2020 NBA Draft Thread: Bulls pick 4th: PT 2

[ImSlower]

I'm not worried about Coby's height in the 3 PG lineup. He'll likely be off-ball and shooting. Defensively I am worried about the size more than the height.

Assuming it's Lauri and WCJ on court with those three, I tend to agree. It sounds like a ton of fun on offense, but I feel like those 5 get shredded by a lot of strong 2-man PnR games or an extra screener. I just don't think they have the strength. I still hesitantly think that Hayes is my guy (I don't think Avdija drops to 4), and if so we will see those three get minutes together. Let's say they're playing the Lakers - do they simply bench one and put in their presumed 6th man wing to guard the James/Davis Pick and Roll? Either Porter Jr or whomever AK alchemies up this off-season? Or will they be such a fun-as-hell dynamic offense that it's not as big a problem as I'm seeing it now, perhaps!

Your concerns are very relevant. Still, we're so far away from real contention that those worries will probably have to be addressed later. My view is that there's a very good chance that Hayes will be BPA at our pick. So we pick him and worry later. That applies to any pick, BTW. If the FO thinks Wiseman is BPA, we get him and worry about everything else later.

I agree. I am a worthless talent evaluator other than being 100% sure about Luka - pretty much everyone else I have eyes on every year disappoints (Mo Bomba, De'Andre Hunter, Nerlens Noel what the heck Slower). But my current logic is that Avdija is the best fit for our other guys, yet I think will be gone. Hayes sure looks like he'd slide right into our starting ballhandler easily. I am against Wiseman, though my mind could easily change if we get him, slide WCJ to the 4 and manage to move Lauri to greener pastures. Heck, if the rumors about Edwards sliding are true, he could be a beast with our guys. I agree, AK needs to take his big board's BPA and keep shaping the roster to his liking as needed. Donovan will make it work.

[MrFortune3]

The gymnastics you guys go through to keep White in the starting lineup is really a sight to behold.

It's not gymnastics. No player is taking him out of the starting line up unless he's getting traded for said player.

AK, Evs and BD have been sure to make mention of him every time they talk about the players on the team.

He came off the bench the entirety of last season.

Does not sound like a guaranteed starter to me.

Especially if it's going to require wacky stuff like starting him over Otto Porter.

His only competition for PG is Sato, if you bring in Hayes, you likely shift to a 3 PG lineup to put 3 guys on the floor who can handle the ball and score.

[MrFortune3]

Assuming it's Lauri and WCJ on court with those three, I tend to agree. It sounds like a ton of fun on offense, but I feel like those 5 get shredded by a lot of strong 2-man PnR games or an extra screener. I just don't think they have the strength. I still hesitantly think that Hayes is my guy (I don't think Avdija drops to 4), and if so we will see those three get minutes together. Let's say they're playing the Lakers - do they simply bench one and put in their presumed 6th man wing to guard the James/Davis Pick and Roll? Either Porter Jr or whomever AK alchemies up this off-season? Or will they be such a fun-as-hell dynamic offense that it's not as big a problem as I'm seeing it now, perhaps!

Your concerns are very relevant. Still, we're so far away from real contention that those worries will probably have to be addressed later. My view is that there's a very good chance that Hayes will be BPA at our pick. So we pick him and worry later. That applies to any pick, BTW. If the FO thinks Wiseman is BPA, we get him and worry about everything else later.

I agree. I am a worthless talent evaluator other than being 100% sure about Luka - pretty much everyone else I have eyes on every year disappoints (Mo Bomba, De'Andre Hunter, Nerlens Noel what the heck Slower). But my current logic is that Avdija is the best fit for our other guys, yet I think will be gone. Hayes sure looks like he'd slide right into our starting ballhandler easily. I am against Wiseman, though my mind could easily change if we get him, slide WCJ to the 4 and manage to move Lauri to greener pastures. Heck, if the rumors about Edwards sliding are true, he could be a beast with our guys. I agree, AK needs to take his big board's BPA and keep shaping the roster to his liking as needed. Donovan will make it work.

I want Deni so bad. He is just such a perfect fit for the team, position, play style, potential and etc.

[ZOMG]

You just said all 3 guards could defend the prototypical wings of the league and wrote you worry about them starting the 3.
These players are barely over 6'4 thats avg sg size not even close to forwards. And they dont even have 7ft wing span to make up for lack of height the myth big scoring guards is the new meta is just theorycrafting when everyones going for at least 6'9 guys as their primary. I am willing to bet they give up 150 pts a game if they start/ play over 30.

OKC only did it bc they werent really contending and was shorthanded. They know its all gimmick they are going to sell their 3 pg lineup and rebuild. And 2 of those were all nba defensive 1st types. The Bulls roster is so terribly constructed I cant even pick Ball and forced to Deni whether he is even bpa or not.

Coby White is 6'5'' now?

More like 6'3''.

He’s 6’4 that’s his height without shoes they updated all their heights in pre season

To sum up, he's got NBA PG size and plays even smaller than he is due to his bad vertical and small wingspan.

Coby has absolutely no business trying to defend NBA 3's, and many 2's will just shoot over him too.

[Grodoboldo]

I agree that Coby doesn't have great positional size/wingspan, but I though he did fine as a rookie on defense. I do not expect him to be a liability on that end going forward.

[Bulldog23]

I think we have been analyzing this draft for a long time..getting fatigued. For the Bulls I’ve narrowed it down to 2 players that I like. 1. Hayes, 2. Okoro, if Okoro or Hayes are both gone, I would trade down. I would like to see the Bulls get another pick in the first round and a another pick in the second. I think there a few nice players in this draft that can be solid players in the league.

[Chi town]

The gymnastics you guys go through to keep White in the starting lineup is really a sight to behold.

It's not gymnastics. No player is taking him out of the starting line up unless he's getting traded for said player.

AK, Evs and BD have been sure to make mention of him every time they talk about the players on the team.

He came off the bench the entirety of last season.

Does not sound like a guaranteed starter to me.

Especially if it's going to require wacky stuff like starting him over Otto Porter.

Everyone knows OPJ is on a prove it year. He gets hurt again he’s done. He plays really good he can stay.

No rookie is going to push a great OPJ to the bench. History says we won’t see that OPJ, he will get hurt, and Hayes would play/start... over Hutch and Sato. Which I’m fine with.

[Grodoboldo]

It's not gymnastics. No player is taking him out of the starting line up unless he's getting traded for said player.

AK, Evs and BD have been sure to make mention of him every time they talk about the players on the team.

He came off the bench the entirety of last season.

Does not sound like a guaranteed starter to me.

Especially if it's going to require wacky stuff like starting him over Otto Porter.

Everyone knows OPJ is on a prove it year. He gets hurt again he’s done. He plays really good he can stay.

No rookie is going to push a great OPJ to the bench. History says we won’t see that OPJ, he will get hurt, and Hayes would play/start... over Hutch and Sato. Which I’m fine with.

OPJ could also play the 4 if Markannen sucks or is traded.

[Dresden]

OT here, but a shout out to all of our Aussie members for re-introducing Tasmanian devils back to the mainland:

https://news.yahoo.com/tasmanian-devils-released-wild-3-034651699.html

May they live long and prosper.

[PlayerUp]

There’s more draft news to pass along:

Auburn’s Isaac Okoro believes he deserves consideration for the top pick in next month’s draft, writes Adam Zagoria for Forbes. Most of the discussion has focused on Anthony Edwards, LaMelo Ball and James Wiseman, but Okoro makes a case for the Timberwolves to take him first overall. “Yes, I feel I should be the No. 1 pick because I go out every game and I compete and I give 100% effort,” Okoro said. “I’m just willing to do whatever any coaches want me to do, so I feel like me bringing a winning culture I should be the No. 1 pick.”The 6’6″ forward had an outstanding season with the Tigers, averaging 12.9 points and 4.4 rebounds per game and earning spots on the SEC’s All-Defense and All-Freshman teams, along with second team all-conference honors. He believes he would be a good complement to the talent already in place in Minnesota.

Deni Avdija is likely to become the highest draft pick ever from Israel, notes Chase Hughes of NBC Sports Washington. The 19-year-old has spent the past two seasons in the EuroLeague, and although he hasn’t put up huge numbers, he has impressed scouts enough to be considered a top-10 selection. “It’s exciting. Any time you can make history or any kind of good thing to represent the Jewish community and the state of Israel, that’s an honor for me,” Avdija said.

Ball is taking an unusual path to the NBA, but he tells Jace Frederick of the St. Paul Pioneer Press that his experiences, which included leaving high school early and playing in Lithuania and Australia, helped prepare him for the challenges ahead. “When I made that first move to Lithuania, that’s really when I grew up and stuff,” Ball said. “I realized what was going on. I wouldn’t change my journey, because it’s one of one. I like it.”

Wiseman has moved into the second slot in the latest mock draft from Sam Vecenie of The Athletic. The writer sees Wiseman developing into a Defensive Player of the Year candidate, and players and trainers who have watched him work out say he looks “phenomenal.” Vecenie still has Ball as his No. 1 pick, with Edwards, Obi Toppin and Onyeka Okongwu rounding out the top five.

https://theathletic.com/2103507/2020/10/02/2020-nba-draft-big-board-the-post-playoffs-update-featuring-a-shakeup/?source=rss

[drosereturn]

I agree that Coby doesn't have great positional size/wingspan, but I though he did fine as a rookie on defense. I do not expect him to be a liability on that end going forward.

Literally alligator arms all 3 of them. White had to tryhard to make up for his 30% shooting but he can pull a Harden and decide to ignore defense like Lavine after getting that 20ppg and superstar title from Bulls fans.
I just dont understand why even bother with a 3 pg lineup when it wont work. One of them has to go period or accept 6th man and that includes both Lavine/White whoever is worse.

[drosereturn]

It's not gymnastics. No player is taking him out of the starting line up unless he's getting traded for said player.

AK, Evs and BD have been sure to make mention of him every time they talk about the players on the team.

He came off the bench the entirety of last season.

Does not sound like a guaranteed starter to me.

Especially if it's going to require wacky stuff like starting him over Otto Porter.

Everyone knows OPJ is on a prove it year. He gets hurt again he’s done. He plays really good he can stay.

No rookie is going to push a great OPJ to the bench. History says we won’t see that OPJ, he will get hurt, and Hayes would play/start... over Hutch and Sato. Which I’m fine with.

If Hayes is drafted and somehow they play the dumb 3 pg lineup one of Porter/Lauri/Carter is going to be benched.
Billy had major success with OKC so he might actually do this crazy experiment ignoring best talent and put Lavine at sf.
I want fun and dont mind the 3 pg experiment if they give up the season but at least get rid of Carter and start Lauri at 5 and Otto at 4 because the latter 2 is what I am most excited abt. Lets just do 5 experiments and go for 10 wins.

[Grodoboldo]

I agree that Coby doesn't have great positional size/wingspan, but I though he did fine as a rookie on defense. I do not expect him to be a liability on that end going forward.

Literally alligator arms all 3 of them. White had to tryhard to make up for his 30% shooting but he can pull a Harden and decide to ignore defense like Lavine after getting that 20ppg and superstar title from Bulls fans.
I just dont understand why even bother with a 3 pg lineup when it wont work. One of them has to go period or accept 6th man and that includes both Lavine/White whoever is worse.

Who said it won't work? Was it working with Sato instead of Coby? Even with Dunn? Because it did work in OKC with different players and an actual NBA coach.
Even if it doesn't work, it shouldn't matter for our draft choice. If the BPA is a PG, you draft him and worry about it later.

[TheSuzerain]

I agree that Coby doesn't have great positional size/wingspan, but I though he did fine as a rookie on defense. I do not expect him to be a liability on that end going forward.

Literally alligator arms all 3 of them. White had to tryhard to make up for his 30% shooting but he can pull a Harden and decide to ignore defense like Lavine after getting that 20ppg and superstar title from Bulls fans.
I just dont understand why even bother with a 3 pg lineup when it wont work. One of them has to go period or accept 6th man and that includes both Lavine/White whoever is worse.

Who said it won't work? Was it working with Sato instead of Coby? Even with Dunn? Because it did work in OKC with different players and an actual NBA coach.
Even if it doesn't work, it shouldn't matter for our draft choice. If the BPA is a PG, you draft him and worry about it later.

It worked with Chris Paul.

Which makes me think it's probably more of a Chris Paul thing than being some sort of innovative strategy.

We'll get our butts kicked if we try to play Hayes/White/Lavine together for extended minutes.

[Grodoboldo]

Literally alligator arms all 3 of them. White had to tryhard to make up for his 30% shooting but he can pull a Harden and decide to ignore defense like Lavine after getting that 20ppg and superstar title from Bulls fans.
I just dont understand why even bother with a 3 pg lineup when it wont work. One of them has to go period or accept 6th man and that includes both Lavine/White whoever is worse.

Who said it won't work? Was it working with Sato instead of Coby? Even with Dunn? Because it did work in OKC with different players and an actual NBA coach.
Even if it doesn't work, it shouldn't matter for our draft choice. If the BPA is a PG, you draft him and worry about it later.

It worked with Chris Paul.

Which makes me think it's probably more of a Chris Paul thing than being some sort of innovative strategy.

We'll get our butts kicked if we try to play Hayes/White/Lavine together for extended minutes.

We might. Then we now have a coach that will probably adjust the lineup. Still, that should NOT influence our draft choice.

[wonderboy2]

I agree that Coby doesn't have great positional size/wingspan, but I though he did fine as a rookie on defense. I do not expect him to be a liability on that end going forward.

Literally alligator arms all 3 of them. White had to tryhard to make up for his 30% shooting but he can pull a Harden and decide to ignore defense like Lavine after getting that 20ppg and superstar title from Bulls fans.
I just dont understand why even bother with a 3 pg lineup when it wont work. One of them has to go period or accept 6th man and that includes both Lavine/White whoever is worse.

Lmao at posters on this board. White with his alligator arms is way better defender than Sato. Lavine is also a better defender than Sato.

[MrSparkle]

In the end, a 3 guard lineup has shown up in the finals exactly 0 times. A really high-level 3-guard rotation is a thing, sure but I can’t think of any champ ever who ran a 3-guard line-up at once and won the 2nd round with a size deficiency like Zach at SF and Coby at SG.

You do need a star wing, and many backups. There is not one champ that played small at one or both wings.

But you know.. the options at 4 are Okoro or Deni. Pretty slim pickings.

[wonderboy2]

I don’t see any wing in this draft starting over Porter. Porter is still young at 26 to. I like Denni though, I think he has a chance to be a good role player. The good news is that whatever happens next year we won’t have to see Sato trying to guard 3s. That was a disaster. Well Sato trying to guard any position was a disaster if I’m being honest.

[wonderboy2]

Wiseman, Edwards, Ball, Toppin, Adjiva. Are all going to be productive players. I hope the bulls pick one of those players. I really like Wiseman, Edwards, And Toppin. My track record with the draft is very good. I’m trying to talk myself in to Hayes but having a hard time. If he goes to the right situation maybe he can be a good starter. But if it was a case of Drafting Hayes or playing Sato I would definitely take Hayes. Hopefully Sato doesn’t see the floor next season.

[wonderboy2]

Completely off topic. Rein this Sato thing in now. ~Ashy