Potential Zach Trade Partners? 24/25 Edition

[Indomitable]

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This statistic is hard to believe

I believe it. As a fan base I feel like we have short term memory, or selective memory of his play over the last 2-3 years. When he isn't hurt or making bone-headed plays because he's trying to do too much, the dude can ball like few others in the NBA.

Seems insane to me that we are so desperate to part with him that we would even consider attaching picks.

It is simple the organization is using the same trick that most Politicians use.

It is easier to use negative press instead owning your failures.

There is no accountability. The lost of Ball destroyed the team.

I actually want to see Ball and Lavine on the court at least one more time. It was an actual joy to watch those guys play together in 2021.

[coldfish]

Zach wants to play on a good team. No good team is even in a position to take on Zach without offloading a huge amount of bad contracts. Chicago isn't going to make a trade that actually makes them worse. It seems that even Klutch understands this.

Overall, Zach and the Bulls are married to each other. Either Zach is going to have to play for the Bulls as is or he is going to have to fake injuries for the next few years. I get the impression that the Bulls are OK with either.

Then why do we keep hearing stupid trades. We are trying to attach assets to take back worst players .

If this is true. I need to become a real Nuggets or Spur fan.

My God does this team really to lack this much business acumen.

Well, there is logic and emotion. The logical thing at this point is for both sides to mend fences and for Zach to come back and play his best. Its win-win.

It seems that both sides dislike each other so much that they just want the relationship over. Its emotional. I think that is where the bad rumors come from. I get it from Zach's perspective but management shouldn't let emotion cloud their judgment.

[dougthonus]

Zach wants to play on a good team. No good team is even in a position to take on Zach without offloading a huge amount of bad contracts. Chicago isn't going to make a trade that actually makes them worse. It seems that even Klutch understands this.

Overall, Zach and the Bulls are married to each other. Either Zach is going to have to play for the Bulls as is or he is going to have to fake injuries for the next few years. I get the impression that the Bulls are OK with either.

Then why do we keep hearing stupid trades. We are trying to attach assets to take back worst players .

If this is true. I need to become a real Nuggets or Spur fan.

My God does this team really to lack this much business acumen.

Well, there is logic and emotion. The logical thing at this point is for both sides to mend fences and for Zach to come back and play his best. Its win-win.

It seems that both sides dislike each other so much that they just want the relationship over. Its emotional. I think that is where the bad rumors come from. I get it from Zach's perspective but management shouldn't let emotion cloud their judgment.

I'd also note, what rumors has anyone heard about the Bulls attaching an asset to get off of Zach? There was some talk which seemed like speculation that we could have used Caruso to get off Zach (but didn't).

I think this is also a bit of conflating reporting issue. I've heard national analysts say that teams want an asset to take on Zach. I haven't seen anything where the Bulls tried to attach an asset and the team said no or any reports showing what we'd attach with Zach to get off his deal.

I think people are conflating what teams want vs what we are willing to do. At this specific moment in time, it feels to me like management has positioned themselves to try and mend fences with Zach. They're certainly shopping him hard, but they haven't made a trade where they pay to get rid of him, and I haven't heard of us even being close to such a trade.

[Indomitable]

Then why do we keep hearing stupid trades. We are trying to attach assets to take back worst players .

If this is true. I need to become a real Nuggets or Spur fan.

My God does this team really to lack this much business acumen.

Well, there is logic and emotion. The logical thing at this point is for both sides to mend fences and for Zach to come back and play his best. Its win-win.

It seems that both sides dislike each other so much that they just want the relationship over. Its emotional. I think that is where the bad rumors come from. I get it from Zach's perspective but management shouldn't let emotion cloud their judgment.

I'd also note, what rumors has anyone heard about the Bulls attaching an asset to get off of Zach? There was some talk which seemed like speculation that we could have used Caruso to get off Zach (but didn't).

I think this is also a bit of conflating reporting issue. I've heard national analysts say that teams want an asset to take on Zach. I haven't seen anything where the Bulls tried to attach an asset and the team said no or any reports showing what we'd attach with Zach to get off his deal.

I think people are conflating what teams want vs what we are willing to do. At this specific moment in time, it feels to me like management has positioned themselves to try and mend fences with Zach. They're certainly shopping him hard, but they haven't made a trade where they pay to get rid of him, and I haven't heard of us even being close to such a trade.

Then you sit down and have a talk with him.

Both parties need to communicate and be honest. That is the only way to move forward.

Their behavior only makes matters worst. This only makes things more toxic.

Liking someone is not necessary to work with them, but respecting each other is.

The respect I am talking about is airing the issues and at least understanding the others point of view.

Plus the lost of DeMar might help. If we run and rebound better as a team. Especially in the forward position.

[dougthonus]

Then you sit down and have a talk with him.

Both parties need to communicate and be honest. That is the only way to move forward.

Their behavior only makes matters worst. This only makes things more toxic.

Liking someone is not necessary to work with them, but respecting each other is.

The respect I am talking about is airing the issues and at least understanding the others point of view.

Plus the lost of DeMar might help. If we run and rebound better as a team. Especially in the forward position.

FWIW, I agree with all these things, but I'd also note that we also have no idea to what extent any of this has already happened. I'd guess at some point, you're going to wave the white flag on even trying a trade (if one does not materialize), so at that point you have the initial conversation with Zach, but most of this mending of fences probably has to happen in training camp.

I'd guess we won't really have any visibility into where everyone is at until that point when beat writers can at least talk with Zach and Billy regularly.

[Indomitable]

Then you sit down and have a talk with him.

Both parties need to communicate and be honest. That is the only way to move forward.

Their behavior only makes matters worst. This only makes things more toxic.

Liking someone is not necessary to work with them, but respecting each other is.

The respect I am talking about is airing the issues and at least understanding the others point of view.

Plus the lost of DeMar might help. If we run and rebound better as a team. Especially in the forward position.

FWIW, I agree with all these things, but I'd also note that we also have no idea to what extent any of this has already happened. I'd guess at some point, you're going to wave the white flag on even trying a trade (if one does not materialize), so at that point you have the initial conversation with Zach, but most of this mending of fences probably has to happen in training camp.

I'd guess we won't really have any visibility into where everyone is at until that point when beat writers can at least talk with Zach and Billy regularly.

I do not think they care what I believe. This is me just expressing how to lead and resolve issues.

I am also sick of hearing all these guys reporters and podcasters making asinine reports. These people are just stirring the pot.

[jnrjr79]

Then why do we keep hearing stupid trades. We are trying to attach assets to take back worst players .

If this is true. I need to become a real Nuggets or Spur fan.

My God does this team really to lack this much business acumen.

Well, there is logic and emotion. The logical thing at this point is for both sides to mend fences and for Zach to come back and play his best. Its win-win.

It seems that both sides dislike each other so much that they just want the relationship over. Its emotional. I think that is where the bad rumors come from. I get it from Zach's perspective but management shouldn't let emotion cloud their judgment.

I'd also note, what rumors has anyone heard about the Bulls attaching an asset to get off of Zach? There was some talk which seemed like speculation that we could have used Caruso to get off Zach (but didn't).

I think this is also a bit of conflating reporting issue. I've heard national analysts say that teams want an asset to take on Zach. I haven't seen anything where the Bulls tried to attach an asset and the team said no or any reports showing what we'd attach with Zach to get off his deal.

I think people are conflating what teams want vs what we are willing to do. At this specific moment in time, it feels to me like management has positioned themselves to try and mend fences with Zach. They're certainly shopping him hard, but they haven't made a trade where they pay to get rid of him, and I haven't heard of us even being close to such a trade.

The recent bit on this front was Cowley suggesting that the Bulls would try to use the two 2nds obtained in the DeRozan deal as a sweetener to move Zach's contract. Like many of his pieces, I couldn't tell if he was reporting something or speculating. He seems to speculate but try to have it come off like he's in the know.

The Caruso trade, to me, suggests the Bulls aren't willing to attach major assets to Zach, at least, simply to get off his deal, because I believe they could have used Caruso to do that, but instead they used him to get an asset.

[dougthonus]

The recent bit on this front was Cowley suggesting that the Bulls would try to use the two 2nds obtained in the DeRozan deal as a sweetener to move Zach's contract. Like many of his pieces, I couldn't tell if he was reporting something or speculating. He seems to speculate but try to have it come off like he's in the know.

The Caruso trade, to me, suggests the Bulls aren't willing to attach major assets to Zach, at least, simply to get off his deal, because I believe they could have used Caruso to do that, but instead they used him to get an asset.

Yeah, I think you are right on Cowley. I can't envision two second rounders being the hold up on a Zach trade. No one is taking on 140M for two second rounders, the deal is just too big for that to be difference maker.

[MrSparkle]

As much as we lament or rejoice about dumping or acquiring 2nd rounders, the fact is they are cracker jacks. You could basically buy them on draft night if your owner wants to spend cash. I think this past draft, absolutely every team traded its original 2nd rounder?

If this is the state of the market (needing to attach FRP or a good player to dump him), you officially close trade shop and tell Zach he’s starting at SF this fall.

[League Circles]

I find it very hard to believe the click bait toxicity narratives about the relationship between Zach's "camp" and the team for these reasons:

1. The Bulls org has now given Zach Lavine two large contract extensions that were questionable, including one for the max by the current management. Since then he's mostly played very well when healthy, and his health issues have not been catastrophic or chronic. So easy to believe they still see significant on court potential value in him.
2. The Bulls just signed another Klutch player to a 3 year deal.
3. The Bulls have been extremely accommodating of another large contract Klutch guy in Lonzo Ball.

Not saying there isn't any beef, especially between Zach and Billy, I just think it's likely overstated by people who need to phrase things in a certain way to sell ads.

[Ccwatercraft]

I thought KC reported that Zach didn't actually ask for a trade?

Zach knew that the Bulls have been shopping him (this is nothing new)
Bulls stood pat for the 3rd year in a row and began the season with a miserable 5-19 start
Zach told Bulls, "hey, since this is clearly not working and y'all are shopping me anyway, why don't we work together to find me a new team?" Bulls agreed.
Zach got injured, Bulls played better, no trade options can materialize because he's injured
Zach got cleared and tried to play a handful of games, but ultimately got injured again that led to surgery
Bulls continued to try to move him, but obviously no takers because he's still injured

To me, this is two sides trying to amicably work together to find a solution. Zach is not some locker room cancer that gives a "trade me or else" ultimatum like some of these other stars did. If he's not moved by the start of training camp, I think he's gonna remain professional like he always has.

Yeah originally I guess he didn’t officially ask for a trade but he clearly wants out. Even last season his body language during games showed us that he doesn’t care anymore.

KC also reported yesterday that both sides are motivated to get him traded. They are basically working together at this point to get it done.

They should focus more on Zach reintegrating into the new look Bulls. Then the rest will take care of itself. The Bulls are still to asset poor to be sending out assets just to move off of Zach’s contact.

Does that move help the team at all?

Nope. Bulls won’t be truly competitive for at least 2-3 years, and by that time, LaVine’s contract is either expiring or up. In the interim, losing Zach won’t provide for room for some quality FA or even a move where the Bulls would take on bad salary for an asset (because the Bulls have t shown any interest in doing that, ever).

Moving Zach for assets is one thing - that would help the team. But moving him even for a pure salary dump is unlikely to really have any benefit except to ownership’s wallets a little bit. Maybe an extra couple of losses towards a tank.

This is starting to feel petty and personal, like how things got with Thibs at the end. Not a good look for an org that already has a pretty bad reputation.

A trade for expiring wouldn't help us financially or with roster flexibility.

A salary dump would help, allowing us to take on salary via TPE either for assets, or just roster construction improvements, ie: younger promising players.

Overall a true salary dump doesn't do much, because it just means we have full MLE next year, but I guess it's better than only being able to use some of it because of hard cap rules.

Ideally the two best options are:

1) trade for expiring and at least one player with upside, or some future pick(s)

2) convince him to stay and play hard.

Worst option seems to be dumping him for crap and including assets to facilitate, but if that happens there must be more "issues" with zach and/or his relationship with the front office because love him or hate him, he can put the ball in the basket.

[Ccwatercraft]

Well, there is logic and emotion. The logical thing at this point is for both sides to mend fences and for Zach to come back and play his best. Its win-win.

It seems that both sides dislike each other so much that they just want the relationship over. Its emotional. I think that is where the bad rumors come from. I get it from Zach's perspective but management shouldn't let emotion cloud their judgment.

I'd also note, what rumors has anyone heard about the Bulls attaching an asset to get off of Zach? There was some talk which seemed like speculation that we could have used Caruso to get off Zach (but didn't).

I think this is also a bit of conflating reporting issue. I've heard national analysts say that teams want an asset to take on Zach. I haven't seen anything where the Bulls tried to attach an asset and the team said no or any reports showing what we'd attach with Zach to get off his deal.

I think people are conflating what teams want vs what we are willing to do. At this specific moment in time, it feels to me like management has positioned themselves to try and mend fences with Zach. They're certainly shopping him hard, but they haven't made a trade where they pay to get rid of him, and I haven't heard of us even being close to such a trade.

Then you sit down and have a talk with him.

Both parties need to communicate and be honest. That is the only way to move forward.

Their behavior only makes matters worst. This only makes things more toxic.

Liking someone is not necessary to work with them, but respecting each other is.

The respect I am talking about is airing the issues and at least understanding the others point of view.

Plus the lost of DeMar might help. If we run and rebound better as a team. Especially in the forward position.

I tend to agree, some fans seem to want to approach it like the relationshipadvice sub on reddit, "he's toxic, cut off communication, move and block his phone!" And that's just totally impractical, not to mention a net negative because like it or not, it seems like having a good relationship with Klutch seems important moving forward.

I tend to take most of the "articles" to be just click fodder about potential trades anyway, but some of these suggestions out there are just horrible.

[dougthonus]

I find it very hard to believe the click bait toxicity narratives about the relationship between Zach's "camp" and the team for these reasons:

1. The Bulls org has now given Zach Lavine two large contract extensions that were questionable, including one for the max by the current management. Since then he's mostly played very well when healthy, and his health issues have not been catastrophic or chronic. So easy to believe they still see significant on court potential value in him.
2. The Bulls just signed another Klutch player to a 3 year deal.
3. The Bulls have been extremely accommodating of another large contract Klutch guy in Lonzo Ball.

Not saying there isn't any beef, especially between Zach and Billy, I just think it's likely overstated by people who need to phrase things in a certain way to sell ads.

I think the plugged in people aren't really suggesting there is massive beef either. KC Johnson has said all along that Zach has remained professional with the org at every turn and thinks there is a path to reconciliation where even if both sides don't view it as ideal that everyone is going to show up and do their thing.

Klutch came out in an interview and asserted the same thing, that if it doesn't work out, Zach is going to show up and remain professional.

[Dan Z]

I don't think this means much, but here you go:

https://dawindycity.com/posts/zach-lavine-makes-cryptic-post-amid-bulls-trade-rumors-01j2ehpw9vtv

[Rose2Boozer]

The Pelicans are my last hope for trading Zach Lavine. A three team deal involving the Spurs and Brandon Ingram could finally bring closure to the Lavine dilemma.

[Indomitable]

I find it very hard to believe the click bait toxicity narratives about the relationship between Zach's "camp" and the team for these reasons:

1. The Bulls org has now given Zach Lavine two large contract extensions that were questionable, including one for the max by the current management. Since then he's mostly played very well when healthy, and his health issues have not been catastrophic or chronic. So easy to believe they still see significant on court potential value in him.
2. The Bulls just signed another Klutch player to a 3 year deal.
3. The Bulls have been extremely accommodating of another large contract Klutch guy in Lonzo Ball.

Not saying there isn't any beef, especially between Zach and Billy, I just think it's likely overstated by people who need to phrase things in a certain way to sell ads.

The Bulls matched his contracted.

[Indomitable]

I'd also note, what rumors has anyone heard about the Bulls attaching an asset to get off of Zach? There was some talk which seemed like speculation that we could have used Caruso to get off Zach (but didn't).

I think this is also a bit of conflating reporting issue. I've heard national analysts say that teams want an asset to take on Zach. I haven't seen anything where the Bulls tried to attach an asset and the team said no or any reports showing what we'd attach with Zach to get off his deal.

I think people are conflating what teams want vs what we are willing to do. At this specific moment in time, it feels to me like management has positioned themselves to try and mend fences with Zach. They're certainly shopping him hard, but they haven't made a trade where they pay to get rid of him, and I haven't heard of us even being close to such a trade.

Then you sit down and have a talk with him.

Both parties need to communicate and be honest. That is the only way to move forward.

Their behavior only makes matters worst. This only makes things more toxic.

Liking someone is not necessary to work with them, but respecting each other is.

The respect I am talking about is airing the issues and at least understanding the others point of view.

Plus the lost of DeMar might help. If we run and rebound better as a team. Especially in the forward position.

I tend to agree, some fans seem to want to approach it like the relationshipadvice sub on reddit, "he's toxic, cut off communication, move and block his phone!" And that's just totally impractical, not to mention a net negative because like it or not, it seems like having a good relationship with Klutch seems important moving forward.

I tend to take most of the "articles" to be just click fodder about potential trades anyway, but some of these suggestions out there are just horrible.

That is dating in this toxic environment.

I am discussing actual adult behavior and business interaction. When you dealing in high stakes or a dangerous situation. You need to be adults and respect each other enough to be honest.

[Indomitable]

The Pelicans are my last hope for trading Zach Lavine. A three team deal involving the Spurs and Brandon Ingram could finally bring closure to the Lavine dilemma.

Disappointment is life.

[Muzbar]

The Pelicans are my last hope for trading Zach Lavine. A three team deal involving the Spurs and Brandon Ingram could finally bring closure to the Lavine dilemma.

The Pels have CJ, why would they want LaVine?

[boundbymusic]

I assume the new TV deal means a pretty significant increase in the salary cap which should make Lavine’s contract more palatable. Yea? (Obviously not this coming season but the following)