OT: COVID-19 thread #4

[Dresden]

Well...

Yes our daily cases have gone down but they are still over 100,000 daily, that seems like a huge ongoing #. And if you look at the graphs it goes down, then Delta hits and it goes up MADLY, which still points out what is the most troubling thing about this many cases, we DRAMATICALLY increase the chances of developing the Theta Variant (or whatever) which might be even harder to treat.

Face it, the U.S. response has been highly problematic. Yes, access was an issue but reluctance is far more of one. We are doing a bang up job of increasing the chances of incubating the next, nastier, Covid

And it's not just the US- many countries in the global south have far worse records of immunization than we do. And more vulnerable populations. Unless the world can make a lot more progress is getting the vaccine available to ALL countries, there will be huge pockets of population for mutations to occur in.

The head of Moderna thinks they will be able to catch up to the demand for vaccine in the next 12 months, we'll see....I hope so.

[Almost Retired]

Is Barron's An accepted media resource? It's hard to keep up with who is a reputable source or a right wing conspiracy theory peddler.
Since this is tangential to the whole Vaccine kerfuffle I thought I would post this:

"Proceed With Caution At Your Own Peril" - Merck's COVID 'Super Drug' Poses Serious Health Risks, Scientists Warn

FRIDAY, OCT 08, 2021 - 09:56 AM
As it turns out, all the scientists and doctors who insisted that Merck's "revolutionary" COVID drug molnupiravir is extremely safe weren't faithfully adhering to "the science" after all. Because according to a report published Thursday by Barron's, some scientists are worried that the drug - which purportedly cut hospitalizations in half during a study that was cut short - could cause cancer or birth defects.

Trimmed out article, I've already told you two separate occasions, you cannot post full articles here, posts summarized pieces that are quoted with links.

[dougthonus]

Is Barron's An accepted media resource? It's hard to keep up with who is a reputable source or a right wing conspiracy theory peddler.
Since this is tangential to the whole Vaccine kerfuffle I thought I would post this:

"Proceed With Caution At Your Own Peril" - Merck's COVID 'Super Drug' Poses Serious Health Risks, Scientists Warn

I don't really know anything about Merck's drug, but certainly the science behind it should be validated before it's given wide use and just like any of the other drugs which were keyed as wonder drugs, they should be questioned thoroughly.

Stuff that operates in this way, IMO, needs to be near side effect free to be given, because you have to start it (if I recall correctly) before you know how severe your infection is. It's one thing to take a regimen of drugs while hospitalized that contain some significant risks, it's another thing to take them at the onset when you might just feel lousy for a week and the risks may be better than the payoff.

In that sense, that's why the vaccine is such a nobrainer, the risks are well documented and minimal compared to the gains.

also, please see my edit, you can't post full articles. Post summarized versions and links. I literally do not understand why I have had to spell this out for you on three occasions now. It is very basic. It's not going to change. Post links not quotes of full articles.

[Dresden]

It sounds like this drug will only be given to people at serious risk of Covid complications. It won't be an OTC medicine that everyone will be taking. And it will likely be especially contra-indicated for people of reproductive age. The complaint seems to be that there aren't enough long term animal studies to determine whether it might cause cancer or mutations in the long term, although Merck is claiming they saw no evidence of this in the animals they've studied.

So it comes down to a risk-benefit analysis. We still have over 1,700 people a day dying from Covid. This pill seems to prevent about 50% of the cases from progressing to hospitalization or death. If I had several risk factors, and contracted Covid, I think I would be very inclined to take the very small chance that I might get cancer from it (likely years or decades from now), in order to improve my odds by 50% of not going to the hospital or dying from Covid.

[Almost Retired]

It sounds like this drug will only be given to people at serious risk of Covid complications. It won't be an OTC medicine that everyone will be taking. And it will likely be especially contra-indicated for people of reproductive age. The complaint seems to be that there aren't enough long term animal studies to determine whether it might cause cancer or mutations in the long term, although Merck is claiming they saw no evidence of this in the animals they've studied.

So it comes down to a risk-benefit analysis. We still have over 1,700 people a day dying from Covid. This pill seems to prevent about 50% of the cases from progressing to hospitalization or death. If I had several risk factors, and contracted Covid, I think I would be very inclined to take the very small chance that I might get cancer from it (likely years or decades from now), in order to improve my odds by 50% of not going to the hospital or dying from Covid.

Yes, that is the trade off. As long as patients are adequately informed of the potential risks then taking the drug rather than dying is a viable choice many patients will agree to take. A better alternative to Remdesevir needs to be found. I'm not sure I'm seeing enough bang for the buck with that drug. Maybe is prevents some recent exposure cases from developing into full blown crisis. But once a patient is pretty sick I'm not seeing that Remdesevir is helping a whole lot.

[dougthonus]

Side note, got my COVID booster vaccine today. I'll report back on whether the 3rd shot knocks you on your ass or not

[Almost Retired]

https://www.theepochtimes.com/iceland-stops-using-moderna-vaccine-over-heart-inflammation-risk_4040135.html?


What's with all these right wing Scandanavian Countries banning the Moderna version of the vaccine?

[dice]

https://www.theepochtimes.com/iceland-stops-using-moderna-vaccine-over-heart-inflammation-risk_4040135.html?


What's with all these right wing Scandanavian Countries banning the Moderna version of the vaccine?

what's with your use of misinformation websites?

as for your question, obviously if one vaccine is producing side affects in any significant number of people, a viable alternative should be used. and more liberal governments like those in scandanavia are obviously more likely to intervene in such cases rather than leave it to the free market. but i'm sure you already knew that

[bulls_troy]

Side note, got my COVID booster vaccine today. I'll report back on whether the 3rd shot knocks you on your ass or not

Which of the vaccines did you get again? Pfizer?

[Almost Retired]

https://www.theepochtimes.com/iceland-stops-using-moderna-vaccine-over-heart-inflammation-risk_4040135.html?


What's with all these right wing Scandanavian Countries banning the Moderna version of the vaccine?

what's with your use of misinformation websites?

as for your question, obviously if one vaccine is producing side affects in any significant number of people, a viable alternative should be used. and more liberal governments like those in scandanavia are obviously more likely to intervene in such cases rather than leave it to the free market. but i'm sure you already knew that

Please, give me the complete list of all the approved websites. I lose track. So many get banned, and cancelled, and de-platformed, and censored, and de-monetized. Good thing we have the First Amendment. Or has that been shadow banned as well?

Like I've said, the entire United States Federal Government is a misinformation tsunami that never ends, never goes back to telling the simple truth. I'd trust the Epoch Times and the stories they publish before I'd believe anything said by Fauci, a publicity hound with a penchant for lying or just being dead wrong. If there were any justice in this country or on this earth he'd rot in jail for the rest of his life for crimes against humanity. 5 Million dead by the end of this year and he helped direct funding that made that possible. Somewhere in hell Pol Pot is jealous.

[dice]

https://www.theepochtimes.com/iceland-stops-using-moderna-vaccine-over-heart-inflammation-risk_4040135.html?


What's with all these right wing Scandanavian Countries banning the Moderna version of the vaccine?

what's with your use of misinformation websites?

as for your question, obviously if one vaccine is producing side affects in any significant number of people, a viable alternative should be used. and more liberal governments like those in scandanavia are obviously more likely to intervene in such cases rather than leave it to the free market. but i'm sure you already knew that

Please, give me the complete list of all the approved websites. I lose track. So many get banned, and cancelled, and de-platformed, and censored, and de-monetized. Good thing we have the First Amendment. Or has that been shadow banned as well?

it's not a first amendment issue. it's a credibility issue. you are free to continue to be willfully misinformed to suit your worldview

I'd trust the Epoch Times and the stories they publish before I'd believe anything said by Fauci, a publicity hound with a penchant for lying or just being dead wrong.

the anti-fauci right wing media blitz pretty much encapsulates the lunacy of the trump era

donald trump made anthony fauci famous. you had never heard of him prior to that despite being WORLD RENOUNED in his profession. for the duration of the trump presidency fauci limited his TV appearances (during a once-in-a-lifetime world event in which his expertise was in demand), particularly on outlets perceived by trump as left-wing, at the direction of the trump white house. because he felt that his day job was more important than his public pronouncements. that ain't a publicity hound. it's a professional. his one mistake in my mind was agreeing to throw out the first pitch at the nationals game

If there were any justice in this country or on this earth he'd rot in jail for the rest of his life for crimes against humanity. 5 Million dead by the end of this year and he helped direct funding that made that possible. Somewhere in hell Pol Pot is jealous.

spoken like a devotee of the epoch times

i'd ask how anthony fauci has killed people, but i'm pretty sure i don't want the bat**** crazy answer

"i'd trust the epoch times before i'd trust the US government"? this is how misinformation warps minds. was the epoch times one of your trusted sources about how trump would win the election comfortably? the arizona "audit"?

fox news was created to be a marketing arm of the GOP, which morphed into the birther party. the last fox news poll of registered voters in 2020 had biden winning the popular vote by 8 over the birther party candidate. biden won the popular vote by 4.4

the epoch times: for when fox news isn't nearly right-wing enough

[dougthonus]

Side note, got my COVID booster vaccine today. I'll report back on whether the 3rd shot knocks you on your ass or not

Which of the vaccines did you get again? Pfizer?

I got Pfizer.

3rd shot had the lowest amount of side effects of the three for me by a pretty good margin. I also got it at the same time as the yearly flu shot. I was a bit fatigued and had the sore arm, but not as bad as the first two where I was straight up napping for 3-4 hours and had fatigue that lasted multiple days.

[dougthonus]

If there were any justice in this country or on this earth he'd rot in jail for the rest of his life for crimes against humanity. 5 Million dead by the end of this year and he helped direct funding that made that possible. Somewhere in hell Pol Pot is jealous.

Just out of curiosity, what do you think Fauci should have done that would have prevented 5 million people from dying?

Up until there was a vaccine and plenty of PPE available, there was probably literally nothing anyone could do that was going to make all that much of a difference. Maybe the other thing we could have done was to act far more tyrannical and shut down the borders permanently until the pandemic ended and then put in strict quarantines anywhere COVID hits so no one gets in or out. I don't think many people had the stomach for that (including myself).

So then if you don't have the stomach for draconian measures, the things which have been shown to help pretty conclusively were vaccines and masks, and to state the obvious Fauci advocated both when they were available and studies showed they helped. So I'm not sure what you think he should have done differently earlier.

If you want to say some people should be rotting in hell for pushing policy that ends up with greater death (which to me is a bit much but your words not mine), then it would generally be the anti-vax crowd which is trying to stop people from doing the one thing which is clinically proven to massively makes things better and now freely available to anyone. This crowd is giving out bad advice AFTER it is overwhelmingly studied and obvious to be bad advice while pushing things which are frequently outright lies and misinformation.

A great example would be trying to convince people Ivermectin is better than the Vaccine. People who spread such misinformation and outright lies in the face of overwhelming evidence are absolutely the cause of increased death to the extent they have gained enough audience to impact anyone's decision.

[Almost Retired]

If there were any justice in this country or on this earth he'd rot in jail for the rest of his life for crimes against humanity. 5 Million dead by the end of this year and he helped direct funding that made that possible. Somewhere in hell Pol Pot is jealous.

Just out of curiosity, what do you think Fauci should have done that would have prevented 5 million people from dying?

Up until there was a vaccine and plenty of PPE available, there was probably literally nothing anyone could do that was going to make all that much of a difference. Maybe the other thing we could have done was to act far more tyrannical and shut down the borders permanently until the pandemic ended and then put in strict quarantines anywhere COVID hits so no one gets in or out. I don't think many people had the stomach for that (including myself).

So then if you don't have the stomach for draconian measures, the things which have been shown to help pretty conclusively were vaccines and masks, and to state the obvious Fauci advocated both when they were available and studies showed they helped. So I'm not sure what you think he should have done differently earlier.

If you want to say some people should be rotting in hell for pushing policy that ends up with greater death (which to me is a bit much but your words not mine), then it would generally be the anti-vax crowd which is trying to stop people from doing the one thing which is clinically proven to massively makes things better and now freely available to anyone. This crowd is giving out bad advice AFTER it is overwhelmingly studied and obvious to be bad advice while pushing things which are frequently outright lies and misinformation.

A great example would be trying to convince people Ivermectin is better than the Vaccine. People who spread such misinformation and outright lies in the face of overwhelming evidence are absolutely the cause of increased death to the extent they have gained enough audience to impact anyone's decision.

Doug, If Fauci had not facilitated the funding of gain of function research we might not have ever had a Covid pandemic to contend with. He's partially at fault for the whole fiasco. Him, and Peter Daszak of EcoHeath Alliance which acted as the strawman that diverted US Taxpayer funding to the Lab in Wuhan. And Professor Ralph Baric of the University of North Carolina and his colleagues like Boyd Yount and Kristopher Curtis that own various patents on aspects of the virus that was created in a lab like Frankenstein's monster. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Whatever the legitimate reasoning was for tinkering with mother nature they were fully aware of the potential dangers if this lab created chimeric virus escaped. And the worst did indeed happen. Every single scientist involved should be brought before the International Criminal Court in The Hague and be prosecuted for Crimes Against Humanity. Perhaps that would deter other future scientists from delving into such potentially dangerous research.

What Fauci did or didn't do after the virus escaped is a different question altogether. The cat was already out of the bag. If the United Nations were not just a bunch of navel gazers who convene in New York for the primary purpose of utilizing their expense accounts at New York eateries they would convene a plenary session to condemn this type of research and develop a plan to monitor such research and shut it down with potential national sanctions. But they don't have the independence or fortitude to do that because the two primary perpetrators of this massive blunder were the United States and China.

What other potentially deadly viruses are being experimented on? Ebola? Hanta virus? We have no idea. ALL types of this research where potential pathogens are manipulated needs to be 100% banned world wide. This research is almost as potentially deadly as nuclear war. And we have a Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty. We need a biological equivalent. The death and economic destruction brought about by Covid begs for a worldwide response. Instead of debating masks vs no masks , or vaccines vs no vaccines vs endless boosters, we need to prevent this from ever happening again. If we do nothing we risk a more deadly outbreak of some enhanced virus.

[Dresden]

https://www.theepochtimes.com/iceland-stops-using-moderna-vaccine-over-heart-inflammation-risk_4040135.html?


What's with all these right wing Scandanavian Countries banning the Moderna version of the vaccine?

what's with your use of misinformation websites?

as for your question, obviously if one vaccine is producing side affects in any significant number of people, a viable alternative should be used. and more liberal governments like those in scandanavia are obviously more likely to intervene in such cases rather than leave it to the free market. but i'm sure you already knew that

Please, give me the complete list of all the approved websites. I lose track. So many get banned, and cancelled, and de-platformed, and censored, and de-monetized. Good thing we have the First Amendment. Or has that been shadow banned as well?

Like I've said, the entire United States Federal Government is a misinformation tsunami that never ends, never goes back to telling the simple truth. I'd trust the Epoch Times and the stories they publish before I'd believe anything said by Fauci, a publicity hound with a penchant for lying or just being dead wrong. If there were any justice in this country or on this earth he'd rot in jail for the rest of his life for crimes against humanity. 5 Million dead by the end of this year and he helped direct funding that made that possible. Somewhere in hell Pol Pot is jealous.

This is so ridiculous. Fauci and the NIH did fund some research in the Wuhan lab, about 600K, and they were adamant that they were not funding GOF research. As has been said before here, the line as to what constitutes GOF is a blurry one that top scientists can't really agree on. But to blame Fauci for the pandemic is so ludicrous as to be beyond comprehension. You're assuming a) that the virus did escape from the Wuhan lab, b) that what escaped was a manufactured virus and not one taken from the wild c) that if it was a manufactured virus, that research would not have been possible without the measly 600K NIH grant, d) that it is Fauci himself who was personally behind giving them that grant, and most outrageously and slanderously, that f) Fauci approving a grant for scientific research is somehow morally equivalent to one of the most loathsome dictators that ever lived, who oversaw and ordered the slaughter of millions. To make that inference is just childish and reprehensible.

[Almost Retired]

what's with your use of misinformation websites?

as for your question, obviously if one vaccine is producing side affects in any significant number of people, a viable alternative should be used. and more liberal governments like those in scandanavia are obviously more likely to intervene in such cases rather than leave it to the free market. but i'm sure you already knew that

Please, give me the complete list of all the approved websites. I lose track. So many get banned, and cancelled, and de-platformed, and censored, and de-monetized. Good thing we have the First Amendment. Or has that been shadow banned as well?

Like I've said, the entire United States Federal Government is a misinformation tsunami that never ends, never goes back to telling the simple truth. I'd trust the Epoch Times and the stories they publish before I'd believe anything said by Fauci, a publicity hound with a penchant for lying or just being dead wrong. If there were any justice in this country or on this earth he'd rot in jail for the rest of his life for crimes against humanity. 5 Million dead by the end of this year and he helped direct funding that made that possible. Somewhere in hell Pol Pot is jealous.

This is so ridiculous. Fauci and the NIH did fund some research in the Wuhan lab, about 600K, and they were adamant that they were not funding GOF research. As has been said before here, the line as to what constitutes GOF is a blurry one that top scientists can't really agree on. But to blame Fauci for the pandemic is so ludicrous as to be beyond comprehension. You're assuming a) that the virus did escape from the Wuhan lab, b) that what escaped was a manufactured virus and not one taken from the wild c) that if it was a manufactured virus, that research would not have been possible without the measly 600K NIH grant, d) that it is Fauci himself who was personally behind giving them that grant, and most outrageously and slanderously, that f) Fauci approving a grant for scientific research is somehow morally equivalent to one of the most loathsome dictators that ever lived, who oversaw and ordered the slaughter of millions. To make that inference is just childish and reprehensible.

Continue with your willful blindness. It keeps you in your comfort zone.

[Almost Retired]

Worth The Time To Watch. Or continue to drink the kool aid. Your choice.
https://rumble.com/vnbv86-winning-the-war-against-therapeutic-nihilism-and-trusted-treatments-vs-unte.html

[Mbrahv0528]

https://www.theepochtimes.com/iceland-stops-using-moderna-vaccine-over-heart-inflammation-risk_4040135.html?


What's with all these right wing Scandanavian Countries banning the Moderna version of the vaccine?

what's with your use of misinformation websites?

as for your question, obviously if one vaccine is producing side affects in any significant number of people, a viable alternative should be used. and more liberal governments like those in scandanavia are obviously more likely to intervene in such cases rather than leave it to the free market. but i'm sure you already knew that

Please, give me the complete list of all the approved websites. I lose track. So many get banned, and cancelled, and de-platformed, and censored, and de-monetized. Good thing we have the First Amendment. Or has that been shadow banned as well?

Like I've said, the entire United States Federal Government is a misinformation tsunami that never ends, never goes back to telling the simple truth. I'd trust the Epoch Times and the stories they publish before I'd believe anything said by Fauci, a publicity hound with a penchant for lying or just being dead wrong. If there were any justice in this country or on this earth he'd rot in jail for the rest of his life for crimes against humanity. 5 Million dead by the end of this year and he helped direct funding that made that possible. Somewhere in hell Pol Pot is jealous.

Ok, this is just ridiculous.

Sent from my SM-F707U using RealGM mobile app

[Dresden]

Please, give me the complete list of all the approved websites. I lose track. So many get banned, and cancelled, and de-platformed, and censored, and de-monetized. Good thing we have the First Amendment. Or has that been shadow banned as well?

Like I've said, the entire United States Federal Government is a misinformation tsunami that never ends, never goes back to telling the simple truth. I'd trust the Epoch Times and the stories they publish before I'd believe anything said by Fauci, a publicity hound with a penchant for lying or just being dead wrong. If there were any justice in this country or on this earth he'd rot in jail for the rest of his life for crimes against humanity. 5 Million dead by the end of this year and he helped direct funding that made that possible. Somewhere in hell Pol Pot is jealous.

This is so ridiculous. Fauci and the NIH did fund some research in the Wuhan lab, about 600K, and they were adamant that they were not funding GOF research. As has been said before here, the line as to what constitutes GOF is a blurry one that top scientists can't really agree on. But to blame Fauci for the pandemic is so ludicrous as to be beyond comprehension. You're assuming a) that the virus did escape from the Wuhan lab, b) that what escaped was a manufactured virus and not one taken from the wild c) that if it was a manufactured virus, that research would not have been possible without the measly 600K NIH grant, d) that it is Fauci himself who was personally behind giving them that grant, and most outrageously and slanderously, that f) Fauci approving a grant for scientific research is somehow morally equivalent to one of the most loathsome dictators that ever lived, who oversaw and ordered the slaughter of millions. To make that inference is just childish and reprehensible.

Continue with your willful blindness. It keeps you in your comfort zone.

I feel comfortable believing in the scientific consensus, not some crackpot theories with very little evidence behind them. Being a lawyer, you ought to know what constitutes proof. These things you are espousing would get laughed out of court, just as Trump's claims about election tampering did.

[bulls_troy]

Side note, got my COVID booster vaccine today. I'll report back on whether the 3rd shot knocks you on your ass or not

Which of the vaccines did you get again? Pfizer?

I got Pfizer.

3rd shot had the lowest amount of side effects of the three for me by a pretty good margin. I also got it at the same time as the yearly flu shot. I was a bit fatigued and had the sore arm, but not as bad as the first two where I was straight up napping for 3-4 hours and had fatigue that lasted multiple days.

My first Pfizer shot I was a bit tired and slept for 3-4 hours and had a sore arm for a few days, the 2nd shot just the sore arm again.

We've had no mention of having a booster shot later down the road yet