Derrick Rose Thread #13 - Acceptance

[kyrv]

If he's not ready for game 1 next year, I have a problem. Till then, I'm defending the best thing to happen to Chicago basketball since 1998.

First I greatly appreciate your honesty, so thanks.

But, the above comment does not compute with what you said one post above:

Because he doesn't want to be the next Penny Hardaway. Because he's playing it safe. Because he's 24. Because he's not mentally prepared at this point late in the season. Because he's Derrick F'n Rose.

This seems like, you are with missing the season, but you have a drop dead return date, it's just a little later than mine.

Ditto with those that were fine with him missing the regular season, but not the playoffs. Just different arbitrary dates.

You posted like you have an open ended return date, because he's Derrick, but admit that you really don't have an open ended return date.

[kyrv]

AP, really? There are plenty of legit criticisms for Rose, but now too many people act like AP is the new norm when he's in fact a absolutely extraordinary freak show.

Rose's rehab is the longest this century.

I think it begs the question, 'why?'.

Cool, that's legit. But I'm having trouble seeing how that relates to my point.

Probably nothing, but the AP stuff is a strawman, Rose is and has been, for 13 threads, compared to the entire pool of ACL recoveries this century.

That he's not playing, is not normal, is not the norm, and therefore, I and many argues, not really a good thing, or even neutral, for Bulls fans.

[AAU Teammate]

so because we have this entire pool of ACL recoveries to look at, we then ignore the other thing Cole told us: "everyone is different."

And if not medical reasons alone, then the fact that Rose is a superstar made things different.

[moohair88]

will the return of Rose be bigger than MJ's return? Will Drose comeback as #2 and change back to #1 in mid/late season?

[AAU Teammate]

Jason Smith quote: "You just have really heavy, fatigued legs that first year back," Smith said. "I felt like I was coming up short on a lot of my shots. It takes a while to get used to your legs taking that pounding again."

Lets remember scrimmages arent "that pounding." It's short bursts and a lax environment. As Sam tells us...these were practices against the Bulls bench, since most of the best players were taking practice time off due to their own injuries.

And then based on what Derrick is, multiply that Jason Smith "pounding" a few times..based on style of play.

Derrick is the first superstar, and perhaps the first guy who is so reliant on jumpstopping with reckless force.

All that means his rehab can be preset to be something requiring more caution than what we've seen in previous players' rehabs.




Point being: you cant tell me Derrick's rehab was supposed to be A, B, C. You just dont know. You have hints and past things to look at with other players-- but you do not have the facts on this particular instance. You want to, but dont.

[Wingy]

If its the one thing I think it is .... taking a stand against ownership's small market mentality... it doesn't align with a lot of my personal values as an avg Joe...but as a Bulls fan, it sure as heck aligns with my interests and is a good thing.

[Wingy]

I'm willing to believe there's something fishy going on, but also strongly agree with the points AAU is bringing up. I do see Derrick as a unique case, and AAU didn't even bring up our zero creator roster make up

[kyrv]

Jason Smith quote: "You just have really heavy, fatigued legs that first year back," Smith said. "I felt like I was coming up short on a lot of my shots. It takes a while to get used to your legs taking that pounding again."

Lets remember scrimmages arent "that pounding." It's short bursts and a lax environment. As Sam tells us...these were practices against the Bulls bench, since most of the best players were taking practice time off due to their own injuries.

And then based on what Derrick is, multiply that Jason Smith "pounding" a few times..based on style of play.

Derrick is the first superstar, and perhaps the first guy who is so reliant on jumpstopping with reckless force.

All that means his rehab can be preset to be something requiring more caution than what we've seen in previous players' rehabs.




Point being: you cant tell me Derrick's rehab was supposed to be A, B, C. You just dont know. You have hints and past things to look at with other players-- but you do not have the facts on this particular instance. You want to, but dont.

So, your post supports Fish's claim that next year is a lost year also as far as title aspirations.

This really bites. Stupid to pay ext next season, but rather better to wait until the year after, they wouldn't be consecutive and if we are lucky Rose may be back or close to MVP form.

[kulaz3000]

Jason Smith quote: "You just have really heavy, fatigued legs that first year back," Smith said. "I felt like I was coming up short on a lot of my shots. It takes a while to get used to your legs taking that pounding again."

Lets remember scrimmages arent "that pounding." It's short bursts and a lax environment. As Sam tells us...these were practices against the Bulls bench, since most of the best players were taking practice time off due to their own injuries.

And then based on what Derrick is, multiply that Jason Smith "pounding" a few times..based on style of play.

Derrick is the first superstar, and perhaps the first guy who is so reliant on jumpstopping with reckless force.

All that means his rehab can be preset to be something requiring more caution than what we've seen in previous players' rehabs.

But no one is denying that it will be a process for him to get back to his regular standards if he were to play now or if he were to a month ago if had chosen to. The argument is, he has chosen to avoid the natural step of playing and working through the kinks but instead is wanting to do all of that behind the scenes so his struggles are less apparent in the public eye.

I don't see a massive problem with it, as that's his choice, but he is basically drawing out the process by attempting to do the last leg of his rehab in practice sessions over real games where the intensity levels are obviously a lot less and the frequency of full court practice session a lot rarer.

He is playing things extremely safe, whether that's right or wrong, rightly or wrongly, it's ultimately his decision to play things out this way.

[AAU Teammate]

Lets talk about the 'stand against ownership' thing.

Who would think this was a good idea? Reggie was shooting his mouth off, but deep down I dont even think he believes that.

What under contract star would say "I'm going to sit out games and then that's going to cause JR to spend $10M on a player and an additional $10M or more on tax payments"

If someone had that dumb of an idea, they wouldnt tell anyone. Thats why I dont think the Rose camp actually had that idea.

I believe Reggie was just spewing crap off the top of his head without thinking. If you reread the piece containing his quotes, it's about wishing a trade was made. It wasn't an ultimatum(but the flecks of it that sounded that way did in fact get run with....by us....big time)

[AAU Teammate]

Jason Smith quote: "You just have really heavy, fatigued legs that first year back," Smith said. "I felt like I was coming up short on a lot of my shots. It takes a while to get used to your legs taking that pounding again."

Lets remember scrimmages arent "that pounding." It's short bursts and a lax environment. As Sam tells us...these were practices against the Bulls bench, since most of the best players were taking practice time off due to their own injuries.

And then based on what Derrick is, multiply that Jason Smith "pounding" a few times..based on style of play.

Derrick is the first superstar, and perhaps the first guy who is so reliant on jumpstopping with reckless force.

All that means his rehab can be preset to be something requiring more caution than what we've seen in previous players' rehabs.




Point being: you cant tell me Derrick's rehab was supposed to be A, B, C. You just dont know. You have hints and past things to look at with other players-- but you do not have the facts on this particular instance. You want to, but dont.

So, your post supports Fish's claim that next year is a lost year also as far as title aspirations.

This really bites. Stupid to pay ext next season, but rather better to wait until the year after, they wouldn't be consecutive and if we are lucky Rose may be back or close to MVP form.

Well the brightside..."that first year" ends 24 months after injury. So....round one in 2014!

[kyrv]

If its the one thing I think it is .... taking a stand against ownership's small market mentality... it doesn't align with a lot of my personal values as an avg Joe...but as a Bulls fan, it sure as heck aligns with my interests and is a good thing.

Keep this post please. It's unlikely this ends up being a good thing. Odds are really against it.

Threats and ultimatums and being a d-bag are generally the worst forms of negotiation.

[Wingy]

If its the one thing I think it is .... taking a stand against ownership's small market mentality... it doesn't align with a lot of my personal values as an avg Joe...but as a Bulls fan, it sure as heck aligns with my interests and is a good thing.

Keep this post please. It's unlikely this ends up being a good thing. Odds are really against it.

Threats and ultimatums and being a d-bag are generally the worst forms of negotiation.

This was spouted a zillion times in the Reggie thread, by me and others, but why the heck not

How do we know the nice guy/right way behind closed doors wasn't tried repeatedly and fell on deaf ears?

[Bulls423]

The best part of this madness is the conspiracy theorists. If there really was an issue between mgmt and Rose, I'm sure he wouldn't be at every practice, every warmup, and on the bench during the playoffs. His intensity on that bench was just an awesome sight in my opinion last game.

idk a few months ago Taj Gibson's brother said "people don't even know the half, though" regarding the Rose situation. Something is going on in the organization, but theyre just keeping it behind closed doors.

who you talking about, Greg? lol there's nothin going on behind closed doors.

[kyrv]

If its the one thing I think it is .... taking a stand against ownership's small market mentality... it doesn't align with a lot of my personal values as an avg Joe...but as a Bulls fan, it sure as heck aligns with my interests and is a good thing.

Keep this post please. It's unlikely this ends up being a good thing. Odds are really against it.

Threats and ultimatums and being a d-bag are generally the worst forms of negotiation.

This was spouted a zillion times in the Reggie thread, by me and others, but why the heck not

How do we know the nice guy/right way behind closed doors wasn't tried repeatedly and fell on deaf ears?

Does Reinsdorf strike you as someone that will allow his team to be bullied?

The Bulls have had a good team, a really good team, I'm not sure what the Team Thorn whine would be.

If they want another big sexy name, since Reg is maybe from the ESPN/NBA Y2K generation, the best way for that is for Derrick to recruit.

[whodey]

If he's not ready for game 1 next year, I have a problem. Till then, I'm defending the best thing to happen to Chicago basketball since 1998.

First I greatly appreciate your honesty, so thanks.

But, the above comment does not compute with what you said one post above:

Because he doesn't want to be the next Penny Hardaway. Because he's playing it safe. Because he's 24. Because he's not mentally prepared at this point late in the season. Because he's Derrick F'n Rose.

This seems like, you are with missing the season, but you have a drop dead return date, it's just a little later than mine.

Ditto with those that were fine with him missing the regular season, but not the playoffs. Just different arbitrary dates.

You posted like you have an open ended return date, because he's Derrick, but admit that you really don't have an open ended return date.

No, I don't believe I've ever posted an open ended return date. Just because I'm ok with him missing this season doesn't mean I'm ok with him not being ready next year. My drop dead date is an entire offseason later. When I say he should return when he's ready, that's in discussion for this year. But if he's not ready next year I'll gladly admit I was wrong and that something is completely wrong.

I'm sorry I can't put all my thoughts into my posts.

[Wingy]

Does Reinsdorf strike you as someone that will allow his team to be bullied?

The Bulls have had a good team, a really good team, I'm not sure what the Team Thorn whine would be.

If they want another big sexy name, since Reg is maybe from the ESPN/NBA Y2K generation, the best way for that is for Derrick to recruit.

If the right way was tried to no effect, then even if he appears that he won't be bullied, why not try the last resort?

Sexy name. How bout trying the bold move of upgrading Keith Bogans/the corpse of Rip Hamilton

[kyrv]

If he's not ready for game 1 next year, I have a problem. Till then, I'm defending the best thing to happen to Chicago basketball since 1998.

First I greatly appreciate your honesty, so thanks.

But, the above comment does not compute with what you said one post above:

Because he doesn't want to be the next Penny Hardaway. Because he's playing it safe. Because he's 24. Because he's not mentally prepared at this point late in the season. Because he's Derrick F'n Rose.

This seems like, you are with missing the season, but you have a drop dead return date, it's just a little later than mine.

Ditto with those that were fine with him missing the regular season, but not the playoffs. Just different arbitrary dates.

You posted like you have an open ended return date, because he's Derrick, but admit that you really don't have an open ended return date.

No, I don't believe I've ever posted an open ended return date. Just because I'm ok with him missing this season doesn't mean I'm ok with him not being ready next year. My drop dead date is an entire offseason later. When I say he should return when he's ready, that's in discussion for this year. But if he's not ready next year I'll gladly admit I was wrong and that something is completely wrong.

I'm sorry I can't put all my thoughts into my posts.

Gotcha, thanks for the clarification.

[kyrv]

Does Reinsdorf strike you as someone that will allow his team to be bullied?

The Bulls have had a good team, a really good team, I'm not sure what the Team Thorn whine would be.

If they want another big sexy name, since Reg is maybe from the ESPN/NBA Y2K generation, the best way for that is for Derrick to recruit.

If the right way was tried to no effect, then even if he appears that he won't be bullied, why not try the last resort?

Sexy name. How bout trying the bold move of upgrading Keith Bogans/the corpse of Rip Hamilton

Then he shouldn't have signed an extension, especially at the full max.

And if he's really not playing in protest - I mean you are really okay with that? You really think that will result in a happy ending (giggety)? I sure don't. (and I mean for us as Bulls fans, Rose will make his money, he'll be fine)

[Wingy]

Yes, yes I'm fine with it. As I said, despite the fact that I think he could play and I'd like him to play I do see many reasons why his situation is very unique, why he'd want to be beyond conservative, and playing it even ridiculously safe isn't a bad thing under the circumstances. As a fan, what do I have to gain if we get ousted right now vs Brooklyn or next round vs Miami? A few more games to watch. Nothing else.