil]

the taj-for-waiters/thompson idea honestly makes me want to pull my hair out

1) mirotic is completely unproven as an nba player at this point and you go from having absurdly good depth in your frontcourt to relying on a rookie, an old dude and a guy who's racked up a lot of milage recently, two of whom have a bit of an injury history. oh and tristan thompson yay

2) that being said, i can totally get behind the idea of trading taj for *a* wing to better balance the roster. waiters is uh, not that guy. the bulls don't need to be further diluting the talent level of the roster to add more "depth"; they need to concentrate it so they can play better players for more minutes. if you're packaging taj + mdj or snell or whatever for a wing, it should not be dion **** waiters

Who would you trade for, that we can realistically get by giving up only players who we don't feel confident starting for our own team?

That's what I want to know. Quick to say no but don't offer any other solutions. Gaining Waiters but losing Gibson is further diluting the talent huh? That's actually an upgrade in talent + the other parts coming in. IN ADDITION to Gasol/McDermott/Mirotic/Brooks. Dion would be the only other TALENT on the roster with the ability to do some of the things D-Rose can.

But I get it, we're all homers in some way or another.

[nomorezorro]

i think it would be better to assess how the players on this roster mesh with one another before making a move than it would be to pull the trigger on anything less than a slam-dunk trade, honestly.

how the frontcourt rotation works, how mirotic and mcdermott translate to the nba, how snell + butler's game has changed since last year, how everyone plays off of rose (and how good rose is) — this is stuff that i personally would like to know before making a move, and i think the team has the luxury of waiting.

taj is pretty much a known entity at this point that should command similar value in-season, and dion waiters isn't the "missing piece" that the bulls have to move on now or risk missing a golden opportunity.

[nomorezorro]

i honestly don't know what evidence there is to assert that dion waiters is a more productive player on a contending basketball team than taj gibson at this point

[jc23]

i honestly don't know what evidence there is to assert that dion waiters is a more productive player on a contending basketball team than taj gibson at this point

he is not on our team so he is legit.

[WinCity]

That's what I want to know. Quick to say no but don't offer any other solutions. Gaining Waiters but losing Gibson is further diluting the talent huh? That's actually an upgrade in talent + the other parts coming in. IN ADDITION to Gasol/McDermott/Mirotic/Brooks. Dion would be the only other TALENT on the roster with the ability to do some of the things D-Rose can.

But I get it, we're all homers in some way or another.

Its actually just shift talent from a combo big, to a combo guard which is an area of need.

If I had my way we would make a play for Dragic, but Waiters also has the skill set we need i.e. shot creation

[coldfish]

the taj-for-waiters/thompson idea honestly makes me want to pull my hair out

1) mirotic is completely unproven as an nba player at this point and you go from having absurdly good depth in your frontcourt to relying on a rookie, an old dude and a guy who's racked up a lot of milage recently, two of whom have a bit of an injury history. oh and tristan thompson yay

2) that being said, i can totally get behind the idea of trading taj for *a* wing to better balance the roster. waiters is uh, not that guy. the bulls don't need to be further diluting the talent level of the roster to add more "depth"; they need to concentrate it so they can play better players for more minutes. if you're packaging taj + mdj or snell or whatever for a wing, it should not be dion **** waiters

Great post. I'll add a few things:
- The whole trade Taj thing is basically coming from Mirotic people who believe in him and want him to get minutes. I have generally found that people base their value on Taj on their opinion of Mirotic. I think Mirotic has a high bust potential so I place a lot of value on Taj.
- However, if you really can get a good wing player for a package based on Taj, I think you have to strongly consider it. The Bulls wings are inexperienced and/or weak. Unless McDermott saves the team, its going to be a problem.
- Most of the trade discussion I see brings in inexperienced and/or weak wing players for Taj. Not sure how that solves the problem. I would be down for a guy that's a clear upgrade but I haven't seen that mentioned.
- If people really want Martin, the Bulls could offer Snell, Dunleavey and a vet min guy and get him if the Wolves really want to offload him that bad. I'm guessing that not many people are going to support that because of the Mirotic thing.

[jelt]

Aside from the fact that we'll have a pretty small backcourt, can we actually get dragic for taj and dunleavey?

Frankly the only reason we're even able to make a play for waiters- given his youth- is because there's a trade on the table now that we can get a piece of. This is not going to be true mid season.

[coldfish]

Waiters: He has had a PER of 13.7 and 14.0. TS% of 49.2% and 50.8%. He is a known headcase. As he plays now, you don't want him on your team.

He does have some skills that might be able to get polished into a productive NBA player but as a Tyrus Thomas type headcase, you have to strongly question if that is going to happen.

Can people see why some posters aren't too enthralled about trading for him?