Butler calls out Hoiberg / Update pg 33: KC releases negative report on Jimmy

[bennjuiced34]

What is the passive or aggressive fight here?

The "fight" seems to be Jimmy versus the rest of the team. A fight that Jimmy has picked and is constantly stoking the fire on.

Jimmy called his own self out, is he fighting with himself too?

The guy wants a lazy insubordinate team to play harder and a laid back passive coach to try harder to make them do it.

He's picked the right fight exactly, just went about fighting it in a bad way in this case.

Not everyone on the team believes Jimmy has this right.

Just from DIRECT quotes so far:

Noah
Taj

Thats 2 of the 5 of the Bulls vets- the other 2 being Kirk and Rose. Pau is not a "Bulls vet". He is an NBA vet.

So, of the 5 Chicago veterans, only Jimmy feels the need to constantly push back on his team, their effort and the coaching direction or lack thereof.

Theres such a thing as perspective. Jimmy's is clearly different than the rest of the vets on the team.

I think Jimmy is trying to establish himself as a leader and this is his way of going about doing it. He doesn't feel the team is responding internally, so he goes to the media (which is a bad move). Jimmy was vocal in the pre-season about taking on a much bigger leadership this role because he felt the team needed it.

He's trying to insert himself into the hierarchy, which I have no issue with. I'm glad he wants to be a leader, but keep that stuff in house.

[musiqsoulchild]

EXPLAIN pls

The assumptions in this thread are wild. WHY does this boil down to rose?

It doesnt ...even if it did, thats not the topic.

the hell, am I talking to you? I want to know why HE thinks this is about Rose.

This whole thing is about the TEAM. So, yeah, it's indirectly about Rose and everyone with a Bulls uni on.

Huh?

I was agreeing with you that Jimmy's comments had nothing to do with Rose or "boiling down to Rose".

[WIN]

Here's what Taj Gibson thinks of Fred Hoiberg. This interview is from 40 days ago. Much before Fred even asked him to start. So, this is unbiased info.

40 days ago Hoiberg wasn't making blunder after blunder after blunder in how he managed rotations and substitutions. Regardless of what Jimmy said, Hoiberg has done a poor job in the way he literally rewarded guys playing terribly by having them play down the stretch to close out games.

I think the team likes Hoiberg, but he clearly needs to do a better job in holding guys accountable.

[musiqsoulchild]

Theres such a thing as perspective. Jimmy's is clearly different than the rest of the vets on the team.

I understand that.

But I think the other vets on this team probably aren't showing great leadership, or something like this wouldn't occur.

There has been a leadership vacuum since Thibs was fired, and Jimmy has tried to fill it. He doesn't seem to be succeeding so far. Now whether that he doesn't know how to go about it (even prior now) or the rest of the team just won't respond to anyone, hard to say.

That STYLE of leadership has been repudiated. And rejected.

We are moving on to playing like " trained, caged dogs...ready to fight if need be". Not my words ----Taj Gibson said that. Post-Thibs. Last month.

Sounds like ALL the vets sans Jimmy are OK with using the regular season to develop younger players and play at a level or two below max.

Time to revisit your sig again this playoffs.

[Rerisen]

Sounds like ALL the vets sans Jimmy are OK with using the regular season to develop younger players and play at a level or two below max.

Time to revisit your sig again this playoffs.

That's much different than not executing the coach's gameplan, which was Jimmy's complaint.

Just taking the regular season lightly is bad enough, but this is worse.

He described a rudderless team pretty much.

[bennjuiced34]

Just playing out scenerios here, but Jimmy seems like a Type-A guy. An alpha dog with a very assertive personality that stems from his competitiveness. Maybe he's doing this to see who fights back or who responds.

He might be trying to upset the established order or light a fire under his team, which again, I have no issue with that. Just keep it in house and make sure your coach is in line with it.

[bennjuiced34]

Sounds like ALL the vets sans Jimmy are OK with using the regular season to develop younger players and play at a level or two below max.

Time to revisit your sig again this playoffs.

That's much different than not executing the coach's gameplan, which was Jimmy's complaint.

Just taking the regular season lightly is bad enough, but this is worse.

He described a rudderless team pretty much.

And Jimmy has been a culprit, no? Sure, he asked for more isolations and Fred gave it to him, but that's not what Fred wants. Jimmy is exorcising his own will here. When the nail gets too far above the board, you knock it back down.

[Rerisen]

Just playing out scenerios here, but Jimmy seems like a Type-A guy. An alpha dog with a very assertive personality that stems from his competitiveness. Maybe he's doing this to see who fights back or who responds.

Yeah I'm not sure this team has ever had this kind of leader, or self styled leader.

Deng led with being the nice guy, Noah with on floor emotion, and Jimmy is trying to lead with the kick in the pants style.

Team probably doesn't know how to respond.

[Ice Man]

Sounds like ALL the vets sans Jimmy are OK with using the regular season to develop younger players and play at a level or two below max.

They are? Where do they say that? At any rate, playing the hell out of Tony Snell and sitting Bobby Portis is the opposite of development.

[musiqsoulchild]

Sounds like ALL the vets sans Jimmy are OK with using the regular season to develop younger players and play at a level or two below max.

Time to revisit your sig again this playoffs.

That's much different than not executing the coach's gameplan, which was Jimmy's complaint.

Just taking the regular season lightly is bad enough, but this is worse.

He described a rudderless team pretty much.

Again, thats a bombastic, egotistical view from Jimmy.

Kind of reminds me of some Knicks posters a few years ago on the Knicks board. They would start threads stating that they were leaving the board and giving elaborate reasons why.

Sounds like Jimmy wants his voice heard. Too bad, no one is listening. Thats typically what happens when you speak with the express intent of having your own voice heard.

Vocal leadership.

[Rerisen]

And Jimmy has been a culprit, no? Sure, he asked for more isolations and Fred gave it to him, but that's not what Fred wants. Jimmy is exorcising his own will here. When the nail gets too far above the board, you knock it back down.

Jimmy isn't the only nail than needs to be knocked though, that's kind of the genesis of the whole thing.

They can fine or suspend Jimmy for this and be in their rights, but I would hope that wouldn't be the end of it, and then we just go right back to this insipid play we've had for two years.

There's a reason, and not a good reason, when your best player lashes out like this.

The reason is not that Jimmy is just a cancer.

[Rerisen]

Sounds like Jimmy wants his voice heard. Too bad, no one if listening. Thats typically what happens when you speak with the express intent of having your own voice heard.

No one is listening regardless with what intent is being spoken from what I see.

Team is listless and not listening to the coach for two years now, and it was one reason the last guy got fired. But now its ok I guess.

[bennjuiced34]

And Jimmy has been a culprit, no? Sure, he asked for more isolations and Fred gave it to him, but that's not what Fred wants. Jimmy is exorcising his own will here. When the nail gets too far above the board, you knock it back down.

Jimmy isn't the only nail than needs to be knocked though, that's kind of the genesis of the whole thing.

They can fine or suspend Jimmy for this and be in their rights, but I would hope that wouldn't be the end of it, and then we just go right back to this insipid play we've had for two years.

There's a reason, and not a good reason, when your best player lashes out like this.

Some of it could be self-serving, to be honest. He was frustrated, no doubt about it and I agree with his frustration. But let's be honest here; not warming up with the team, cursing at coaches, disrupting film sessions and calling names to the media isn't good leadership. It comes off as selfish and that's not how you get guys to buy in.

[Rerisen]

Some of it could be self-serving, to be honest. He was frustrated, no doubt about it and I agree with his frustration. But let's be honest here; not warming up with the team, cursing at coaches, disrupting film sessions and calling names to the media isn't good leadership. It comes off as selfish and that's not how you get guys to buy in.

No it isn't good leadership.

Hopefully someone steps up and provides some, and I don't just mean in bringing Jimmy back in line from this incident.

[Rerisen]

They better be careful in how they deal with this though, if they tick off Jimmy to the point he starts playing with the same casualness of the rest of the team, probably 5 wins off the record.

Butler is probably the difference between a 50 win team and a 40 win team right now.

[R3AL1TY]

Butler has an issue with Taj and Noah. It's no secret..

you are so full of crap with this... these three are like the three amigos and the three hardest working guys on the floor always.

Dude Noah is definitely in Roses camp. Never got that feeling. Noah likes Snell more then Butler. Jimmy actually is not that well liked.

He gets knocked down and is in a tussle. No one comes.

I wondered about that the other day. How come no one really comes to the rescue when Butler is in an altercation. Now it makes sense when you add in Stacey's rant. They are probably used of seeing his wanna fight attitude in practice to the point they are being at a distance towards him. Both him and the team really need to iron things out.

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[bennjuiced34]

Interesting quote from Butler today to the Media after Shootaround;

Butler said he's learning to be a leader. Said this is first team he's tried to be a leader on.

------

Maybe these are just growing pains? I don't think Jimmy is a bad guy at all, in fact I think he's quite the opposite. I liked how he went straight to the reporters after Shootaround to address everything. At least he's not hiding from it.

This may end up being a positive if everyone gets on the same page.

[Rerisen]

Interesting quote from Butler today to the Media after Shootaround;

Butler said he's learning to be a leader. Said this is first team he's tried to be a leader on.

Said the same thing yesterday, I doubt there was malicious intent, and that he would probably be shocked by the blowback.

The guy is struggling to jumpstart this team. You don't put a hit piece on him in the paper, you bring him in - which Fred did - and try to resolve it with some positive momentum.

FO is undermining Fred by lashing back out at Jimmy via KC.

[musiqsoulchild]

Sounds like Jimmy wants his voice heard. Too bad, no one if listening. Thats typically what happens when you speak with the express intent of having your own voice heard.

No one is listening regardless with what intent is being spoken from what I see.

Team is listless and not listening to the coach for two years now, and it was one reason the last guy got fired. But now its ok I guess.

Thats not true at all.

Doug, Noah, Niko, Taj, Pau, Brooks, Kirk, Rose, Snell ---- all of these players have at some point in time in the 25 games thus far been asked to SIGNIFICANTLY change:

1) Their role ( Noah, Taj, Niko)
2) Their defensive assignment ( Noah, Pau, Taj)
3) The offense and how its run ( Rose, Noah, Pau)
4) The role on offense ( Doug and Snell have green light to shoot the 3. Rose doesnt.)

Some of these changes have been ADDITIONS to their 2014 season roles. Some have been DELETIONS from their 2014 role. And some have been MODIFICATIONS to their 2014 roles.

Thats all Hoiberg.

This isnt politics - Fred doesnt have to advertise that he is doing such and such with celebratory anectodes and coaching cliches. He is his own man - he will coach the way he knows how.He will communicate the way he knows how. He will lead the way he knows how.

What he knows is what he was hired for. What he knows is what made him a hot commodity in the NBA coaching market, before we were able to lock him up for 5 years.

[Rerisen]

Thats not true at all.

Doug, Noah, Niko, Taj, Pau, Brooks, Kirk, Rose, Snell ---- all of these players have at some point in time in the 25 games thus far been asked to SIGNIFICANTLY change:

1) Their role ( Noah, Taj, Niko)
2) Their defensive assignment ( Noah, Pau, Taj)
3) The offense and how its run ( Rose, Noah, Pau)
4) The role on offense ( Doug and Snell have green light to shoot the 3. Rose doesnt.)

Some of these changes have been ADDITIONS to their 2014 season roles. Some have been DELETIONS from their 2014 role. And some have been MODIFICATIONS to their 2014 roles.

Thats all Hoiberg.

This isnt politics - Fred doesnt have to advertise that he is doing such and such with celebratory anectodes and coaching cliches. He is his own man - he will coach the way he knows how.He will communicate the way he knows how. He will lead the way he knows how.

What he knows is what he was hired for. What he knows is what made him a hot commodity in the NBA coaching market, before we were able to lock him up for 5 years.

What does any of that have to do with executing the coach's game plan? Nothing.

Fred has power to make the rotation, duh, it isn't getting better teammwork or buy in though than the last guy who got fired for it.

Team has better health than last year, more experienced young players, and supposedly a better system and usage of players and is on pace for less wins. Jimmy clearly sees that and that is why he is upset.