2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2

[rtblues]

Starting to look more at volume rather than just shooting percentages, especially when looking at small sample sizes.
It's very telling in many ways.

[drosereturn]

Deni is still my #1 but I’m really liking the idea of a 3 Guard lineup of Coby Lavine Hayes. Think all 3 could defend the Jaylen Brown wings of the league.

Billy mentioned the advantage OKC had w their 3 PG lineup of CP3, SGA, and Shroeder. I could see him working magic with Hayes. Hayes would have the highest IQ of Coby and Lavine. Best passer. Smart off the ball.

I agree with what you said about Hayes. He’s #1 on my board for the Bulls.

I know it’s about crunch time lineups but do you think one of the 3 could start at the 3? Would Lavine complain about defending 3s. I know his best PER last season was as a 3 but I think that was semantics not him actually playing the 3.

What if Hayes was the primary playmaker at PG? Coby ran off screens and played mostly off ball (he’d be primary backup PG). Zach was secondary playmaker at SG who defends SFs. Zachs best defending on ball.

Three 6’5 Combos that can all play on and off ball. All can create and distribute. All can shoot.

Would this be the next progression of the league? Not wings that can score but big Guards that can score and defend multiple positions. Makes sense to me.

What makes even more sense with this roster is how big we are up front w Lauri and Carter for the Lakers teams of the world.

You just said all 3 guards could defend the prototypical wings of the league and wrote you worry about them starting the 3.
These players are barely over 6'4 thats avg sg size not even close to forwards. And they dont even have 7ft wing span to make up for lack of height the myth big scoring guards is the new meta is just theorycrafting when everyones going for at least 6'9 guys as their primary. I am willing to bet they give up 150 pts a game if they start/ play over 30.

OKC only did it bc they werent really contending and was shorthanded. They know its all gimmick they are going to sell their 3 pg lineup and rebuild. And 2 of those were all nba defensive 1st types. The Bulls roster is so terribly constructed I cant even pick Ball and forced to Deni whether he is even bpa or not.

[TheSuzerain]

Starting to look more at volume rather than just shooting percentages, especially when looking at small sample sizes.
It's very telling in many ways.

Markus Howard averaged 47 points per 100 possessions.

[Chi town]

I agree with what you said about Hayes. He’s #1 on my board for the Bulls.

I know it’s about crunch time lineups but do you think one of the 3 could start at the 3? Would Lavine complain about defending 3s. I know his best PER last season was as a 3 but I think that was semantics not him actually playing the 3.

What if Hayes was the primary playmaker at PG? Coby ran off screens and played mostly off ball (he’d be primary backup PG). Zach was secondary playmaker at SG who defends SFs. Zachs best defending on ball.

Three 6’5 Combos that can all play on and off ball. All can create and distribute. All can shoot.

Would this be the next progression of the league? Not wings that can score but big Guards that can score and defend multiple positions. Makes sense to me.

What makes even more sense with this roster is how big we are up front w Lauri and Carter for the Lakers teams of the world.

You just said all 3 guards could defend the prototypical wings of the league and wrote you worry about them starting the 3.
These players are barely over 6'4 thats avg sg size not even close to forwards. And they dont even have 7ft wing span to make up for lack of height the myth big scoring guards is the new meta is just theorycrafting when everyones going for at least 6'9 guys as their primary. I am willing to bet they give up 150 pts a game if they start/ play over 30.

OKC only did it bc they werent really contending and was shorthanded. They know its all gimmick they are going to sell their 3 pg lineup and rebuild. And 2 of those were all nba defensive 1st types. The Bulls roster is so terribly constructed I cant even pick Ball and forced to Deni whether he is even bpa or not.

Billy called it an advantage.

I’m not so sure. Post game is very minimal with wings on guards. Not many wings shoot over guards. They normally go around bigger slower post players.

Of course this is a theory. 3 PGs will hurt with length but make up for it in speed and quickness.

[ZOMG]

I agree with what you said about Hayes. He’s #1 on my board for the Bulls.

I know it’s about crunch time lineups but do you think one of the 3 could start at the 3? Would Lavine complain about defending 3s. I know his best PER last season was as a 3 but I think that was semantics not him actually playing the 3.

What if Hayes was the primary playmaker at PG? Coby ran off screens and played mostly off ball (he’d be primary backup PG). Zach was secondary playmaker at SG who defends SFs. Zachs best defending on ball.

Three 6’5 Combos that can all play on and off ball. All can create and distribute. All can shoot.

Would this be the next progression of the league? Not wings that can score but big Guards that can score and defend multiple positions. Makes sense to me.

What makes even more sense with this roster is how big we are up front w Lauri and Carter for the Lakers teams of the world.

You just said all 3 guards could defend the prototypical wings of the league and wrote you worry about them starting the 3.
These players are barely over 6'4 thats avg sg size not even close to forwards. And they dont even have 7ft wing span to make up for lack of height the myth big scoring guards is the new meta is just theorycrafting when everyones going for at least 6'9 guys as their primary. I am willing to bet they give up 150 pts a game if they start/ play over 30.

OKC only did it bc they werent really contending and was shorthanded. They know its all gimmick they are going to sell their 3 pg lineup and rebuild. And 2 of those were all nba defensive 1st types. The Bulls roster is so terribly constructed I cant even pick Ball and forced to Deni whether he is even bpa or not.

Coby White is 6'5'' now?

More like 6'3''.

[gobullschi]

The 3 guard lineup is a very interesting idea and would be effective in the Eastern Conference that only has Butler, Middleton, Warren, & Harris as difficult match ups.

It’s the Western Conference that it would likely be an issue. (LeBron, Leonard, Zion, DeRozan, Ingram, & Clarke)

*LaVine does look like he got bigger in the offseason too.

[gobullschi]

I know it’s about crunch time lineups but do you think one of the 3 could start at the 3? Would Lavine complain about defending 3s. I know his best PER last season was as a 3 but I think that was semantics not him actually playing the 3.

What if Hayes was the primary playmaker at PG? Coby ran off screens and played mostly off ball (he’d be primary backup PG). Zach was secondary playmaker at SG who defends SFs. Zachs best defending on ball.

Three 6’5 Combos that can all play on and off ball. All can create and distribute. All can shoot.

Would this be the next progression of the league? Not wings that can score but big Guards that can score and defend multiple positions. Makes sense to me.

What makes even more sense with this roster is how big we are up front w Lauri and Carter for the Lakers teams of the world.

You just said all 3 guards could defend the prototypical wings of the league and wrote you worry about them starting the 3.
These players are barely over 6'4 thats avg sg size not even close to forwards. And they dont even have 7ft wing span to make up for lack of height the myth big scoring guards is the new meta is just theorycrafting when everyones going for at least 6'9 guys as their primary. I am willing to bet they give up 150 pts a game if they start/ play over 30.

OKC only did it bc they werent really contending and was shorthanded. They know its all gimmick they are going to sell their 3 pg lineup and rebuild. And 2 of those were all nba defensive 1st types. The Bulls roster is so terribly constructed I cant even pick Ball and forced to Deni whether he is even bpa or not.

Coby White is 6'5'' now?

More like 6'3''.

6’3.5” without shoes. 6’5 with shoes.

[kodo]

Bulls already run a 3 guard lineup. Sato-Dunn-Lavine. And the 2nd most common perimeter lineup is Sato-Lavine-White.

Once the team adjusted to Boylen's new defense, the Bulls when fully healthy in December had the 2nd best defense in the NBA. Even with all the bigs dropping out of the lineup in early January, the Bulls managed an overall #12 defense in the league. The other team with a similar defense to ours, #11, is currently playing in the Finals. #12 is not bad by any means, we were #11 when we had Thibodeau, Butler, Joakim, and Taj.

Regardless, if AK thinks the BPA is a guard he should draft a guard. The team will not be recognizable in 2021 anyway, with only Lavine being a guaranteed contract and that's only for 1 year anyway.

[Jvaughn]

You just said all 3 guards could defend the prototypical wings of the league and wrote you worry about them starting the 3.
These players are barely over 6'4 thats avg sg size not even close to forwards. And they dont even have 7ft wing span to make up for lack of height the myth big scoring guards is the new meta is just theorycrafting when everyones going for at least 6'9 guys as their primary. I am willing to bet they give up 150 pts a game if they start/ play over 30.

OKC only did it bc they werent really contending and was shorthanded. They know its all gimmick they are going to sell their 3 pg lineup and rebuild. And 2 of those were all nba defensive 1st types. The Bulls roster is so terribly constructed I cant even pick Ball and forced to Deni whether he is even bpa or not.

Coby White is 6'5'' now?

More like 6'3''.

6’3.5” without shoes. 6’5 with shoes.

Yeah, unless he shrunk since the combine, he's 6'5 with shoes. And of course basketball is played in shoes, so....

[gobullschi]

Really the three guard line up makes a lot of sense because these 6’8”, two-way forwards don’t grow on trees.

Instead, build up all the other positions until one becomes available in free agency/trade (George, LeBron, Leonard, Durant, Butler, Anthony, etc)

[PlayerUp]

Starting to look more at volume rather than just shooting percentages, especially when looking at small sample sizes.
It's very telling in many ways.

Markus Howard averaged 47 points per 100 possessions.

You can buy a 2nd and pickup Markus Howard. Chance he goes undrafted but think he'll go #45-#60

[StunnerKO]

I know it’s about crunch time lineups but do you think one of the 3 could start at the 3? Would Lavine complain about defending 3s. I know his best PER last season was as a 3 but I think that was semantics not him actually playing the 3.

What if Hayes was the primary playmaker at PG? Coby ran off screens and played mostly off ball (he’d be primary backup PG). Zach was secondary playmaker at SG who defends SFs. Zachs best defending on ball.

Three 6’5 Combos that can all play on and off ball. All can create and distribute. All can shoot.

Would this be the next progression of the league? Not wings that can score but big Guards that can score and defend multiple positions. Makes sense to me.

What makes even more sense with this roster is how big we are up front w Lauri and Carter for the Lakers teams of the world.

You just said all 3 guards could defend the prototypical wings of the league and wrote you worry about them starting the 3.
These players are barely over 6'4 thats avg sg size not even close to forwards. And they dont even have 7ft wing span to make up for lack of height the myth big scoring guards is the new meta is just theorycrafting when everyones going for at least 6'9 guys as their primary. I am willing to bet they give up 150 pts a game if they start/ play over 30.

OKC only did it bc they werent really contending and was shorthanded. They know its all gimmick they are going to sell their 3 pg lineup and rebuild. And 2 of those were all nba defensive 1st types. The Bulls roster is so terribly constructed I cant even pick Ball and forced to Deni whether he is even bpa or not.

Coby White is 6'5'' now?

More like 6'3''.

He’s 6’4 that’s his height without shoes they updated all their heights in pre season

[MrFortune3]

I'm not worried about Coby's height in the 3 PG lineup. He'll likely be off-ball and shooting. Defensively I am worried about the size more than the height.

[ImSlower]

I'm not worried about Coby's height in the 3 PG lineup. He'll likely be off-ball and shooting. Defensively I am worried about the size more than the height.

Assuming it's Lauri and WCJ on court with those three, I tend to agree. It sounds like a ton of fun on offense, but I feel like those 5 get shredded by a lot of strong 2-man PnR games or an extra screener. I just don't think they have the strength. I still hesitantly think that Hayes is my guy (I don't think Avdija drops to 4), and if so we will see those three get minutes together. Let's say they're playing the Lakers - do they simply bench one and put in their presumed 6th man wing to guard the James/Davis Pick and Roll? Either Porter Jr or whomever AK alchemies up this off-season? Or will they be such a fun-as-hell dynamic offense that it's not as big a problem as I'm seeing it now, perhaps!

[TheSuzerain]

Starting to look more at volume rather than just shooting percentages, especially when looking at small sample sizes.
It's very telling in many ways.

Markus Howard averaged 47 points per 100 possessions.

You can buy a 2nd and pickup Markus Howard. Chance he goes undrafted but think he'll go #45-#60

Our pick is #44.

Close enough!

[TheSuzerain]

The gymnastics you guys go through to keep White in the starting lineup is really a sight to behold.

[Grodoboldo]

I'm not worried about Coby's height in the 3 PG lineup. He'll likely be off-ball and shooting. Defensively I am worried about the size more than the height.

Assuming it's Lauri and WCJ on court with those three, I tend to agree. It sounds like a ton of fun on offense, but I feel like those 5 get shredded by a lot of strong 2-man PnR games or an extra screener. I just don't think they have the strength. I still hesitantly think that Hayes is my guy (I don't think Avdija drops to 4), and if so we will see those three get minutes together. Let's say they're playing the Lakers - do they simply bench one and put in their presumed 6th man wing to guard the James/Davis Pick and Roll? Either Porter Jr or whomever AK alchemies up this off-season? Or will they be such a fun-as-hell dynamic offense that it's not as big a problem as I'm seeing it now, perhaps!

Your concerns are very relevant. Still, we're so far away from real contention that those worries will probably have to be addressed later. My view is that there's a very good chance that Hayes will be BPA at our pick. So we pick him and worry later. That applies to any pick, BTW. If the FO thinks Wiseman is BPA, we get him and worry about everything else later.

[MrFortune3]

The gymnastics you guys go through to keep White in the starting lineup is really a sight to behold.

It's not gymnastics. No player is taking him out of the starting line up unless he's getting traded for said player.

AK, Evs and BD have been sure to make mention of him every time they talk about the players on the team.

[TheSuzerain]

The gymnastics you guys go through to keep White in the starting lineup is really a sight to behold.

It's not gymnastics. No player is taking him out of the starting line up unless he's getting traded for said player.

AK, Evs and BD have been sure to make mention of him every time they talk about the players on the team.

He came off the bench the entirety of last season.

Does not sound like a guaranteed starter to me.

Especially if it's going to require wacky stuff like starting him over Otto Porter.

[MrFortune3]

I'm not worried about Coby's height in the 3 PG lineup. He'll likely be off-ball and shooting. Defensively I am worried about the size more than the height.

Assuming it's Lauri and WCJ on court with those three, I tend to agree. It sounds like a ton of fun on offense, but I feel like those 5 get shredded by a lot of strong 2-man PnR games or an extra screener. I just don't think they have the strength. I still hesitantly think that Hayes is my guy (I don't think Avdija drops to 4), and if so we will see those three get minutes together. Let's say they're playing the Lakers - do they simply bench one and put in their presumed 6th man wing to guard the James/Davis Pick and Roll? Either Porter Jr or whomever AK alchemies up this off-season? Or will they be such a fun-as-hell dynamic offense that it's not as big a problem as I'm seeing it now, perhaps!

I don't see them taking WCJ off the floor given his defensive ability and potential. The real question is can Lauri develop enough as a help and team defender to help negate the lack of size if that were to take place...