2019 Draft Thread Volume #6 - Post Lottery

[GimmeDat]

FYI, anything I wrote about Trey Young, it wasn’t me. I was hacked. But only for those posts. Weird.

God forbid Coby White ends up a star next year - we'll both be eating crow.

Me too. And don't feel bad about Trae, Duck. I wasn't very high either. I didn't have him in my top 8. I did nail most of it though. Had Luka and JJJ as my top 2 and I still think they'll be the two best players from that draft.

And all three of will look bad if White is a star in a year. It's still too early to even judge last year, but it's easy to see that Doncic and Jackson Jr. are going to be special. And WCJ was a solid pick.

I'm happy I came around to WCJ towards the draft last year - for most of the pre-draft process I was team Bamba, but I think I ended up having WCJ like 4th. I still think they're not too far off, I feel like Bamba could really turn in to something notable, but he was always a project and Wendell is already good.

[Shill]

Kevin Porter Jr is co-captain of the Open Gym All Stars along with Reddish.

It’s amazing, isn’t it?

Elite athletes who’ve played basketball their entire lives can dunk and make threes and stuff.

[kingkirk]

Well if that’s the reasoning, the Bulls should use this situation to their advantage and get a lowball deal for Ball.

I just don’t buy Garland to the Lakers because he makes little sense with their roster. And of the top 6-7 picks, he’s also the biggest project and has the biggest question marks due to lack of playing time. 2 things that LeBron isn’t interested in.

On or off ball, with LeBron on the floor or not, Garland makes a heap of sense for the Lakers roster.

Garland’s ball handling would be wasted with the Lakers. Sure, he can shoot, but so can Hunter


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Was Kyrie Irving's ball-handling wasted on the Cavs whilst LeBron was there?

I'm going to assume this idea that Garland not fitting in LA next to James is born out of hope that he somehow slides and ends up in Chicago.

If Garland's near facsimile is some version of Irving or Lillard, he's a perfect fit in LA.

[NecessaryEvil]

He's gonna be a Laker..

sigh..

[kulaz3000]

I'm trying to work out why such a mediocre ceiling is being placed on Deandre Hunter.

He scored 19pp/40 on one of the slowest paced teams in basketball, on 62% TS, hes functionally a pretty good athlete, he can pull up OTD, he has a mid-post creation game, solid feel/makes the right passes, can handle decently, gets to the line at a solid rate. Obviously a talented defender. Low stl/blks scare me a little bit but Virginia play a conservative scheme.

What's the catch? I get he's not a flashy player and he's on the older side, but from everything I can tell, he was a strong scorer in college at all 3 levels. He can only stand to up the 3 point volume, which seems inevitable given the super efficient % on a medium volume, and he the tools to further develop his on-ball game.

Even guys that like him in this draft are calling him a plug and play Hawks - Demarre Carroll type, which seems like a major undersell.

He reminds me a little of Ron Artest.

They are above average athletes, but not crazy athletic. They move methodically around the court, without being overly smooth, but they get to where they need to. Their set shots are decent, however, they aren't exactly players you can imagine consistently creating off the dribble.

Now the biggest difference is that Ron Artest was a beast on the defensive end from the get go, and Hunter though solid, isn't exactly a lock down defender, but he has all the tools to be one, with his quick feet, long arms and his solid build.

[Chi town]

He's gonna be a Laker..

sigh..

Looks like it. I think Lakers trade their pick for AD.

Problem is Griffin for NOLA would pick Garland too.

[GimmeDat]

I'm trying to work out why such a mediocre ceiling is being placed on Deandre Hunter.

He scored 19pp/40 on one of the slowest paced teams in basketball, on 62% TS, hes functionally a pretty good athlete, he can pull up OTD, he has a mid-post creation game, solid feel/makes the right passes, can handle decently, gets to the line at a solid rate. Obviously a talented defender. Low stl/blks scare me a little bit but Virginia play a conservative scheme.

What's the catch? I get he's not a flashy player and he's on the older side, but from everything I can tell, he was a strong scorer in college at all 3 levels. He can only stand to up the 3 point volume, which seems inevitable given the super efficient % on a medium volume, and he the tools to further develop his on-ball game.

Even guys that like him in this draft are calling him a plug and play Hawks - Demarre Carroll type, which seems like a major undersell.

He reminds me a little of Ron Artest.

They are above average athletes, but not crazy athletic. They move methodically around the court, without being overly smooth, but they get to where they need to. Their set shots are decent, however, they aren't exactly players you can imagine consistently creating off the dribble.

Now the biggest difference is that Ron Artest was a beast on the defensive end from the get go, and Hunter though solid, isn't exactly a lock down defender, but he has all the tools to be one, with his quick feet, long arms and his solid build.

Yeah, that's an interesting comparison. I'm too young to have seen Ron well before the MWP years, so it's hard for me to say, but I feel like Ron was a bit smaller, but a bit more fluid offensively, and obviously still very strong. The big difference seems to be in personality, obviously Artest was a fiery/aggressive type on both ends. Hunter plays hard but he's more of a conservative player and his steal/block rates pale in comparison.

I think Hunter is a really exceptional defender in his own right though, he contains guys as well as anybody, can guard a variety of positions and the advanced stats speak really highly of him. Just doesn't stand out as much because he's not as disruptive.

[panthermark]

He's gonna be a Laker..

sigh..

Looks like it. I think Lakers trade their pick for AD.

Problem is Griffin for NOLA would pick Garland too.

That is fine....as long as they trade Jru to us!

[Jvaughn]

They're fun to have a look at but I would stress that pro days are probably the most worthless thing available in judging a player. They're highly choreographed workouts by trainers done to show players strengths and hide their weaknesses. Plus, so easy to get carried away by 1 session's worth of shooting sample. I think they provide more misdirection to scouts than help. I mean, you've got whole seasons of college play to analyze and judge already and that's in game situation.

Yi Jianlian comes to mind when thinking of players who excelled in choreographed workouts, but was quickly exposed against real competition.

[Jvaughn]

Well if that’s the reasoning, the Bulls should use this situation to their advantage and get a lowball deal for Ball.

I just don’t buy Garland to the Lakers because he makes little sense with their roster. And of the top 6-7 picks, he’s also the biggest project and has the biggest question marks due to lack of playing time. 2 things that LeBron isn’t interested in.

On or off ball, with LeBron on the floor or not, Garland makes a heap of sense for the Lakers roster.

Definitely. I picture a Kyrie type of role for him with LeBron. More of a Lilliard type of setup if he has the keys as the main ball handler.

[dumbell78]

I'm trying to work out why such a mediocre ceiling is being placed on Deandre Hunter.

He scored 19pp/40 on one of the slowest paced teams in basketball, on 62% TS, hes functionally a pretty good athlete, he can pull up OTD, he has a mid-post creation game, solid feel/makes the right passes, can handle decently, gets to the line at a solid rate. Obviously a talented defender. Low stl/blks scare me a little bit but Virginia play a conservative scheme.

What's the catch? I get he's not a flashy player and he's on the older side, but from everything I can tell, he was a strong scorer in college at all 3 levels. He can only stand to up the 3 point volume, which seems inevitable given the super efficient % on a medium volume, and he the tools to further develop his on-ball game.

Even guys that like him in this draft are calling him a plug and play Hawks - Demarre Carroll type, which seems like a major undersell.

He reminds me a little of Ron Artest.

They are above average athletes, but not crazy athletic. They move methodically around the court, without being overly smooth, but they get to where they need to. Their set shots are decent, however, they aren't exactly players you can imagine consistently creating off the dribble.

Now the biggest difference is that Ron Artest was a beast on the defensive end from the get go, and Hunter though solid, isn't exactly a lock down defender, but he has all the tools to be one, with his quick feet, long arms and his solid build.

Yeah, that's an interesting comparison. I'm too young to have seen Ron well before the MWP years, so it's hard for me to say, but I feel like Ron was a bit smaller, but a bit more fluid offensively, and obviously still very strong. The big difference seems to be in personality, obviously Artest was a fiery/aggressive type on both ends. Hunter plays hard but he's more of a conservative player and his steal/block rates pale in comparison.

I think Hunter is a really exceptional defender in his own right though, he contains guys as well as anybody, can guard a variety of positions and the advanced stats speak really highly of him. Just doesn't stand out as much because he's not as disruptive.

Ron was shorter but just as heavy, maybe even heavier out of college. Ron had a good wingspan like Hunter, don't know if he was as long as Hunter. Ron was super strong and yeah bat $hit crazy. Ron in college wasn't even close to the shooter Hunter is out of college.

If Hunter can turn into a DPOY candidate and maintain that J, I would do backflips for landing him #7. From my POV I think Hunter is a fine defender and did an exceptional job on Culver in that championship game (example). He can lock down with the best of them.

[Capn'O]

Oh and i just came back from the Knicks board and they are talking culver all of a sudden.
As recently as last night there was nothing.

Nobody wants him at 3 but there's a rumor of a trade down scenario with the Cavs where we would get Culver. Some of us do like him better but it's pretty clear RJ is the better asset. Likewise, I imagine the Knicks FO isn't yet solidified on who to take. Or they shouldn't be anyway.

[Jimako10]

They're fun to have a look at but I would stress that pro days are probably the most worthless thing available in judging a player. They're highly choreographed workouts by trainers done to show players strengths and hide their weaknesses. Plus, so easy to get carried away by 1 session's worth of shooting sample. I think they provide more misdirection to scouts than help. I mean, you've got whole seasons of college play to analyze and judge already and that's in game situation.

Yi Jianlian comes to mind when thinking of players who excelled in choreographed workouts, but was quickly exposed against real competition.

How dare anyone not mention the king of choreographed workouts, Mr. Andrea Bargnani!

[AKfanatic]

This is going to be a really interesting thread to revisit a year from now.

I was just reading last years draft thread from around this time a year ago. It's a gas.

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=1715795&start=140

FYI, anything I wrote about Trey Young, it wasn’t me. I was hacked. But only for those posts. Weird.

Yep me too.

I was wrong about Trae, completely. Kudos to those that were really high on him, I know Suz was.. bravo.

The guys I was high on were Luka, JJJ, Carter, and SGA.

I liked taking a swing on Bamba too, still think he’s got a shot at being special in a couple seasons... though he was more of a project than I expected.

It’s still crazy to me how many people were loudly wanting MPJ.

[AKfanatic]

Hunter and White both look like guys the Bulls would pick. In one of the threads last season I spoke of Carter being the obvious pick in a draft that it appeared Pax was taking the reigns back in. Both White and Hunter just scream Pax type picks... Hunter I wouldn’t mind at all, White...eh, yuck.

[Benedict Miller]

We draft Hunter, I'll be happy, but doubt he'll last to the Bulls. White needs to handle pressure better and be a better playmaker in half court. Seems to settle for jumpshots, but I believe he learned a lot playing point guard for Roy Williams, and Roy doesn't often start freshmen. White would be a nice fit with the roster we have now and I believe he has good potential.

[GimmeDat]

I get the concerns with Hunter but I still like him. I think these are the outcomes I'd be happy with in this draft -

a) Draft (ideally) Culver, if not then one of Hunter/Garland, at 7
c) Trade back to like late lottery (obv. depending on what we get as compensation), and draft someone like Horton-Tucker

I'm also okay with trading for Lonzo, but I would want an additional asset back.

[Red Larrivee]

I'm trying to work out why such a mediocre ceiling is being placed on Deandre Hunter.

He scored 19pp/40 on one of the slowest paced teams in basketball, on 62% TS, hes functionally a pretty good athlete, he can pull up OTD, he has a mid-post creation game, solid feel/makes the right passes, can handle decently, gets to the line at a solid rate. Obviously a talented defender. Low stl/blks scare me a little bit but Virginia play a conservative scheme.

What's the catch? I get he's not a flashy player and he's on the older side, but from everything I can tell, he was a strong scorer in college at all 3 levels. He can only stand to up the 3 point volume, which seems inevitable given the super efficient % on a medium volume, and he the tools to further develop his on-ball game.

Even guys that like him in this draft are calling him a plug and play Hawks - Demarre Carroll type, which seems like a major undersell.

Sometimes lazy narratives are built around older prospects.

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[Red Larrivee]

Oh and i just came back from the Knicks board and they are talking culver all of a sudden.
As recently as last night there was nothing.

Nobody wants him at 3 but there's a rumor of a trade down scenario with the Cavs where we would get Culver. Some of us do like him better but it's pretty clear RJ is the better asset. Likewise, I imagine the Knicks FO isn't yet solidified on who to take. Or they shouldn't be anyway.

My guess: Knicks want Barrett, but they're trying to force Cleveland to move up for Culver. If not, Knicks will just draft Barrett anyway.

I'm growing optimistic that Hunter is going to be the pick at 7. 3-6 looks like it should be Barrett, Garland, Culver, White.

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[cjbulls]

I'm trying to work out why such a mediocre ceiling is being placed on Deandre Hunter.

He scored 19pp/40 on one of the slowest paced teams in basketball, on 62% TS, hes functionally a pretty good athlete, he can pull up OTD, he has a mid-post creation game, solid feel/makes the right passes, can handle decently, gets to the line at a solid rate. Obviously a talented defender. Low stl/blks scare me a little bit but Virginia play a conservative scheme.

What's the catch? I get he's not a flashy player and he's on the older side, but from everything I can tell, he was a strong scorer in college at all 3 levels. He can only stand to up the 3 point volume, which seems inevitable given the super efficient % on a medium volume, and he the tools to further develop his on-ball game.

Even guys that like him in this draft are calling him a plug and play Hawks - Demarre Carroll type, which seems like a major undersell.

Sometimes lazy narratives are built around older prospects.

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Or people can have other opinions. The reply from the SI article that JCool posted is obviously thoughtful analysis.