2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2

[PlayerUp]

If Edwards slips (growing murmurs about this), does the board want the Bulls to take him?

Yes. Just based on pure upside he is the #1 ceiling prospect in this draft.

[sco]

If Edwards slips (growing murmurs about this), does the board want the Bulls to take him?

If AKME are convinced that Edwards has true all star potential, I'd have no problem.

[CjayC]

If Edwards slips (growing murmurs about this), does the board want the Bulls to take him?

At #4, he has tremendous value, so it's a no brainer for me.

I'm still convinced that 1-3, will be some combination of Edwards, Avdija, Ball though, assuming no one makes any trades. There's no reason the Wolves and Warriors shouldn't float fake news out there to see what someone is possibly willing to give up if their guy is on the board.

[PlayerUp]

If you're making the case that Coby will be outplayed by Hayes, and lose his starting spot, that's more reason to draft Hayes. I don't understand the logic of staying away from a player because he might be better than the current player on your roster. That's absurd.

If Coby plays like Feb-March Coby and Hayes still outbeats him, then 100% draft Hayes.

[23-7]

Just uploaded my newest breakdown on one of my favorite second round sleepers, Utah State's Sam Merrill. Now I'm not saying by any means that Merrill is going to be anywhere near Luka, but stylistically watching Merrill play in college was like watching Luka. Think he’d be a great get with our second pick given his skillset and our roster.

Watch on YouTube

He's also 45 years old

So was Monte Morris.

Nope: http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=sam-merrill--taj-gibson--monte-morris

[TheSuzerain]

If you're making the case that Coby will be outplayed by Hayes, and lose his starting spot, that's more reason to draft Hayes. I don't understand the logic of staying away from a player because he might be better than the current player on your roster. That's absurd.

If Coby plays like Feb-March Coby and Hayes still outbeats him, then 100% draft Hayes.

Do people realize that Feb - March Coby and Zach Lavine can not reasonably co-exist together?

For the love of god, we need some passing out of our backcourt.

[Andi Obst]

If Edwards slips (growing murmurs about this), does the board want the Bulls to take him?

I wouldn't take Edwards over Hayes, but I know I'm in the minority on that. Definitely wouldn't hate drafting Edwards, especially in this draft, but I have some concerns for sure.

[MGB8]

If you're making the case that Coby will be outplayed by Hayes, and lose his starting spot, that's more reason to draft Hayes. I don't understand the logic of staying away from a player because he might be better than the current player on your roster. That's absurd.

If Coby plays like Feb-March Coby and Hayes still outbeats him, then 100% draft Hayes.

Do people realize that Feb - March Coby and Zach Lavine can not reasonably co-exist together?

For the love of god, we need some passing out of our backcourt.

Feb-March Coby - maybe - but I don't think that what a rookie showed in their rookie year, particularly under a coach like Boylen, is all that there is to them.

[MGB8]

If Edwards slips (growing murmurs about this), does the board want the Bulls to take him?

I wouldn't take Edwards over Hayes, but I know I'm in the minority on that. Definitely wouldn't hate drafting Edwards, especially in this draft, but I have some concerns for sure.

I think you would almost have to draft Edwards - but I also don't think there's much real chance that he falls.

As many have noted, the fact that a player may or may not fit with the current roster composition is more of a question of a "tie-breaker" between similarly evaluated players, as opposed to a reason not to take a materially higher level talent.

Edwards likely has the highest talent level in the draft - you would compare him to Victor Oladipo as a mid-sized but powerful SG - but Edwards of course is coming out of freshman year having more production on the offensive end than 'dipo did as a Junior. Probably a better prospect than Donavan Mitchell coming out, too - noting that Mitchell was a worse 3 pt shooter and FT shooter as a frosh than Edwards was this past season, and is smaller.

[Chicagoat]

Edwards has some issues upstairs and you wonder if he actually cares about being a great player. I read some recent reports of that being the case. But if that were to be true then I would want to steer clear from Edwards.

You can have all the talent in the world but not having the drive or passion would mean zilch in the grand scheme of things.

[PlayerUp]

Edwards has some issues upstairs and you wonder if he actually cares about a great player. I read some recent reports of that being the case. But if that were to be true then I would want to steer clear from Edwards.

You can have all the talent in the world but not having the drive or passion would mean zilch in the grand scheme of things.

No doubt. If you have no drive to be the best, you'll never reach your ceiling and eventually teams will move on from you which is why so many high ceiling players retire before 30.

Predraft interviews can answer most of these questions.

[CoreyVillains]

He's also 45 years old

So was Monte Morris.

Nope: http://www.tankathon.com/players/compare?players=sam-merrill--taj-gibson--monte-morris

Which one of those three players was 45?

[MrFortune3]

Nah, even if it's a 3 guard line up it won't hurt Coby. He'll feast off of LaVine and Hayes setting him up for open looks. It would just mean he gets the green light to take a bunch of shots without needing to be the facilitator for the offense.

My issue with the 3 guard lineup is I don't believe the Bulls have the bigs to properly account for that type of set up. Lauri isn't good enough on D to stay on the floor in that scenario so you're potentially talking WCJ and 4 guards which I don't like from a size and rebounding perspective.

Other teams can do it but they're set up to do it.

The 3 guard lineup problem arises from their atrocious defense, not from Lauri. Aside from Hayes pg, that defense on the 2,3 position will be one of the worst being undersized. And they dont even have that much improve play making just instant offense. This is worse version of Sexton, Garland Cavs with no star Drummond im looking at number 1 pick with 20wins.

I predict White will be relegated to a 20min bench role after Billy failing the 3 guard lineup with a 1-9 record and crying over losing his spot to a rookie. Tbh, Donovan isnt that dumb realizing in practice this is one of the worst lineup he has ever coached and beg him to win 6moy only to give Lauri treatment after getting out of control taking 25 shots in Blakeney mode.

If you're making the case that Coby will be outplayed by Hayes, and lose his starting spot, that's more reason to draft Hayes. I don't understand the logic of staying away from a player because he might be better than the current player on your roster. That's absurd.

Roster construction matters in the NBA more than people like to believe. The Sixers went BPA(well, on their board)regardless of position during the process and their roster is flawed. Charlotte has done the same thing and their roster is badly flawed. Phoenix has done it in the past. Orlando is currently still doing it.

At some point you have to draft for position or the glut catches up with you.

[MrFortune3]

If you're making the case that Coby will be outplayed by Hayes, and lose his starting spot, that's more reason to draft Hayes. I don't understand the logic of staying away from a player because he might be better than the current player on your roster. That's absurd.

If Coby plays like Feb-March Coby and Hayes still outbeats him, then 100% draft Hayes.

Do people realize that Feb - March Coby and Zach Lavine can not reasonably co-exist together?

For the love of god, we need some passing out of our backcourt.

That's what point forwards are for. If the backcourt can't pass then the F can.
Realistically though, the issue isn't a lack of passing, the issue is that no other bulls were aggressively looking for their shot. Just standing around waiting for Zach or Coby to create one for them. Well, let me correct myself, no Bulls with a massively bright future with the team were aggressively looking for their shot.

[greenl]

Edwards has some issues upstairs and you wonder if he actually cares about being a great player. I read some recent reports of that being the case. But if that were to be true then I would want to steer clear from Edwards.

You can have all the talent in the world but not having the drive or passion would mean zilch in the grand scheme of things.

I feel like those rumors are floated by teams to try and get others to pass on a player. And it's not terrible for the scouts either - as they can point to his "work ethic" to explain failure instead of their shoddy projection on how good a player will be.

[Jeffster81]

Drafting Hayes will only limit the growth of Coby in my opinion. Like it or not, Coby will be the PG of the team.

A wing is likely the one we need.

BPA and worry about fit later. The only person that stunts Coby White's growth as a player is Coby White. If the Bulls think Hayes is the best player at 4, then you take Hayes.

Yeah you say that so easily but that creates a log jam with 3 starters smaller than 6'5. If Hayes really is that good, White should be traded not to mention the millions of back up guards the Bulls have. OKC 3 guard lineup is terrible bc none of them are good defenders. They will give up 100 plus points every game. This isnt comparable to a situation where you not drafting MJ bc of Drexler.

Drafting Hayes is a lose lose situation. Either he busts or your admitting White was a failure and wasted a number 7 pick to not be worthy of a starter. White has potential as 6th man but who the hell uses a high lottery pick for that?

I did not say I would draft Hayes at four, I said if the Bulls FO feels like he is the bpa at that spot then you take him. Like I said, you worry about the fit later. Even if you do create a logjam, both White and Hayes (because I doubt Lavine gets dealt) would still have value on the trade market to net you something solid in return.

Who says Hayes and White would be starters? I feel confident that one of them would be on the 2nd team, probably Hayes, so that eliminates the "three starters smaller than 6'5" issues.

[MrSparkle]

I'm no draft expert, but anybody else find this Dion Waiters comparison (Edwards) to be completely preposterous?

For one thing, Dion's college build looked more like 6'4 Felicio than Edwards, who looks completely ripped and is a physical marvel. He no doubt has more length, vertical and a quicker step.

I think it's fair to question Edwards' BB IQ, work ethic, fundamentals, awareness. He could end up being like Josh Jackson or McLemore, hyper athletic talents who couldn't buy a minute in the pros.

But if you get him to buy-into developing his defensive potential... I'm seeing more of an Oladipo-type player than Waiters. His build is really good, and his handles and overall scoring ability give him a solid floor.

Timberwolves are trapped in a long cycle of misery. I've got a strong feeling MIN is going to jag this draft one way or another. Either they draft the wrong guy and bust (LaMelo, Wiseman), they trade down for a veteran and go up a measly 10 wins or so with KAT/D'Lo (still an under-30 loser), or they choose the right guy but develop him poorly (KAT and D'Lo show him the ropes of how not to play defense).

They could theoretically go for a big splash trade - #1 & D'Lo for Beal & #9.

They could also consider KAT for Embiid. KAT's perimeter game would be a better fit with the Philly defenders and Simmons' playmaking.

[MrFortune3]

I'm no draft expert, but anybody else find this Dion Waiters comparison (Edwards) to be completely preposterous?

For one thing, Dion's college build looked more like 6'4 Felicio than Edwards, who looks completely ripped and is a physical marvel. He no doubt has more length, vertical and a quicker step.

I think it's fair to question Edwards' BB IQ, work ethic, fundamentals, awareness. He could end up being like Josh Jackson or McLemore, hyper athletic talents who couldn't buy a minute in the pros.

But if you get him to buy-into developing his defensive potential... I'm seeing more of an Oladipo-type player than Waiters. His build is really good, and his handles and overall scoring ability give him a solid floor.

Timberwolves are trapped in a long cycle of misery. I've got a strong feeling MIN is going to jag this draft one way or another. Either they draft the wrong guy and bust (LaMelo, Wiseman), they trade down for a veteran and go up a measly 10 wins or so with KAT/D'Lo (still an under-30 loser), or they choose the right guy but develop him poorly (KAT and D'Lo show him the ropes of how not to play defense).

They could theoretically go for a big splash trade - #1 & D'Lo for Beal & #9.

They could also consider KAT for Embiid. KAT's perimeter game would be a better fit with the Philly defenders and Simmons' playmaking.

You have to remember, some of those comparisons are what the player projected to be from a ceiling perspective.
Waiters was a good talent coming out. He just didn't want it enough.

[MrSparkle]

I'm no draft expert, but anybody else find this Dion Waiters comparison (Edwards) to be completely preposterous?

For one thing, Dion's college build looked more like 6'4 Felicio than Edwards, who looks completely ripped and is a physical marvel. He no doubt has more length, vertical and a quicker step.

I think it's fair to question Edwards' BB IQ, work ethic, fundamentals, awareness. He could end up being like Josh Jackson or McLemore, hyper athletic talents who couldn't buy a minute in the pros.

But if you get him to buy-into developing his defensive potential... I'm seeing more of an Oladipo-type player than Waiters. His build is really good, and his handles and overall scoring ability give him a solid floor.

Timberwolves are trapped in a long cycle of misery. I've got a strong feeling MIN is going to jag this draft one way or another. Either they draft the wrong guy and bust (LaMelo, Wiseman), they trade down for a veteran and go up a measly 10 wins or so with KAT/D'Lo (still an under-30 loser), or they choose the right guy but develop him poorly (KAT and D'Lo show him the ropes of how not to play defense).

They could theoretically go for a big splash trade - #1 & D'Lo for Beal & #9.

They could also consider KAT for Embiid. KAT's perimeter game would be a better fit with the Philly defenders and Simmons' playmaking.

You have to remember, some of those comparisons are what the player projected to be from a ceiling perspective.
Waiters was a good talent coming out. He just didn't want it enough.

Right, but I mean... Waiters didn't even have a high ceiling coming out of college. I remember everyone being majorly surprised with Cavs' reach taking him at #4; he was mocked more in the 7-15 range, and it was a "1-superstar draft", pretty open after AD. He was largely considered a guard tweener with poor SG size.

Edwards has SF size/wingspan... and again, a higher-tier athleticism and build. Bad draft or not, I think it's reasonable to see him as a top-5 talent rather than a mid-lotto pick at worst.

[Chicagoat]

The 3 guard lineup problem arises from their atrocious defense, not from Lauri. Aside from Hayes pg, that defense on the 2,3 position will be one of the worst being undersized. And they dont even have that much improve play making just instant offense. This is worse version of Sexton, Garland Cavs with no star Drummond im looking at number 1 pick with 20wins.

I predict White will be relegated to a 20min bench role after Billy failing the 3 guard lineup with a 1-9 record and crying over losing his spot to a rookie. Tbh, Donovan isnt that dumb realizing in practice this is one of the worst lineup he has ever coached and beg him to win 6moy only to give Lauri treatment after getting out of control taking 25 shots in Blakeney mode.

If you're making the case that Coby will be outplayed by Hayes, and lose his starting spot, that's more reason to draft Hayes. I don't understand the logic of staying away from a player because he might be better than the current player on your roster. That's absurd.

Roster construction matters in the NBA more than people like to believe. The Sixers went BPA(well, on their board)regardless of position during the process and their roster is flawed. Charlotte has done the same thing and their roster is badly flawed. Phoenix has done it in the past. Orlando is currently still doing it.

At some point you have to draft for position or the glut catches up with you.

We have a glut of point guards yes, but almost none of those players are worth a damn in the grand scheme of things. Sato, Archie, Dunn(RFA), being disposable while White being the only PG with some future on this team. Roster construction does matter but when you have good talent that was acquired through the draft. You can just trade the excess position to fill out the roster if need be.

Besides we are still a young team. I wouldn't put too much stock on roster construction. Obviously it still a factor and we would need to fill out the roster so we could have a balanced roster so our young guys would not get restricted in playing like they normally would.

Our biggest issue is talent. if it wasn't we wouldn't have looked bad all of last year. I get injury was also a factor, But when we're all healthy early on in the season we were still losing to the likes of the Knicks, Cavs, and Hornets.