Deng to GS PG.13 / PG.43 Bulls Say Otherwise

[AirP.]

The problem with Omer starting is he is a dead weight offensively and the Bulls need guys who at least have value at both ends of the floor. Noah isn't great at either end but he's good at both. And what Omer is good at isn't worth downgrading the offense. the Bulls defense really can't get much better replacing Noah with Omer. But an already average offense can get much worse.

Let's put it this way, if the Bulls had say Phoenix level Amare instead of Boozer, do you feel the Bulls would be better suited? Wouldn't that solve a ton of problems? Then you wouldn't be looking to get rid of Noah and Deng.

This is what I'm saying... you use NOAH as a trade asset to UPGRADE the offense at a skilled position(the wings). It's not like you have Asik and get nothing for Noah. You go out and get a good wing player for Noah.

Can you imagine how much better Miami would be with Asik as their center instead of Anthony? If you have enough offense at the skill positions you can keep a dominate interior defender like Asik on the court.

[DanTown8587]

The problem with Omer starting is he is a dead weight offensively and the Bulls need guys who at least have value at both ends of the floor. Noah isn't great at either end but he's good at both. And what Omer is good at isn't worth downgrading the offense. the Bulls defense really can't get much better replacing Noah with Omer. But an already average offense can get much worse.

Let's put it this way, if the Bulls had say Phoenix level Amare instead of Boozer, do you feel the Bulls would be better suited? Wouldn't that solve a ton of problems? Then you wouldn't be looking to get rid of Noah and Deng.

This is what I'm saying... you use NOAH as a trade asset to UPGRADE the offense at a skilled position(the wings). It's not like you have Asik and get nothing for Noah. You go out and get a good wing player for Noah.

Can you imagine how much better Miami would be with Asik as their center instead of Anthony? If you have enough offense at the skill positions you can keep a dominate interior defender like Asik on the court.

One could make an incredibly good argument that Miami has two better offensive weapons than Chicago and a third weapon that is miles ahead of anyone outside of Derrick Rose. The Bulls and Heat are not trying to build comparable teams. The Heat can afford to have one dimensional players, the Bulls cannot (especially guys with limited offense)

[kyrv]

The problem with Omer starting is he is a dead weight offensively and the Bulls need guys who at least have value at both ends of the floor. Noah isn't great at either end but he's good at both. And what Omer is good at isn't worth downgrading the offense. the Bulls defense really can't get much better replacing Noah with Omer. But an already average offense can get much worse.

Let's put it this way, if the Bulls had say Phoenix level Amare instead of Boozer, do you feel the Bulls would be better suited? Wouldn't that solve a ton of problems? Then you wouldn't be looking to get rid of Noah and Deng.

This is what I'm saying... you use NOAH as a trade asset to UPGRADE the offense at a skilled position(the wings). It's not like you have Asik and get nothing for Noah. You go out and get a good wing player for Noah.

Can you imagine how much better Miami would be with Asik as their center instead of Anthony? If you have enough offense at the skill positions you can keep a dominate interior defender like Asik on the court.

One could make an incredibly good argument that Miami has two better offensive weapons than Chicago and a third weapon that is miles ahead of anyone outside of Derrick Rose. The Bulls and Heat are not trying to build comparable teams. The Heat can afford to have one dimensional players, the Bulls cannot (especially guys with limited offense)

I would tend to agree with that. msq was the one who a while back had a great post on the luxury of specialists, and that luxury was kind of going away soon (if not now).

This topic we actually discussed a lot a while back when Rose was developing and lacking a second superstar, my thinking was they need mostly two way players. This is where Deng is actually a boon, he's good at both ends, though not great on offense obviously. Noah is kind of a two way player, within reason, in some ways not an offensive threat.

[AirP.]

One could make an incredibly good argument that Miami has two better offensive weapons than Chicago and a third weapon that is miles ahead of anyone outside of Derrick Rose. The Bulls and Heat are not trying to build comparable teams. The Heat can afford to have one dimensional players, the Bulls cannot (especially guys with limited offense)

Let's say you're right about that(which you probably are), we then look at the other parts of the team. Chicago has the bigs to make teams into jumpshooting teams, something no other team can really do, the only with Chicago is that if you find a way to slow down Chicago's one dynamic offensive player(Rose) you pretty much stop the whole offense where as Miami, Oklahoma, Boston, LA or whatever other top teams have another option they can go to. Chicago to me is very unique in their offense of having nearly everything completely dependent on one player. I believe with Chicago's defense behind Thib's, Chicago only needs a little more diversity on their offense to be a legitimate contender.

Yes I get Chicago's team is damn good and should always get into the 2nd if not 3rd round of the playoffs, but they do have a huge problem on offense late in games against top defenses. Chicago just needs 1 or 2 more options on offense... even if it's a J.Crawford or B.Gordon being 1 or both those offensive options. They don't have to be superstars or even all-stars but just have the ability to get off a decent shot when the pressure is on. This is how close I think Chicago is to being a favorite to winning the championship.

[blumeany]

The Bulls are one offensive threat (who is a quality starter) from beating the Heat. Problem is, to realistically get that, they either need to amnesty Boozer or trade Boozer, Deng, or Noah to get a high draft pick to POTENTIALLY get that.

[fleet]

Dude, I've played with guys who have a hard time dribbling and making a layup, you LEARN how they can and can't catch passes. You LEARN what kind of passes you can and can't do that's why I'm so surprised at some of the passes the Bulls players sometimes give Asik. YES he can be open under the basket but the pass you have to make to him might be too tough to do and with that you DON'T make that pass.

I'll tell you one thing... if Chicago keeps Asik and they sign J.Kidd, you'll see Asik being more effective offensively because Kidd will know how to utilize Asik and how to pass to him and his bad hands.

I'll tell you: you're just dead wrong. The guy has a mental block. You can't roll with him as your starting center. You just can't.

I just disagree. IMO you can easily play with a defense only center on the right roster. Or used to be able to. The Jazz specialized in it. Mark Eaton and Greg Ostertag played on some pretty dang good teams. Today's game is more oriented towards a more mobile kind of player, but the good news on that is....Asik is a mobile center. But the point is, if you can hide a player's individual scoring offense at any position, its center. Asik can't score, but he can move the ball.

[LoveDaBoo]

I'll tell you: you're just dead wrong. The guy has a mental block. You can't roll with him as your starting center. You just can't.

I just disagree. IMO you can easily play with a defense only center. Or used to be able to. The Jazz specialized in it. Mark Eaton and Greg Ostertag played on some pretty dang good teams. Today's game is more oriented towards a more mobile kind of player, but the good news on that is....Asik is a mobile center.

Asik makes Ostertag look like Olajuwon. There's a difference between your typical "defense only center" and a guy who literally will cripple your offense.

My god is Asik over-rated on these boards. Edit: And as has been pointed out, Asik averages 5 fouls per 36. Even if you only give him ~30 minutes, he's going to be close to fouling out every game.

[fleet]

I'll tell you: you're just dead wrong. The guy has a mental block. You can't roll with him as your starting center. You just can't.

I just disagree. IMO you can easily play with a defense only center. Or used to be able to. The Jazz specialized in it. Mark Eaton and Greg Ostertag played on some pretty dang good teams. Today's game is more oriented towards a more mobile kind of player, but the good news on that is....Asik is a mobile center.

Asik makes Ostertag look like Olajuwon. There's a difference between your typical "defense only center" and a guy who literally will cripple your offense.

My god is Asik over-rated on these boards. Edit: And as has been pointed out, Asik averages 5 fouls per 36. Even if you only give him ~30 minutes, he's going to be close to fouling out every game.

nobody makes Ostertag look like Olajawon. You're exagerating

[RichardsRival3]

nobody makes Ostertag look like Olajawon. You're exagerating

Why is your avvy of the Thunder? Are you a Thunder fan or a Bulls fan?

[aaqubed]

When it comes to trading Noah and starting Asik, it really depends on what we're talking about in terms of return. I would definitely be for trading Noah if it meant getting a stud SG back. If we can turn Noah and the Bobcats' pick into Eric Gordon or James Harden, I'd definitely do that. Rose/Gordon/Deng/Boozer/Asik is more than enough offense to cover up Asik's deficiencies.

It's a much tougher decision if you're talking about someone like Kevin Martin, who, while good, is probably not a legit #2 option on a championship contender.

[AirP.]

I'll tell you: you're just dead wrong. The guy has a mental block. You can't roll with him as your starting center. You just can't.

I just disagree. IMO you can easily play with a defense only center. Or used to be able to. The Jazz specialized in it. Mark Eaton and Greg Ostertag played on some pretty dang good teams. Today's game is more oriented towards a more mobile kind of player, but the good news on that is....Asik is a mobile center.

Asik makes Ostertag look like Olajuwon. There's a difference between your typical "defense only center" and a guy who literally will cripple your offense.

My god is Asik over-rated on these boards. Edit: And as has been pointed out, Asik averages 5 fouls per 36. Even if you only give him ~30 minutes, he's going to be close to fouling out every game.

You play much more aggressive with less minutes on the court, he had 2 games of 4 or more fouls in his 11 games of 20+ minutes this year. I don't care if Asik's rebounds drop a little bit and his blocks, his whole reason on the court is to protect the paint and keep teams from shooting layups.

All you use Asik on offense for is for setting picks and grabbing rebounds, nothing more.

It's not we think Asik is a god... but Noah doesn't have much offense himself, he'll get you what, 2 extra baskets a game for 5-7 million more a year? I would love to keep Noah and move Deng or Boozer before him but Boozer doesn't have near the value Noah has.

[fleet]

nobody makes Ostertag look like Olajawon. You're exagerating

Why is your avvy of the Thunder? Are you a Thunder fan or a Bulls fan?

I think I may be both. Essentially I have 2 teams. The Bulls, and anybody who plays the Heat.

[LoveDaBoo]

nobody makes Ostertag look like Olajawon. You're exagerating

He. Can't. Catch. A. Basketball. It's not like he can't shoot or has no post skills, or is a bad free-throw shooter: though all of those things are true. It's that he can't even catch an entry pass when he's open for an easy score, or on the rare occasions where he does, he usually brings the ball down to his waist and gets stripped. He's the closest thing I've ever seen to a team playing 4 on 5. He's way worse for your offense than Bogans. Like, by a mile.

And Air P. can say what he wants, but that dude simply is not in the condition to play 30+ 82 games.

[LoveDaBoo]

When it comes to trading Noah and starting Asik, it really depends on what we're talking about in terms of return. I would definitely be for trading Noah if it meant getting a stud SG back. If we can turn Noah and the Bobcats' pick into Eric Gordon or James Harden, I'd definitely do that. Rose/Gordon/Deng/Boozer/Asik is more than enough offense to cover up Asik's deficiencies.

It's a much tougher decision if you're talking about someone like Kevin Martin, who, while good, is probably not a legit #2 option on a championship contender.

It's no decision either way. You can't start Asik and win a championship.

[AirP.]

When it comes to trading Noah and starting Asik, it really depends on what we're talking about in terms of return. I would definitely be for trading Noah if it meant getting a stud SG back. If we can turn Noah and the Bobcats' pick into Eric Gordon or James Harden, I'd definitely do that. Rose/Gordon/Deng/Boozer/Asik is more than enough offense to cover up Asik's deficiencies.

It's a much tougher decision if you're talking about someone like Kevin Martin, who, while good, is probably not a legit #2 option on a championship contender.

I guess I'm putting more faith in the defense then most people, even with Noah gone(but would much rather have it be Boozer). I guess I have more faith in Thib's ability to get the most out of the defense even without Noah on the roster.

[AirP.]

When it comes to trading Noah and starting Asik, it really depends on what we're talking about in terms of return. I would definitely be for trading Noah if it meant getting a stud SG back. If we can turn Noah and the Bobcats' pick into Eric Gordon or James Harden, I'd definitely do that. Rose/Gordon/Deng/Boozer/Asik is more than enough offense to cover up Asik's deficiencies.

It's a much tougher decision if you're talking about someone like Kevin Martin, who, while good, is probably not a legit #2 option on a championship contender.

It's no decision either way. You can't start Asik and win a championship.

That's right, those 2 extra baskets Noah brings are much bigger then having a much better option at SG then we currently have.

[blumeany]

Asik as your starter is a terrible idea. And trading Noah instead of Deng or Boozer is an even worse one.

First of all, Noah makes less.

Second, Noah provides you with a lot of value - especially in Thibs's system. Is Asik as good of a rebounder? No. Does Asik give you all the put back baskets and offensive rebounds? No. Can Asik run the floor AND bring the ball up the court? HELL NO. Can Asik switch between guarding <insert Heat scrub center here> to guarding Lebron, Bosh, or Wade? No. Noah's stats might not be sexy, but I think anyone who has qualms about unloading Deng because of his value to the team, should not even consider thinking about moving Noah. No one truly 'does more' for this team than Noah.

Only way I'd ever dream of moving Noah is if we were either getting Dwight Howard, Andrew Bynum, or some combination of a more serviceable center and a #2 scorer type.

[Sparky134]

I'll tell you: you're just dead wrong. The guy has a mental block. You can't roll with him as your starting center. You just can't.

I just disagree. IMO you can easily play with a defense only center. Or used to be able to. The Jazz specialized in it. Mark Eaton and Greg Ostertag played on some pretty dang good teams. Today's game is more oriented towards a more mobile kind of player, but the good news on that is....Asik is a mobile center.

Asik makes Ostertag look like Olajuwon. There's a difference between your typical "defense only center" and a guy who literally will cripple your offense.

My [b]god is Asik over-rated on these boards[/b]. Edit: And as has been pointed out, Asik averages 5 fouls per 36. Even if you only give him ~30 minutes, he's going to be close to fouling out every game.

So true. Asik is fine where he is: a back-up playing 10-15 minutes. He can do one thing- protect the paint and while he is decent at that some here make it out that he is a gigantic defensive god. I couldn't bear to watch this guy be our starting center.

[LoveDaBoo]

When it comes to trading Noah and starting Asik, it really depends on what we're talking about in terms of return. I would definitely be for trading Noah if it meant getting a stud SG back. If we can turn Noah and the Bobcats' pick into Eric Gordon or James Harden, I'd definitely do that. Rose/Gordon/Deng/Boozer/Asik is more than enough offense to cover up Asik's deficiencies.

It's a much tougher decision if you're talking about someone like Kevin Martin, who, while good, is probably not a legit #2 option on a championship contender.

It's no decision either way. You can't start Asik and win a championship.

That's right, those 2 extra baskets Noah brings are much bigger then having a much better option at SG then we currently have.

It's not simply that Noah scores more: he's more of a threat to score. He also passes much better. I'm sorry, but you're drunk on Asik koolaid.

[D_GoLow]

Nothing gets me more amped then watching Asik (the "Turkish Hammer") throw it down. I think he can definitely improve his offense for next season. Game 6 at Philly, didn't he drain a 20 footer in the 1st quarter...I'm not saying that's a big deal but there's HOPE.