Around The NBA: 2019-20 RESTART

[kodo]

Siakam giving the ball to Boston every time he tried to make an iso play was pretty rough. I thought BOS's 23 fast break points in a low scoring game was the big difference, TOR only had 10 they had to grind it out in the half court.

Team w/ the best player advanced as they should, great fight by Toronto before they went down however.

[Chi town]

Siakam giving the ball to Boston every time he tried to make an iso play was pretty rough. I thought BOS's 23 fast break points in a low scoring game was the big difference, TOR only had 10 they had to grind it out in the half court.

Team w/ the best player advanced as they should, great fight by Toronto before they went down however.

Siakam couldn’t create. Shows again how wings that can create are premium. Tatum and Brown will be winning for a long time.

[Southpaw]

Pascal is going to take a lot of lumps in the media for a while.

He is going to have to really prove himself in the playoffs next year.

Agreed but Giannis will get the brunt of it this year. They had a worse showing and higher expectation. I never really saw him as a real number 1 option. Maybe a 1b at best but they'd need a true number 1 a la Kawhi to be really successful.

Today's game showed again how important elite 2-way wings are. Tatum and Brown has been great.

[R3AL1TY]

Pascal is going to take a lot of lumps in the media for a while.

He is going to have to really prove himself in the playoffs next year.

Yep, I can see him getting bashed for not being "the man" like Kawhi for a while, but that comes with the territory. He just gotta work on his half court/off the bounce game more. But Toronto is just one star away like most years from winning the chip or being in the Finals.

The thing is I never thought he was the man. Pascal can be an excellent #2 like he was with Kawhi. But if they dont get a true #1, they will continue to have good regular season but I think others will leap them next year. It can be argued Bucks, Nets, Heat and Celtics can be a better team.

Also goes to show you how things can change so fast. Nurse and Siakim are like legends a year ago. Now the Raptors are saying how trash Nurse and Siakim are lol

I agree. Siakam's ceiling is being a #2 option, but Raptors' fan and critics should already know that Nick Nurse inherited a good team team from another coach of the year winner (Dwayne Casey) + rented a superstar (Kawhi).

[kodo]

Lowry, Siakam making $30M+ and FVV making $25M+ for the future will be a very interesting core. They can certainly get it done in the regular season, but doesn't leave TOR with a lot of options for improvement.

[dice]

I wouldn't say Westbrook is untradeable. HOU does best with stocked wings and a secondary pass-PG. Russ I think can bring an edge to the up-and-coming younger teams, who also don't have anybody better to spend their cap space on.

PHX #10, Oubre & Rubio

Or maybe DEN #22 (return to HOU), Harris, Barton, Morris

Westbrook is definitely one of the most untradeable guys in the league. That contract is horrendous and he is getting very bad, very quickly. He's aging about as gracefully as Ben Wallace.

He is a straight up negative asset now and he's only going to keep declining. I've defended Morey on here before, but I can't defend that trade in any way. It looked pretty bad at the time, and it is only looking worse now. I think I'd rather have Tobias Harris than him. Maybe that's a trade Morey can make.

That's actually probably something both sides would do.

the sixers certainly don't need another guard who can't shoot

[MrFortune3]

You mean the same Jimmy that most claimed was not a superstar

Trying to think where I'd place Jimmy in all the players in the league, and I think he's around #10, I don't know if that makes him a superstar, but he's definitely in that mix.

not a good leader

This still seems kind of true. I mean, he finally found a team that he gets a long with, but that doesn't make him a good leader. I'm not sure how relevant this is really though, at least as an argument against him. He obviously isn't an unworkable cancer or anything (which I think is really your point). Under the right circumstances he can be a good leader, but he's definitely not a guy you drop in and rises all boats (a good leader would do that).

couldn't be the #1 on a championship contender

This argument against Jimmy is poor, because it fails all but four or five guys in the league in most years and its made to complain about really great players.

While the argument isn't explicitly true, Jimmy is probably better than the #1 on the 2004 Pistons, what is the last team that had a best player that was worse than Jimmy that won the title? Maybe 07/08 Celtics (highly debatable) otherwise the Pistons. Probably 90%+ of the years the champion has a player better than Jimmy on it. The years that isn't true, they have multiple (at least 3) players nearly as Jimmy on it.

Again, not a valid argument to make against a player almost ever though. Not unless you are trading him for a player that's better than him.

The Heat, in the weak ass East conference, were on a 49 win pace this season. They may put together an absolutely magical playoff run, but this is a team that was a half notch ahead of a treadmill team in the regular season and not one you would have ever said "championship contender" about prior to the playoffs. I'm not really convinced they're a real championship contender either. I think they'd never make it out of the 2nd round in the West. I'm actively pulling for them to win it all, but it'd be perhaps the flukiest title ever if they did.

would be overpaid once extended and we would be in treadmill hell with?

Worth noting the Bulls would have likely had to lock him up on a super max for 5 years instead of a regular max for 4 and that statement still would likely be true. He also demanded a trade from Philly and Minnesota and may have done so with us if he didn't see enough immediate progress (which we had no way to make). Again, not necessarily an argument against him. We are on a path to be below a treadmill team now.

If the Bulls were able to guy Nunn, Robinson,and Herro off the scrap heap like the Heat, they'd have probably had a good team this year too, so our failure in building around a guy like Jimmy was really our failure to get good enough players with our scrap assets like Miami has recently done.

Supermax is really a curse for the NBA, and they should think about removing it, but the NBA contract situation is full of idiosyncrasies that should be removed.

My point in making that post was that few appreciated Jimmy when he was here and tried to dog him on the way out, even fewer appreciate Zach and keep wanting him traded.

It's silly as hell, Zach is a good player who gets better every year. We can build around him and win with the right coaching hire.

[Andi Obst]

Also goes to show you how things can change so fast. Nurse and Siakim are like legends a year ago. Now the Raptors are saying how trash Nurse and Siakim are lol

Wait what, there are actually people who call Nurse trash for this? Like seriously?

Edit: Just checked out the Raps board. Oh boy, they actually are...

[Andi Obst]

Lowry, Siakam making $30M+ and FVV making $25M+ for the future will be a very interesting core. They can certainly get it done in the regular season, but doesn't leave TOR with a lot of options for improvement.

Only Siakam is locked in long-term for now. Lowry is only under contract through next season and I'm not convinced the Raptors are willing to do whatever it takes to keep FVV, especially with the 2021 free agency in mind.

[Dresden]

Lowry, Siakam making $30M+ and FVV making $25M+ for the future will be a very interesting core. They can certainly get it done in the regular season, but doesn't leave TOR with a lot of options for improvement.

Only Siakam is locked in long-term for now. Lowry is only under contract through next season and I'm not convinced the Raptors are willing to do whatever it takes to keep FVV, especially with the 2021 free agency in mind.

I wasn't very impressed with FVV. He did shoot 4/9 from deep tonight, but that last possession for TOR showed his shortcomings, when he couldn't create a good look for himself, nor did he have the awareness or creativity to create something for someone else. It reminded me of the Finals when CLE beat GS, and Steph Curry tried to hit these long 3 bombs at the end of the game, without even looking to pass to anyone else. And FVV ended up getting off a horrible shot, with the series on the line. Barkely rightly took him to task for that, calling it "just an awful possession".

It's really amazing TOR won 3 games in that series, and was within 2 points right at the end of game 7. BOS seems so much more talented. Kyle Lowry was the whole TOR team- when he fouled out, I knew their chances were sunk.

Siakam was dog meat that whole series. Barkley observed that he didn't even have one good game the whole series. Not even one.

[Andi Obst]

It's really amazing TOR won 3 games in that series, and was within 2 points right at the end of game 7. BOS seems so much more talented.

Agree 100%. It tells you a lot about the quality and the flexibility of Toronto's defense, which allowed them to keep the games (except for 1 & 5) close enough for them to be in position to win them in the end. Their offense wasn't great all series, it was really bad a lot of the time, yet they won 3 games when they really should have 1 at best from a pure talent standpoint IMO. Easy to say as a neutral observer, but Raptors fans should not be mad about this.

[MrFortune3]

Siakim will be fine. It was his first year being the unquestioned #1 option and Toronto as a team relies on stellar play from everyone as a unit. Similar to the Heat.

[Ice Man]

Siakam couldn’t create. Shows again how wings that can create are premium. Tatum and Brown will be winning for a long time.

Create and defend. The best player on all four likely Conference Finalists is a two-way wing. So also is the second best player on the Clippers and the third and fourth best player (counting Smart) on the Celtics.

Building a team around a two-way wing isn't the only path to success, but it's the best path. Whenever the Bulls land another one, they damn well had better keep him around.

[FriedRise]

Read on Twitter

[kodo]

I noted it's easier to disrupt guys catch & shoot guys like Jaylen Brown vs a "chucker" like Tatum. Jaylen had good PPG but didn't shoot well, 42% and 28%. He normally boosts his 3P% by shooting corner 3s, where he was 48% in the reguar season. TOR did a good job of hassling him there forcing him to dribble & shoot or otherwise not get a simple corner C&S. For the playoffs Brown shot only 25% on corner 3s.

TOR also hassled Tatum, but Tatum on the initial close out could side step / stepback and still hit the 3. Tatum doesn't shoot assisted 3s that much, he's only 54% assisted. He creates his own shot to a large degree. He ended up shooting 39.5% from 3 this series.

A lot of players can learn to hit a standstill, C&S shot but these guys whose games naturally incorporate shots off stepbacks, sidesteps, off the P&R, etc.. are the ones that will still produce against playoff defenses. This is the kind of player I'd prefer to draft over someone that's just a good c&s shooter.

[MGB8]

Read on Twitter

Whoa. Wonder where he is going? Money would def make a play. Clipps might. To NY with Leon Rose? To Golden State? Not sure if Miami has the pieces. OKC does, but would he go there?

I’m sure the Bulls would happily give #4, 2022 unprotected first, 2024 unprotected first, LaVine, Lauri, WCJ, and Thad....

[Dresden]

Siakim will be fine. It was his first year being the unquestioned #1 option and Toronto as a team relies on stellar play from everyone as a unit. Similar to the Heat.

I don't know what would lead you to believe this, based on what he did in this series. He couldn't shoot from the field, he had trouble posting up shorter players, he did not pass the ball well, and he turned it over a lot. Hard to see him improving in all those areas.

[Southpaw]

Also goes to show you how things can change so fast. Nurse and Siakim are like legends a year ago. Now the Raptors are saying how trash Nurse and Siakim are lol

Wait what, there are actually people who call Nurse trash for this? Like seriously?

Edit: Just checked out the Raps board. Oh boy, they actually are...

Wow that's crazy, I know Nurse had some mistakes this series but overall the team did well, specially if you consider that Siakam has played terribly all series. I'd welcome Nurse here all anytime.

As for Giannis and his twitter issue, I don't think it really means anything but it's terrible timing imo. I'd gladly trade away our farm for Giannis.

[Ice Man]

I noted it's easier to disrupt guys catch & shoot guys like Jaylen Brown vs a "chucker" like Tatum.

For sure. See the playoff totals for Korver, Kyle or (this year) Robinson, Duncan. Creators become more important in the playoffs. There just aren't that many guys in the league who can reliably create when facing playoff defenses. Even Kemba failed at the task against Toronto, and he's an All Star.

[DASMACKDOWN]

Also goes to show you how things can change so fast. Nurse and Siakim are like legends a year ago. Now the Raptors are saying how trash Nurse and Siakim are lol

Wait what, there are actually people who call Nurse trash for this? Like seriously?

Edit: Just checked out the Raps board. Oh boy, they actually are...

Its not all fair but thats the level of accountability of the highest paid player and coach.

What I dont like with fandom though, is this will most likely fester. Its not going to matter what Pascal does next season. People wont really care. Its all about what happens in the playoffs. And thats the part that may not be fair.

If he shows anything close to how he looked against the Celtics again , people will serious look to move him.

Right now people are just in their feelings and are overreacting. They will calm down, but they wont forget.