Derrick Rose Thread #13 - Acceptance

[Wingy]

AP, really? There are plenty of legit criticisms for Rose, but now too many people act like AP is the new norm when he's in fact a absolutely extraordinary freak show.

[DaMayor73]

Rose's ACL may be healed, but until he mentally can get to the point where he can function on the court during NBA games, he is not fully healed. Everyone is discounting the mental aspect of his recovery. Why? Every NBA player, every teammate, every analyst approves of his choice to sit out. Jerry Reinsdorf approves. The only people not approving (and disparaging Rose) are folks on this board and other fans. Again, I choose to ride with folks that have played the game and coached the game, not RealGM. If Rose needs until next season, fine. Get your body and mind right and seek and destroy all comers.

You really think he's that weak minded? That's like scary weak. Damn.

Weakminded, huh? So ill-informed......

[kyrv]

Why would we care about the next 10. He is only under contract for 4 more years after this year. Beyond that, I guarantee you that he is not an elite player worth building a team around at age 34.

By not playing this year, Rose:
- Gives up 20% of the playoff runs under his current deal, which might be his last one in Chicago.
- Makes it difficult for Chicago to plan for next year
- Delays getting over the mental hurdle until next year
- Loses a year of playoff experience, or should I say, another year
There are a whole lot of negatives for Rose not playing this year. Again, I have no idea what is going on with Rose. If he really is in bad shape and his leg could fall off at any minute, I can see why waiting would be good for him. Of course, if that's true he shouldn't be practicing and we should really worry about him ever recovering.

I can't overstate this, the way things have turned out, this injury is going to throw 3 years of Derrick's career in the toilet. Last year, this year and next year.

All your and Duck, and AshleyLarry, well a lot of people, have been really spot on.

'Defending' Rose by stating he's either incredibly weak willed or scared, or arguing he can't make up his own mind, none of those are particularly good for Rose, or the Bulls.

Duck said a long time ago, if Rose misses the entire season, the 'why' matters less than the 'did'.

None of the explanations or 'defenses' negate what you have outlined. Being 'fine' with Rose not playing, does not negate what you have written. Must read read material.

This situation is just plain not good.

[whodey]

And if anyone should be blamed for the potential repeater tax, it's the Bulls mgmt. They could have tried to get out of it this year but instead kept Hamilton around.

[kyrv]

OK, so in 4 days are you going to come back here and change your opinion?

His surgery was May 12, 2012. So his one year would be up in about 3 weeks. Would you really want him coming back against the Heat, if the Bulls make it that far? I sure wouldn't.

I'll ask his question again, are you going to change your mind when the 12 month expires?

I posted this *before* the playoffs, people using that he hasn't played as a reason not not play, is hilarious. But no, homie don't play that game.

I'll also answer your question, I want Rose to play because he is healthy enough to do so. Any real games he plays, for his rehab, are better than not playing. Screw his rust imo, he needs to rehab.

[Ice the knees]

Rose's ACL may be healed, but until he mentally can get to the point where he can function on the court during NBA games, he is not fully healed. Everyone is discounting the mental aspect of his recovery. Why? Every NBA player, every teammate, every analyst approves of his choice to sit out. Jerry Reinsdorf approves. The only people not approving (and disparaging Rose) are folks on this board and other fans. Again, I choose to ride with folks that have played the game and coached the game, not RealGM. If Rose needs until next season, fine. Get your body and mind right and seek and destroy all comers.

You really think he's that weak minded? That's like scary weak. Damn.

What are you talking about? It happens to everyone. Has nothing to do with being weak minded. It's having a sound mind and body because both are equally important.

[kyrv]

AP, really? There are plenty of legit criticisms for Rose, but now too many people act like AP is the new norm when he's in fact a absolutely extraordinary freak show.

Rose's rehab is the longest this century.

I think it begs the question, 'why?'.

[whodey]

The best part of this madness is the conspiracy theorists. If there really was an issue between mgmt and Rose, I'm sure he wouldn't be at every practice, every warmup, and on the bench during the playoffs. His intensity on that bench was just an awesome sight in my opinion last game.

[JeremyB0001]

I also don't understand the rhetoric around what if he's not ready next year? If that's the case, I'll start questioning him as well as the knee. I've said it over and over, he got hurt at the wrong time, and him sitting out has been a possibility since the timeframe was announced last May.

I bring out the "What if he doesn't return next year?" and "What if he doesn't return in 10 years?" arguments, because people are using logic that would justify Derrick declining to return not only now, but at any time in the future. "Derrick shouldn't come back until he feels ready" is an argument that will have equal force if Derrick refuses to return two years from now. When someone uses that sort of argument, I think it's important to ask "When is it no longer okay for Derrick to sit out and why?"

If your personal position is that it's okay for Derrick to sit until 12 months passes, because the initial timeline was eight (nine?) to 12 months, then that gets into an entire discussion about the timeline. To this day, it's entirely unclear why that timeline was set when the accepted timeline for ACL recovery is 6 to 9 months (immediately after Iman Shumpert went down, the Knicks announced a six-to-eight-month timeline). Personally, I think it was a PR strategy employed by the Bulls front office that went horribly wrong. It's also possible that Team Derrick lobbied for that timeline so that they could hide behind it right about now. One of the least likely explanations seems to be that anyone knowledgable about this situation actually thought there was a good chance that Derrick would need 12 months before he was ready to play in games. I've yet to hear anyone with expertise about ACL injuries explain why that might be the case.

[kyrv]

Rose's ACL may be healed, but until he mentally can get to the point where he can function on the court during NBA games, he is not fully healed. Everyone is discounting the mental aspect of his recovery. Why? Every NBA player, every teammate, every analyst approves of his choice to sit out. Jerry Reinsdorf approves. The only people not approving (and disparaging Rose) are folks on this board and other fans. Again, I choose to ride with folks that have played the game and coached the game, not RealGM. If Rose needs until next season, fine. Get your body and mind right and seek and destroy all comers.

You really think he's that weak minded? That's like scary weak. Damn.

What are you talking about? It happens to everyone. Has nothing to do with being weak minded. It's having a sound mind and body because both are equally important.

Why is Rose taking longer than any other athlete this century?

And how do you explain the December 5 article? Nobody is answer this or I keep missing it, actually trying to read the whole thread since his future is so important, but apologies if I'm missing people answering this question. As someone driving the "it's mental" bus for a long long time, I truly would like to hear a good explanation. My theory, while plausible, had a much larger gaping hole than the Duck/Re theory, which begs some questions but still, really, now that they've really laid it out, basically explains everything. The mental thing and the "he's still injured" angles have gaping holes.

[whodey]

AP, really? There are plenty of legit criticisms for Rose, but now too many people act like AP is the new norm when he's in fact a absolutely extraordinary freak show.

Rose's rehab is the longest this century.

I think it begs the question, 'why?'.

Because he doesn't want to be the next Penny Hardaway. Because he's playing it safe. Because he's 24. Because he's not mentally prepared at this point late in the season. Because he's Derrick F'n Rose.

[whodey]

I also don't understand the rhetoric around what if he's not ready next year? If that's the case, I'll start questioning him as well as the knee. I've said it over and over, he got hurt at the wrong time, and him sitting out has been a possibility since the timeframe was announced last May.

I bring out the "What if he doesn't return next year?" and "What if he doesn't return in 10 years?" arguments, because people are using logic that would justify Derrick declining to return not only now, but at any time in the future. "Derrick shouldn't come back until he feels ready" is an argument that will have equal force if Derrick refuses to return two years from now. When someone uses that sort of argument, I think it's important to ask "When is it no longer okay for Derrick to sit out and why?"

If your personal position is that it's okay for Derrick to sit until 12 months passes, because the initial timeline was eight (nine?) to 12 months, then that gets into an entire discussion about the timeline. To this day, it's entirely unclear why that timeline was set when the accepted timeline for ACL recovery is 6 to 9 months (immediately after Iman Shumpert went down, the Knicks announced a six-to-eight-month timeline). Personally, I think it was a PR strategy employed by the Bulls front office that went horribly wrong. It's also possible that Team Derrick lobbied for that timeline so that they could hide behind it right about now. One of the least likely explanations seems to be that anyone knowledgable about this situation actually thought there was a good chance that Derrick would need 12 months before he was ready to play in games. I've yet to hear anyone with expertise about ACL injuries explain why that might be the case.

If he's not ready for game 1 next year, I have a problem. Till then, I'm defending the best thing to happen to Chicago basketball since 1998.

[AAU Teammate]

AP, really? There are plenty of legit criticisms for Rose, but now too many people act like AP is the new norm when he's in fact a absolutely extraordinary freak show.

Rose's rehab is the longest this century.

I think it begs the question, 'why?'.

It begs the question 'why' - but also some people here are going far, far beyond 'why'

I often ask 'why' in my life, and then have to calm down and accept it when I dont get an answer. But of course, I realize, this board is not for real life behavior, necessarily.

If someone told me two years ago-- the first ACL tear of a superstar player will go 12 months or more...and be the longest ACL rehab we've seen.......I honestly would've been like, OK, guess that makes sense. Superstars are prized possessions.

[kyrv]

I also don't understand the rhetoric around what if he's not ready next year? If that's the case, I'll start questioning him as well as the knee. I've said it over and over, he got hurt at the wrong time, and him sitting out has been a possibility since the timeframe was announced last May.

I bring out the "What if he doesn't return next year?" and "What if he doesn't return in 10 years?" arguments, because people are using logic that would justify Derrick declining to return not only now, but at any time in the future. "Derrick shouldn't come back until he feels ready" is an argument that will have equal force if Derrick refuses to return two years from now. When someone uses that sort of argument, I think it's important to ask "When is it no longer okay for Derrick to sit out and why?"

If your personal position is that it's okay for Derrick to sit until 12 months passes, because the initial timeline was eight (nine?) to 12 months, then that gets into an entire discussion about the timeline. To this day, it's entirely unclear why that timeline was set when the accepted timeline for ACL recovery is 6 to 9 months (immediately after Iman Shumpert went down, the Knicks announced a six-to-eight-month timeline). Personally, I think it was a PR strategy employed by the Bulls front office that went horribly wrong. It's also possible that Team Derrick lobbied for that timeline so that they could hide behind it right about now. One of the least likely explanations seems to be that anyone knowledgable about this situation actually thought there was a good chance that Derrick would need 12 months before he was ready to play in games. I've yet to hear anyone with expertise about ACL injuries explain why that might be the case.

Thank you, great post.

People who are expecting him back next season at the start, are just setting a different arbitrary time table than anyone else.

One can't both be fine with Rose not playing until he feels ready, then turn around and state that this date will be game one of next season. Doesn't jive.

I think the Bulls, like all of us, felt that Rose would try to rush back and this was the concern. Laughable now, but nobody imagined he would be just not be playing despite being healthy. However the conservative statements are being used by many to shield Derrick.

The normal return for ACL is NOT 12 months. The normal return for ACL after being cleared medically is NOT over two months.

So...wtf is wrong? As Fish outlined, it's just not good in any case.

[LCMJ]

The best part of this madness is the conspiracy theorists. If there really was an issue between mgmt and Rose, I'm sure he wouldn't be at every practice, every warmup, and on the bench during the playoffs. His intensity on that bench was just an awesome sight in my opinion last game.

idk a few months ago Taj Gibson's brother said "people don't even know the half, though" regarding the Rose situation. Something is going on in the organization, but theyre just keeping it behind closed doors.

[kyrv]

AP, really? There are plenty of legit criticisms for Rose, but now too many people act like AP is the new norm when he's in fact a absolutely extraordinary freak show.

Rose's rehab is the longest this century.

I think it begs the question, 'why?'.

It begs the question 'why' - but also some people here are going far, far beyond 'why'

I often ask 'why' in my life, and then have to calm down and accept it when I dont get an answer. But of course, I realize, this board is not for real life behavior, necessarily.

If someone told me two years ago-- the first ACL tear of a superstar player will go 12 months or more...and be the longest ACL rehab we've seen.......I honestly would've been like, OK, guess that makes sense. Superstars are prized possessions.

Every national person I've heard, granted it's not hundreds, but all those not familiar, knowing what they know of Rose, think something went wrong, there is some setback. Nobody is really arguing that this is a normal rehab with nothing to see here.

The 12 month thing is a red herring by the way. It was a bad estimate done long ago. The 12 month was bad when it was first used, but once he was medically cleared, downright useless.

Analogy: Your cousin is driving in from out of town, he's leaving tonight and it will take him 1 to 3 weeks. After 1 week he's in his car parked down the street, not there yet. Do you say, well it hasn't been 3 weeks, so this is normal? Most people would not. The new information that he is in town replaces the old estimate of 3 weeks.

[ryannik09]

AP, really? There are plenty of legit criticisms for Rose, but now too many people act like AP is the new norm when he's in fact a absolutely extraordinary freak show.

Rose's rehab is the longest this century.

I think it begs the question, 'why?'.

Because he doesn't want to be the next Penny Hardaway. Because he's playing it safe. Because he's 24. Because he's not mentally prepared at this point late in the season. Because he's Derrick F'n Rose.

Penny Hardaway's knee injury is irrelevant. He had a degenerative cartilage condition similar to what ended the career of Brandon Roy. I know Wilbon told everyone that Penny, and Arenas had similar injuries to Rose but unfortunately Wilbon just spews crap that isnt true.

Arenas and Penny's cartilage issues are/were much more severe than ACL tear. If you dont have cartilage in your knee you are essentially useless on a basketball court and it destroys your athleticism. It results in bone on bone rubbing which is incredibly painful and causes all sorts of issues, case in point Brandon Roy.

As you can see by reading the linked article, the accurate comparison for Penny is Brandon Roy.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball- ... 48906.html

[JeremyB0001]

You can't compare Jamal Crawford to Rose. You definitely can't compare AP to Rose. Everyone heals differently, mentally and physically. You just can't. I know human nature being what it is, we would all like to use anecdotal evidence to try to say Rose is slacking. But again, we shouldn't. Why? Because he knows his physical and mental state. And he is not ready to play.

AP, really? There are plenty of legit criticisms for Rose, but now too many people act like AP is the new norm when he's in fact a absolutely extraordinary freak show.

Derrick is not ready to come back until he feels ready. Derrick's recovery cannot be compared to any other of the hundreds (thousands?) of pro athletes with ACL tears, including a superstar like Adrian Peterson. I guess I'll just ask one more time, doesn't this justify Derrick sitting to start next season and the season after that and the season after that? He might not feel ready then. The comparisons to other ACL recoveries will still be worthless. What will have changed?

[kyrv]

You can't compare Jamal Crawford to Rose. You definitely can't compare AP to Rose. Everyone heals differently, mentally and physically. You just can't. I know human nature being what it is, we would all like to use anecdotal evidence to try to say Rose is slacking. But again, we shouldn't. Why? Because he knows his physical and mental state. And he is not ready to play.

AP, really? There are plenty of legit criticisms for Rose, but now too many people act like AP is the new norm when he's in fact a absolutely extraordinary freak show.

Derrick is not ready to come back until he feels ready. Derrick's recovery cannot be compared to any other of the hundreds (thousands?) of pro athletes with ACL tears, including a superstar like Adrian Peterson. I guess I'll just ask one more time, doesn't this justify Derrick sitting to start next season and the season after that and the season after that? He might not feel ready then. The comparisons to other ACL recoveries will still be worthless. What will have changed?

Nothing will have changed.

And yes it justifies him sitting out until he's ready. He's Derrick f'n Rose.

[Wingy]

AP, really? There are plenty of legit criticisms for Rose, but now too many people act like AP is the new norm when he's in fact a absolutely extraordinary freak show.

Rose's rehab is the longest this century.

I think it begs the question, 'why?'.

Cool, that's legit. But I'm having trouble seeing how that relates to my point.