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Wendell Carter Jr - The Block Panther Edition

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Right pick?

Yes
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91%
No
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9%
 
Total votes: 254

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Re: Bulls select Wendell Carter Jr 7th overall - Merged 

Post#1041 » by BullsFTW » Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:24 pm

League Circles wrote:
BullsFTW wrote:
League Circles wrote:Wow, I thought I was the only one who would have considered him at #1.

You're really high on WCJ huh. Do you believe he'll be a franchise type of player? Just curious because I didn't watch many Duke games.

I am high on him. Franchise player in how I define the term? Probably not, no. I just think he has arguably the highest floor (possibly the surest thing to be a good player - and I think the value of having legit good players is underappreciated). I was concerned about bust potential from guys ahead of him for these reasons:

Ayton - questionable motor and defensive instincts

Bagley - questionable length, shooting range, defensive instincts

Luka - questionable athletic ability limiting him on both ends

JJJ - other than spot up shooting, questionable offensive skills, can't stop fouling

Bamba - questionable offensive skills, motor

Trae Young - sucks

I guess fans were expecting the Bulls to get the "shiny new toy" after a year of trying to tank. That shiny new toy is what draft experts tell us what we want, but maybe not what we need. WCJ not only looks to be a better fit, but like what you mentioned could be the surest thing out of all the top prospects.

What I don't understand is people tend to knock off WCJ's potential, sure he's not the most athletic, but who's to stay his ceiling is not as high as Ayton's. Why can't WCJ be great?
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Re: Bulls select Wendell Carter Jr 7th overall - Merged 

Post#1042 » by BullsFTW » Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:27 pm

johnnyvann840 wrote:
keobulls wrote:I think that Wendell seems like a safe or boring pick because he moves so efficiently. Everyone is underestimating his athleticism because he moved like Tim Duncan this year at Duke. Carter doesn't jump any higher than he needs to to get the job done, just like Duncan never had amazing feats of athleticism. But a little shorter Dunca with a 3 ball would definitely help winning, no matter how unexciting he is (I hated Duncan for the longest time because he even made dunking boring). This video shows much more athleticism than his time at Duke:



His footwork is a thing of beauty. You can tell he really does stay up nights watching Hakeem footage. He's got some of the Dream's footwork down to a T. Looks like a 12 year NBA vet in that video and he's 17 there. Wow. Don't be surprised 3 or 4 years from now when he is a better NBA player than Ayton and a true two way big. Really glad he's a Bull and you should be too.

Great footwork is what made Hakeem and Duncan sure Hall of Famers. That's what made Embiid a franchise type player. The more I watch WCJ, the more I'm in awe with his skills. His great footwork, along with skills and intelligence is going to make him a star in the NBA one day.
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Re: Bulls select Wendell Carter Jr 7th overall - Merged 

Post#1043 » by sco » Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:34 pm

I am still in wait-and-see mode.

I enjoy the rhetoric about him being the most complete player. I said before, I think his bust potential may be the lowest in the draft. I think the FO made the right choice not trading up, if that required a future 1st.

My frustration is that IMO you need a top 5 NBA player on your team to win a championship. Now look many of our guys have upside potential, so while I'm not ruling that possibility out, I wouldn't bet that either pick (or anyone else on the team) will ever be a top 5 (or even top 10) player.

The reason that the draft is so important is that it's rare that a top player joins a team that doesn't already have a top player, so we're sorta stuck hoping to get lucky (again) in the draft.
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Re: Bulls select Wendell Carter Jr 7th overall - Merged 

Post#1044 » by dougthonus » Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:34 pm

Hangtime84 wrote:All i know is Bamba felt just as disappointed as we all did that night.


I didn't feel disappointed, I was ecstatic. At my draft party, the vast majority of people were also happy. I like Carter more than Bamba.
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Re: Bulls select Wendell Carter Jr 7th overall - Merged 

Post#1045 » by NDave79 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:37 pm

I found a site that has a seemingly never ending supply of Wendell Carter clips that I had never seem before on youtube. I still haven't looked through everything, but I think their is an incorrect narrative that Wendell has always been a back to the basket old school big that is just now starting to venture away from the basket. I think that's mostly how he was used in AAU ball, but it appears that for his high school team he played a mix of inside and outside and looked good doing it. Even though he showed a lot of skills at Duke, I think he is going to surprise in the NBA. Also, I continue to see some eye opening displays of athleticism. The more I dig into learning about Wendell, the happier I am with the pick.

This link is probably the best all in one highlight video I've found on the site (the site I found, not Realgm) so far.

https://www.hudl.com/video/3/4879040/5947d915b01a1508146caf5a

and here are a couple more links to many, many more videos, lol

https://www.hudl.com/profile/4879040/Wendell-Carter/videos
https://www.hudl.com/profile/4879040/Wendell-Carter
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Re: Bulls select Wendell Carter Jr 7th overall - Merged 

Post#1046 » by sco » Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:53 pm

dougthonus wrote:
Hangtime84 wrote:All i know is Bamba felt just as disappointed as we all did that night.


I didn't feel disappointed, I was ecstatic. At my draft party, the vast majority of people were also happy. I like Carter more than Bamba.

So you served hard liquor, huh?
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Re: Bulls select Wendell Carter Jr 7th overall - Merged 

Post#1047 » by Ctownbulls » Tue Jun 26, 2018 4:57 pm

sco wrote:
dougthonus wrote:
Hangtime84 wrote:All i know is Bamba felt just as disappointed as we all did that night.


I didn't feel disappointed, I was ecstatic. At my draft party, the vast majority of people were also happy. I like Carter more than Bamba.

So you served hard liquor, huh?


I don't know who will be better but let's not act like Mo Bamba was some world beater, next generational talent in college. He has insane measurables, had a solid year, and had some impressive workout videos.
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Re: Bulls select Wendell Carter Jr 7th overall 

Post#1048 » by nitetrain8603 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 5:00 pm

Mark K wrote:
nitetrain8603 wrote:Yes I do because he has the lateral quickness. Draymond Green went 2nd round, did you laugh at GS?


Are you using an outlier like Green to compare Mitchell Robinson to him, or to suggest Robinson, despite his character issues, will actually be a successful player worthy of the 7th selection in the draft?


There are plenty 2nd rounders who have become all-stars because teams saw the potential and properly developed them. And there are 2nd rounders who have played much better than lottery picks in almost every recent draft. Would you like to go down that list?
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Re: Bulls select Wendell Carter Jr 7th overall - Merged 

Post#1049 » by Benedict Miller » Tue Jun 26, 2018 5:08 pm

sco wrote:I am still in wait-and-see mode.

I enjoy the rhetoric about him being the most complete player. I said before, I think his bust potential may be the lowest in the draft. I think the FO made the right choice not trading up, if that required a future 1st.

My frustration is that IMO you need a top 5 NBA player on your team to win a championship. Now look many of our guys have upside potential, so while I'm not ruling that possibility out, I wouldn't bet that either pick (or anyone else on the team) will ever be a top 5 (or even top 10) player.

The reason that the draft is so important is that it's rare that a top player joins a team that doesn't already have a top player, so we're sorta stuck hoping to get lucky (again) in the draft.


Who was available you would have preferred at 7?
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Re: Bulls select Wendell Carter Jr 7th overall - Merged 

Post#1050 » by sco » Tue Jun 26, 2018 5:47 pm

Benedict Miller wrote:
sco wrote:I am still in wait-and-see mode.

I enjoy the rhetoric about him being the most complete player. I said before, I think his bust potential may be the lowest in the draft. I think the FO made the right choice not trading up, if that required a future 1st.

My frustration is that IMO you need a top 5 NBA player on your team to win a championship. Now look many of our guys have upside potential, so while I'm not ruling that possibility out, I wouldn't bet that either pick (or anyone else on the team) will ever be a top 5 (or even top 10) player.

The reason that the draft is so important is that it's rare that a top player joins a team that doesn't already have a top player, so we're sorta stuck hoping to get lucky (again) in the draft.


Who was available you would have preferred at 7?

Admittedly, I struggle with the answer. I am of the mind that there may be no future allstars but numerous starters in this draft. Maybe next year.
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Re: Bulls select Wendell Carter Jr 7th overall - Merged 

Post#1051 » by cool007 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 5:51 pm

Call me crazy but I can see so many similarities between Carter Jr and Tim Duncan. I know people just like to dismiss this type of comparison right away since Duncan is a HOFer but I am 100% serious on this.

Carter might be an inch or 2 shorter than Duncan but he does have a very good reach and wing span to make up for it. He has a very good footwork like him, nice shooting touch and can also stretch it all the way to 3pt line - which Duncan did late in his career. He is also a very good shot blocker/rebounder etc like Duncan as well. Not to mention he studies the game like no other and has great IQ and team first oriented game. He is a very underrated passer as well.

In today's NBA, him being an inch short is not going to be a big deal IMO. Once he gets more experience and gets comfortable, I think we will have a great debate on who is better between Carter Jr and Markkanen.

Mark my words.
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Re: Bulls select Wendell Carter Jr 7th overall - Merged 

Post#1052 » by bad knees » Tue Jun 26, 2018 5:55 pm

As I have said, I really like WCJ as a player, and think he has a high upside as modern day C. I think he can play C in all circumstances, including when other teams go small. My issues have to do with the fit between him and Lauri. Both are natural small ball C's, but one of them is going to have to defend small ball 4's. Thus, I have been arguing that the Bulls would have been better off taking JJJ, another upside big, whose elite agility would allow him to play the 4 in a small ball situation next to Lauri. I really question whether both Lauri and Wendell can stay on the floor at the same time when teams go small. I understand that others don't share my concern.

Now, I am about to head into blasphemy: when you look at the stats and the eye test, I am prepared to argue that WCJ is a higher upside NBA player than Lauri. Here is a chart that compares the numbers of Lauri and WCJ during their freshman years in college (I added JJJ for good measure). Although Lauri was one year older than WCJ, WCJ was better than Lauri in just about every area other than 3 point shooting. Some key stats for me (all per 36):

Assists: Lauri 1.0; WCJ 2.7
Blocks: Lauri .6; WCJ 2.8
Steals: Lauri .5; WCJ 1.1

http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=lauri-markkanen--wendell-carter--jaren-jackson-jr

Lauri's deficits in these areas carried over to his rookie year in the NBA - his per 36 averages for these stats were 1.4, .7 and .7 respectively. I think it's clear that WCJ is a better passer and a better rim defender.

Given what I have seen from the tape, I would put them about equal in terms of defending on the perimeter. I think that both have above average lateral agility for a player of their size (and thus each can play small ball 5), but not unicorn type ability like JJJ has. Both will benefit from improved technique.

Offensively, WCJ has a better post game. I would say that neither is elite in terms of creating their own shot out on the floor, but both have demonstrated some potential in that area.

As for 3 point shooting, Lauri is clearly elite and better. His form is a thing of beauty and he shoots it like a star SF. But WCJ is no slouch either. He shot 41% on 3's at Duke on relatively low volume, and his tape shows a good form. We have seen multiple big men in recent years go from zero to good in a few years in terms of three point shooting - Embiid, KAT and AD come to mind. So there is plenty of reason to believe that WCJ has strong upside here. Not Lauri upside, but like I said, no slouch either.

In terms of intangibles, both have great makeups and are extremely coachable and likeable. And both have extraneous reasons to be hopeful about their upside: Lauri went straight from Finland junior ball to Arizona, which was a big leap, and he exceeded expectations last year (which is significant - we have seen Lauri play in the league and have seen what he can do); on the other hand, WCJ was a year younger in college than Lauri was and subjugated his game to Bagley last year for the good of the team.

At this point, I am not going to advocate that anything be done in light of this analysis. I just throw it out there to the forum for debate. Who is likely to be the better NBA player: Lauri or WCJ?

Now I will go into hiding for a couple of weeks.
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Re: Bulls select Wendell Carter Jr 7th overall - Merged 

Post#1053 » by BullsFTW » Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:01 pm

cool007 wrote:Call me crazy but I can see so many similarities between Carter Jr and Tim Duncan. I know people just like to dismiss this type of comparison right away since Duncan is a HOFer but I am 100% serious on this.

Carter might be an inch or 2 shorter than Duncan but he does have a very good reach and wing span to make up for it. He has a very good footwork like him, nice shooting touch and can also stretch it all the way to 3pt line - which Duncan did late in his career. He is also a very good shot blocker/rebounder etc like Duncan as well. Not to mention he studies the game like no other and has great IQ and team first oriented game. He is a very underrated passer as well.

In today's NBA, him being an inch short is not going to be a big deal IMO. Once he gets more experience and gets comfortable, I think we will have a great debate on who is better between Carter Jr and Markkanen.

Mark my words.

Duncan was able to develop into an elite two way player throughout his college career. He got better every year. It remains to be seen if WCJ can even reach a level near Duncan, but WCJ does have the physical tools, IQ, and skills to be an exceptional player. Let's wait and see how he transitions from college to pro.
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Re: Bulls select Wendell Carter Jr 7th overall - Merged 

Post#1054 » by bad knees » Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:08 pm

cool007 wrote:Call me crazy but I can see so many similarities between Carter Jr and Tim Duncan. I know people just like to dismiss this type of comparison right away since Duncan is a HOFer but I am 100% serious on this.

Carter might be an inch or 2 shorter than Duncan but he does have a very good reach and wing span to make up for it. He has a very good footwork like him, nice shooting touch and can also stretch it all the way to 3pt line - which Duncan did late in his career. He is also a very good shot blocker/rebounder etc like Duncan as well. Not to mention he studies the game like no other and has great IQ and team first oriented game. He is a very underrated passer as well.

In today's NBA, him being an inch short is not going to be a big deal IMO. Once he gets more experience and gets comfortable, I think we will have a great debate on who is better between Carter Jr and Markkanen.

Mark my words.


I can see that you and I were having similar thoughts at just about the same time. Interesting.
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Re: Bulls select Wendell Carter Jr 7th overall - Merged 

Post#1055 » by bulliedog8 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:30 pm

Any word on if he will start or will he be off the bench this year while lopez starts?

I hope Wendell starts even if he doesnt "earn" it this year.
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Re: Bulls select Wendell Carter Jr 7th overall - Merged 

Post#1056 » by League Circles » Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:38 pm

bulliedog8 wrote:Any word on if he will start or will he be off the bench this year while lopez starts?

I hope Wendell starts even if he doesnt "earn" it this year.

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Re: Bulls select Wendell Carter Jr 7th overall - Merged 

Post#1057 » by keobulls » Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:00 pm

bad knees wrote:As I have said, I really like WCJ as a player, and think he has a high upside as modern day C. I think he can play C in all circumstances, including when other teams go small. My issues have to do with the fit between him and Lauri. Both are natural small ball C's, but one of them is going to have to defend small ball 4's. Thus, I have been arguing that the Bulls would have been better off taking JJJ, another upside big, whose elite agility would allow him to play the 4 in a small ball situation next to Lauri. I really question whether both Lauri and Wendell can stay on the floor at the same time when teams go small. I understand that others don't share my concern.

I understand the fear with the bolded in general terms, but when you actually play it out, how many "small ball 4's" around the league would really pick Lauri apart? And of the handful that might, how many have top level SF's that Lauri could not be "hidden" on for a while during these small lineups? Thinking of the ultimate "small ball" lineup that GS has, Lauri would be be fine on Iggy, and wouldn't get abnormally abused by KD... and that is the BEST "small ball" lineup to have to worry about.
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Re: Bulls select Wendell Carter Jr 7th overall - Merged 

Post#1058 » by JimmyJammer » Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:08 pm

The Bulls are going to have one of the strongest and deepest PF and Center combo in the league with Lopez, Lauri, Portis and Carter. I think we can still use more sizes on the wings, especially at SF. We are going to struggle with wings like Tatum, Durant, Paul George, LeBron, etc...
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Re: Bulls select Wendell Carter Jr 7th overall - Merged 

Post#1059 » by 23-7 » Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:39 pm

^Keep Zipser
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Re: Bulls select Wendell Carter Jr 7th overall - Merged 

Post#1060 » by Betta Bulleavit » Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:40 pm

JimmyJammer wrote:The Bulls are going to have one of the strongest and deepest PF and Center combo in the league with Lopez, Lauri, Portis and Carter. I think we can still use more sizes on the wings, especially at SF. We are going to struggle with wings like Tatum, Durant, Paul George, LeBron, etc...

Yeah, I agree with you about our front court rotation. We will actually be able to beat most teams up front that we compete against. If Dunn and Lavine manage to take substantial steps this year, we can forget about a lottery pick next year as we will be way too competitive most nights. Which is fine by me. We need a star still. I get that. But I at least see the foundation forming.

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