IWannaGoHIGHER wrote:Dresden wrote:Guys like Agbaji are not that easy to find (Liddell either, IMO). Agbaji has the potential to be one of the top spot up 3 pt shooters in the league. Plus he's very athletic and shows excellent skills on defense. I think he'll be as good as Mikal Bridges, although a few inches shorter. He would fill an important role for us as a floor spacer and a lock down defender, which we surely need with a backcourt of Lavine, DDR and Coby.
Athletic guards these days are a dime a dozen. Agbaji is not Bridges (All NBA Defensive first team this year) on defense, nor has that kind of defensive protentional imo. Wouldn't even say he's one of the best defenders in this draft class. Bridges also averaged (40%) from 3pt in his three years at Nova, where Agabji only broke 40% 3pt his senior year.
Agabji had some steady improvement each year shooting, has some good form, but to say he'll be one of the top spot up 3pt shooters in the league, seems like a real stretch. Possible? Sure. Very likely? No.
Not to say he isn't a good prospect, or couldn't be a solid role player. You just mostly know who he is at this point. There just isn't a lot of recent historical precedent, of a four year college player, becoming a star.
Liddell is a undersized, 6'5.5" barefoot, PF/C. He does have a very noticeable defensive skill set, but is still a project on offense. Even after three years of college. Never shot over 50% from the field (as a big man). Again perhaps he's a solid role player, but he has limitations that imo, you can't look past. There are tweener wings/big man all over the NBA these days (Eric Paschall, PJ Tucker, Grant Williams, etc.)
Just don't buy the logic that you can't, fairly easily, find comparable players/skillset for both of them.
Dresden wrote:Draftnet has him mocked at 19 right now....he's got too many things he needs to work on for my taste. Has a lot of potential, but just seems like he's a long way away from reaching that. Could be a home run of a pick, but has a very high bust factor too. Don't see him being able to contribute for at least 2 more years.
I did see that, but seems like mostly he's got some real buzz, and the rumor is out there that he's has a lottery promise(first saw that from KOC). For whatever that is worth.
Totally fair, and legitimate argument. He likely has a higher chance to bust, than Agabji or Liddell. His shot is obviously a concern, but I think his defense, and playmaking ability, get him on the floor fairly quickly. When you talk about unique skill set, there aren't a lot 6'10 players with his handle, playmaking, and defensive potential. Now does he have the mental toughness, and work ethic to make the most of that protentional? Who knows.
I have just always felt the optimal draft strategy, is you always take swings on those with the highest potential. One of the very few ways the Bulls can break out of their current tier, is they hit on an All-NBA talent, in the middle/late first. Not very likely. But you take the best chances you can. And in my eyes, that is Dieng if he is there.
Dresden wrote:Liddell is listed at 6'7", the same height as Draymond Green and Paul Millsap. His fg% is what it is because he does shoot from the perimeter a lot. He's got a very respectable 3 point shot, and he's also got a pretty good handle for a big man.
Just because players are similar heights, does not mean they're comparable skillsets/prospects. Again players like Green/Millsap are exceptions to the rule. The NBA is going smaller, but size still does matter when it comes to defense, and matchups.
I mean 34% from the college three is solid for a big men. And it is encouraging that he worked on it, and it's improved. But watching him play, he's a pretty static shooter, can't really create shots for himself, and struggles to finish at the rim. He needs a lot of work to be an impactful scorer at the NBA level.
Dresden wrote:What I like about both he and Agbaji are their two way potential. Both can be plus defenders as well as being 3 point options on offense. We don't have many of those players on the team currently. In fact, Pat Williams, if he develops, is the only one, beside Lonzo.
That's a solid point. This team does need two way threats, especially on the wing/big men. If we're talking 3&D, I would throw Caruso in there as well though. Had a down shooting year, but I expect him to bounce back to the mean for his career, and shoot 37%+ this year. Ayo as well shot 37.6% this year. If he can become a steady high thirties 3pt% shooter, with his defense, and work ethic, he's got some 3&D potential as well.
Dresden wrote:Guys like Dieng or Jovic do have tantalizing potential, but I just think very few of these types of players ever amount to much in the nba. They are either two thin/weak, or their shot never comes around, or the skills they showed in Europe don't translate that well. It just seems like a real long shot, when with guys like Agbaji or Liddell, you know that you are getting guys that have nba ready skills and bodies, and that will at the very least, be solid rotation guys, which we are sorely lacking at this point. If it was easy just to pick up a bunch of good 3 and D players in FA, I'd be fine with that, but is that really the case?
I disagree with the bolded. If anything, we're seeing more and more influence of the International talent, and style coming into the NBA. The last four MVPs, and arguably the best young star in the league, all came from Europe.
If it was 20 years ago, I think that line of thought is probably more prevalent, and accurate. Again, the draft is a crap shoot, and a lot guys don't translate.
I do agree with your points on Agbaji, and Liddell being more NBA ready. And that's very fair point. But solid rotation guys don't win titles, talent does. The Bulls aren't winning a title, with this roster, plus a better bench. They need another star talent. And I think a prospect like Dieng, shows a lot more star protentional than Agbaji, or Liddell in that regard.
In general are they easy to find? No, I wouldn't say it's easy. But that's why you have a college, and pro scouting department. Which again netted you guys like Caruso, Ball, and Ayo last offseason. If you're looking for rotational players, whom are solid defenders, can be spacing threats, and hit catch and shoot threes. Then yes, I think those are players you can find, absolutely.
